Rob Ford, mayor of Toronto UPDATES

[Rue]

What are you talking about? My original comment was about belief in the plausible versus the implausible; the two examples of the latter I raised being, to quote myself, "drug dealers producing a convincing fake video of Rob Ford smoking crack [and] a conspiracy theory of journalists from two media sources in two countries and now the Toronto Police teaming up to make a false story about a video of Rob Ford smoking crack." You subsequently made the claim that, since the police haven't seen the video, they, to quote you, "have no idea of its authenticity." To have no idea of its authenticity requires a deliberate ignorance of the likelihood of never-before-been filmmakers achieving the complex task of creating a convincing fake video of a mayor smoking crack. That likelihood is exactly what gives one--or, should give one--a good idea about the film's authenticity. The more facts like what we know about these people who are (or were) peddling this video and the complexity of creating a convincing fake video of someone doing something in a specific context, the more the possibility that the video is authentic is proven beyond a reasonable doubt. One could almost say those facts alone achieve that end.

[ed.: punct.]

Your statement is illogical. You can't almost prove something. You either prove it or you don't.

If you claim something exists prove it.

It is illogical to state as you do that one must dispute something never proven to exist.

Come back when you have something. Your inneuendo and second hand information does not "almost" create your assertion.

The law of evidence does not work that way.

You might want to tell giggly who is so convinced he knows the "truth" that in this country due process is a fact and to prove something

to then use it as a basis to find someone culpable of a crime, one must do more than spread inneuendo from second hand information

that has not been corroborated.

If the law of evidence, doctrine of natural justice and Charter of Rights are giggle sources for some, then so be it. I don't find due process giggly. Kind of boring actually.

As much as I may find Rob Ford questionable as a person it is immaterial to proving he committed a crime or conduct that provides a legal basis to remove him from office.

[Rue]

Why would you think she takes drugs?

She had thyroid cancer. Damn fool almost killed herself ignoring it. So yes one would think they gave her something.

Also I have seen her drink coffee in public and that contains caffeine one of the world's most potent and addictive drugs..

Also since she is a communist it would not surprise me if she smokes Cuban cigars.

[g_bambino]

You either prove it or you don't.

I never said anything was proven; try improving your reading skills before adopting haughty and contemptuous tones with others.

Regardless, this should clear up your obvious confusion: Reasonable doubt.

[guyser]

I think the burden is on her to prove otherwise. That's what the media's taught us with the Ford "scandal".

Wow....so convoluted and still SOS .

[The_Squid]

She had thyroid cancer. Damn fool almost killed herself ignoring it. So yes one would think they gave her something.

Also I have seen her drink coffee in public and that contains caffeine one of the world's most potent and addictive drugs..

Also since she is a communist it would not surprise me if she smokes Cuban cigars.

Comparing coffe and cancer drugs to someone who smokes crack is truly idiotic and shameful.

Communist? That's the best you've got?

[Black Dog]

I think the burden is on her to prove otherwise. That's what the media's taught us with the Ford "scandal".

"Media: how does that work?"-Shady

[Guest American Woman]

Comparing coffe and cancer drugs to someone who smokes crack is truly idiotic and shameful.

Communist? That's the best you've got?

It was obviously sarcasm ....

[guyser]

Your statement is illogical.

Lord , look at your own posts.

We'll see in a moment.

You might want to tell giggly who is so convinced he knows the "truth" that in this country due process is a fact and to prove something

to then use it as a basis to find someone culpable of a crime, one must do more than spread inneuendo from second hand information

that has not been corroborated.

Aw...there it is.

No one is talking about charging anyone with a crime, well except for you but you are the only one.

Why is that? Your boy taking too much flak and you dont like it?

You make up these dumb ass scenarios that NO ONE is talking about ...or as one put it earlier..' haughty and contemptuous tones with others.

If the law of evidence, doctrine of natural justice and Charter of Rights are giggle sources for some, then so be it. I don't find due process giggly. Kind of boring actually.

Says the guy that talks about oranges in a lemon thread.

Try and focus FFS

[WWWTT]

maybe he didn't want to get into wallowing with the pigs.

LOL!

WWWTT

[GostHacked]

It was obviously sarcasm ....

Obvious sarcasm is not so obvious sometimes. /sarcasm.

[WWWTT]

Ya that's funny GostHacked!

Oh and by the way,American Woman is talking down to you as if you are incapable of understanding or less intelligent in some manner.

This is abusive and is against the rules.

I got so tired of hearing it from her/reporting her that I put her on my ignore list.

WWWTT

[GostHacked]

Ya that's funny GostHacked!

Oh and by the way,American Woman is talking down to you as if you are incapable of understanding or less intelligent in some manner.

I know. Part of the reason I use the icon that I do. It's something I also get with certain family members, and only a couple friends. Talking down to me. It still is a bothersome but not as much as it used to.

In many cases it is hard to even know where to start to explain what I think at times. With many people being out of the loop in the real world, it's hard to think of a point to start on and build a little. You have to go back quite a bit to start and try to catch the person up. Soon enough you see the person twist their face in confusion, maybe not so much confusion, as their vision of reality has been slightly cracked and they have no idea on how to deal with it.

'What? You mean my government lies to me?' As I pointed out before, might be a product of much conditioning through social structures that have been long established.

Defensive mechanisms include calling the other person names and say they have no idea what they are talking about. Putting fingers in the ears, closing the eyes. Ignoring what has been said and put forth.

The fine print on the icon reads.

'What I thought I'd do, is pretend I was one of those deaf mutes.' Apparently it is a JD Salinger quote from Catcher in the Rye. This line was used as the mantra for the Laughing Man bits in Ghost in the Shell (Stand Alone Complex : First Gig)

I guess it kind of fits here since I am reading all this on digital paper.

This is abusive and is against the rules.

I got so tired of hearing it from her/reporting her that I put her on my ignore list.

WWWTT

http://www.goodreads.com/quotes/629243-i-thought-what-i-d-do-was-i-d-pretend-i-was

Edited June 18, 2013 by GostHacked

[Rue]

I never said anything was proven; try improving your reading skills before adopting haughty and contemptuous tones with others.

Regardless, this should clear up your obvious confusion: Reasonable doubt.

There was nothing haughty or contemptuous in what I stated. You are reading that in to it. Those are emotions you are projecting.

The words are as simple and plain as can be. Step back from the emotions and stop projecting.

I did read your words and now you are engaging in what semantics?

Beyond reasonable doubt by the way is the standard of guilt in criminal law, not balance of probabilities, but you knew that right?

[Rue]

I know. Part of the reason I use the icon that I do. It's something I also get with certain family members, and only a couple friends. Talking down to me. It still is a bothersome but not as much as it used to.

In many cases it is hard to even know where to start to explain what I think at times. With many people being out of the loop in the real world, it's hard to think of a point to start on and build a little. You have to go back quite a bit to start and try to catch the person up. Soon enough you see the person twist their face in confusion, maybe not so much confusion, as their vision of reality has been slightly cracked and they have no idea on how to deal with it.

'What? You mean my government lies to me?' As I pointed out before, might be a product of much conditioning through social structures that have been long established.

Defensive mechanisms include calling the other person names and say they have no idea what they are talking about. Putting fingers in the ears, closing the eyes. Ignoring what has been said and put forth.

The fine print on the icon reads.

'What I thought I'd do, is pretend I was one of those deaf mutes.' Apparently it is a JD Salinger quote from Catcher in the Rye. This line was used as the mantra for the Laughing Man bits in Ghost in the Shell (Stand Alone Complex : First Gig)

I guess it kind of fits here since I am reading all this on digital paper.

http://www.goodreads.com/quotes/629243-i-thought-what-i-d-do-was-i-d-pretend-i-was

Ironic. You don't read what you write. You are engaging in the very thing you criticize others for.

Everyone step back and eat me.Oooooh did I say that. Let me say it again.Everyone step back and eat me. This is a forum for discussion. You and me and every one else needs more bran in the diet. Thois sanctimonious tone we adopt when debating and taking things personally is a crock.

Everyone lighten up. Engage in some laxatives.

[Rue]

Ya that's funny GostHacked!

Oh and by the way,American Woman is talking down to you as if you are incapable of understanding or less intelligent in some manner.

This is abusive and is against the rules.

I got so tired of hearing it from her/reporting her that I put her on my ignore list.

WWWTT

Not at all. You read that into it. Forums are words. The emotions you attach to your interpretations of what is said including being talked to are your emotions no one else's. Give it a thought. Is it possible you feel talked down to because you feel insecure and unsure and then project that back?

Well?

I often send comments deliberately to incite people just to point out how absurd these debates get and they take it seriously? So lighten up. You can say the same to me. She has not talked down to you.No one has. We disagree on certain issues.You, I, none of us should pull this sanctimonious stuff.

Its just a debate.Now insult me, it might make you feel better. For example write back and say eat me. It sure is a heck of a lot better than getting

upset about someone you think is talking down to you. We can't talk down or up. Words on a forum are just words. Without the non verbal language, you can't really even begin to fathom what people think of you personally.So relax. If it makes you feel any better I totally disagree with you but so phackin what. You speak up. You are not hear to kissy poo moi but to debate. So disagree. Its your right.No one is right or wrong. We are all equally jack assable at any given moment.

[Rue]

LOL!

WWWTT

You are making fun of someone because they are fat!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! That is incorrect. shame.

Does this mean I should ridicule Olivia Chow's accent or the fearsome NDP leader's duck walk like he has a cucumber shoved up his keester?

Or what, is Stevie Harper's body off limits or Justin's lisp?

Where will this end? Oh do tell. Someone please write in and protest this. Oh no wait. Its o.k. if its Ford. He's fat. He's pink too. And he has stubby fingers and yellow teeth. Olivia Chow needs dental work too.

[GostHacked]

Ironic. You don't read what you write. You are engaging in the very thing you criticize others for.

The things I have issues with are not content as much as how it is presented.

There was nothing haughty or contemptuous in what I stated. You are reading that in to it. Those are emotions you are projecting.

But yet projecting on me?

The words are as simple and plain as can be. Step back from the emotions and stop projecting.

Like you are projecting on me?

I did read your words and now you are engaging in what semantics?

Would you rather anti-semantics... /sarcasm?

Everyone step back and eat me.Oooooh did I say that. Let me say it again.Everyone step back and eat me. This is a forum for discussion.You and me and every one else needs more bran in the diet. Thois sanctimonious tone we adopt when debating and taking things personally is a crock.

Just tell me what you are really thinking Rue. Don't hold back.

[g_bambino]

There was nothing haughty or contemptuous in what I stated..

Except, of course, the tone. "Come back when you have something... You might want to tell giggly..." are just the most prominent of the fountains of haughtiness and contempt.

I did read your words and now you are engaging in what semantics?

If calling you out on a false claim you made about me is what you define as "semantics"; sure.

Beyond reasonable doubt by the way is the standard of guilt in criminal law...

It is a standard which must, when circumstances require it, be met in order to prove, using evidence, reason, and common sense, that whch is true in that that conclusion cannot be successfully defeated by any rational doubt, But, again, I never said there was currently enough information to conclude beyond a reasonable doubt that the video exists or existed or is/was fake, though it is certainly more reasonable, given what we do know and common sense, to suppose it does/did and isn't/wasn't and less reasonable to suppose it doesn't/didn't or isn't/wasn't.

[ed.: +]

Edited June 18, 2013 by g_bambino

[Rue]

Except, of course, the tone. "Come back when you have something... You might want to tell giggly..." are just the most prominent of the fountains of haughtiness and contempt.

If calling you out on a false claim you made about me is what you define as "semantics"; sure.

It is a standard which must, when circumstances require it, be met in order to prove, using evidence, reason, and common sense, that whch is true in that that conclusion cannot be successfully defeated by any rational doubt, But, again, I never said there was currently enough information to conclude beyond a reasonable doubt that the video exists or existed or is/was fake, though it is certainly more reasonable, given what we do know and common sense, to suppose it does/did and isn't/wasn't and less reasonable to suppose it doesn't/didn't or isn't/wasn't.

[ed.: +]

Woe. Mr. Bambino I respect you a way too much to make a false claim about you and you know that. Debate you yes make a false claim about you know. Nothing you said was false and I never said that. I believe you have an honest difference of opinion as to what makes sufficient evidence to draw a conclusion. No more no less. I say the same thing about Black dog as well on this issue.

No one has made false claims or anything like that. We are debating what is sufficient evidence to be able to say Ford must go or has to go or something to that effect.

As for my comments on giggling I was serious not being contemptuous. I don't think there is anything to giggle about in the sense of one person's opinion being more valid than another on this issue.

Ease up. You know I respect you . As for Ghost he gives as good as he takes.

Ghost I will project this on you-you hate Ford. Kapow.

[Black Dog]

No one has made false claims or anything like that. We are debating what is sufficient evidence to be able to say Ford must go or has to go or something to that effect.

No one but you (I think) has said that getting Ford out is teh endgame here. I'd be happy just with the knowledge that he was caught smoking crack on camera.

[GostHacked]

Ghost I will project this on you-you hate Ford. Kapow.

You are right, I drive a Subaru.

[BubberMiley]

Ghost I will project this on you-you hate Ford. Kapow.

Not that there's anything wrong with that.

[Shady]

Still no video huh?

[The_Squid]

Still no video huh?

Yes, there is a video. There is a still shot of it. It shows Rob Ford hangin' with some drug dealing buddies.

[Shady]

Yes, there is a video. There is a still shot of it. It shows Rob Ford hangin' with some drug dealing buddies.

Yes, the magical video that we all can't ever see. Kind of like a unicorn. How do you know it's a still shot and not just a picture? Oh right, the unicorn thing. Nevermind.