Hudak calls for Welfare reform

[Boges]

Don't see how anyone can disagree with this.

http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/article/1316316--hudak-calls-for-shrinking-cheques-individual-employment-plans-for-welfare-recipients#comments

Able-bodied people who have been on welfare for long periods should see their cheques shrink to give them a stronger motivation to find jobs, Progressive Conservative Leader Tim Hudak says in a new policy paper.

“We want to decrease the incentives to remain on welfare, so they should see their benefits steadily decline,” Hudak said Thursday in the 22-page document.

If elected in a race that could come as early as this spring, Hudak said the Tories would consult with experts in the field on when to start scaling benefits and by how much.

[Michael Hardner]

I think it was the Conservatives who designed Ontario Works. Is there a link to the 22 page program referred to in the article? An idea of how many able-bodied are on welfare now ?

[Topaz]

First of all. SOME of those people are welfare are people who either couldn't collect EI or who can't find a job and I'm not talking about the big cities were jobs may be easier to find. There are pockets of Ontario were unemployment is around 10% I think most tax payers are more compassionate of other people than this politican. Hudak is out to make points with voters and he's more like Harris and we all know what Ontarians went through under Harris. For those of Ontarians, who are lucky to have a good full time job then ok, you'll probably agree with Hudak, until you become one of those welfare people. The Feds change the rules on EI and then some of those people are forced on welfare because they can't find a job or they can only find 20 hour week job. Between the feds and the provinces, Canadians are getting screwed, plain and simple.

[Boges]

First of all. SOME of those people are welfare are people who either couldn't collect EI or who can't find a job and I'm not talking about the big cities were jobs may be easier to find. There are pockets of Ontario were unemployment is around 10% I think most tax payers are more compassionate of other people than this politican. Hudak is out to make points with voters and he's more like Harris and we all know what Ontarians went through under Harris. For those of Ontarians, who are lucky to have a good full time job then ok, you'll probably agree with Hudak, until you become one of those welfare people. The Feds change the rules on EI and then some of those people are forced on welfare because they can't find a job or they can only find 20 hour week job. Between the feds and the provinces, Canadians are getting screwed, plain and simple.

Wouldn't one rather have a job anywhere making $10.25 then making $599 a month on the government doll? Do you have to live in a rural community where there's no work? That's a choice.

And the people that are getting denied EI are repeat users or people that have quit.

Edited January 17, 2013 by Boges

[DFCaper]

I think the incentive should be on the people willing to go back to work. Why would you be willing to get a part-time job if you are on Welfare. Say you work 25 hours a week and stop qualifying for welfare. Your effectively working for $3-$4 an hour. Probably less when you consider the added expenses of going to work. Not much incentive. Especially for the single moms in that situation.

I also always had a philosophy about the people who are content on 599 a month that have no desire to go look for work. That I am happier than hell they don’t work where I work. They are like a far higher tax (in loss hours due to laziness) on the company than what government welfare costs.

A small percentage of our society is going to be non-productive, and that never going to change. That the most vulnerable that will be the unintended victims of these rules will be too high for this to be worthwhile. The only argument I can see is that the welfare rolls maybe growing because of entitlement issues of younger people. That many jobs are below them. Try getting a kid to mow your lawn…

(edited text size)

Edited January 17, 2013 by DFCaper

[Topaz]

Wouldn't one rather have a job anywhere making $10.25 then making $599 a month on the government doll? Do you have to live in a rural community where there's no work? That's a choice.

And the people that are getting denied EI are repeat users or people that have quit.

You mean like seasonal workers? There are many jobs that are only giving 20 hrs and I know of one person who was hired on as full time but instead only got part time and had to travell 2 hrs each way and he ended up in the red because the cost of gasoline! He kept hoping that he would get the full time but he had to quit that job.

[Topaz]

I think its really unfair to some on welfare to be judge by the public as lazy bums. The welfare agents have laws and rules for people who can get it . Just look at the the Food Banks. They are crying for help all the time because there is more people who need it. I like to see Hudak go uncover and live his life for a month as a welfare person and and do it in a part of Ontario that has high unemployment and get a reality check.

[WWWTT]

When I first saw this thread I thought it was about the largest welfare abusers-CORPORATIONS!

But I see it's about personal welfare where almost all of the money is spent in the local economy by the recipients.Very opposite of what is happening in the Ontario corporate world.

Thanksd for pointing to another reason why Hudak has no idea of how to help this province!(can you imagine the havock this guy would cause if he actually had any real power!!!!)

WWWTT

[TheNewTeddy]

Don't see how anyone can disagree with this.

http://www.thestar.c...pients#comments

able bodied =/= able minded

Hope that helps you see how.

[Signals.Cpl]

able bodied =/= able minded

Hope that helps you see how.

I don't think this is targeting people with disabilities of any kind, this seems to target long term recipients who don't seem capable of finding and/or keeping a job.

[Signals.Cpl]

I like to see Hudak go uncover and live his life for a month as a welfare person and and do it in a part of Ontario that has high unemployment and get a reality check.

And if a particular area has high unemployment most people should seek employment elsewhere rather than seating on their behinds and complaining about the economy and the jobs or lack thereof. It is one thing if Canada as a nation is suffering with few to no jobs available and many unemployed but it is a whole different thing when there are jobs available but people choose to sit and live off of welfare rather than following the jobs. This is nothing new, plenty of people from all over the world come to Canada as immigrants every year for better opportunity and more jobs, if they can pick up and move to a whole other country why can't someone pick up and move to another town or city to seek employment?

[eyeball]

I don't think this is targeting people with disabilities of any kind, this seems to target long term recipients who don't seem capable of finding and/or keeping a job.

What is the difference between someone who is disabled and incapacitated again? It seems to me there will always be the odd duck or misfit that just can't get it together but how or why trying to force some ideological moral imperative on them to produce or die is going to make the world a better place escapes me.

[Bonam]

What is the difference between someone who is disabled and incapacitated again? It seems to me there will always be the odd duck or misfit that just can't get it together but how or why trying to force some ideological moral imperative on them to produce or die is going to make the world a better place escapes me.

It's not about forcing a moral imperative, it's about not forcing other people who do work to support said "odd duck or misfit".

[Bryan]

I think it was the Conservatives who designed Ontario Works. Is there a link to the 22 page program referred to in the article? An idea of how many able-bodied are on welfare now ?

I don't know about Ontario, but in Manitoba our welfare rolls more than doubled when the NDP came to power and relaxed the rules about being able to stay on welfare when you are pretty much just avoiding work. If you talk to the social workers, they're very frustrated. They've got people on their caseloads who when handed a guaranteed job, will just not show up. And the govt. doesn't penalize them for doing it. It's nuts.

[Canuckistani]

Wouldn't one rather have a job anywhere making $10.25 then making $599 a month on the government doll? Do you have to live in a rural community where there's no work? That's a choice.

Yes, which is why very few people able to get work at 10,25 an hour are sitting on welfare at 599 a month. Certainly not for extended periods of time.

[Boges]

But that's minimum wage in Ontario every job offers that. Maybe living in the GTA spoils me but I see Now Hiring signs all the time. Now those are service sector jobs but that's gotta pay more than welfare.

[WWWTT]

And if a particular area has high unemployment most people should seek employment elsewhere rather than seating on their behinds and complaining about the economy and the jobs or lack thereof. It is one thing if Canada as a nation is suffering with few to no jobs available and many unemployed but it is a whole different thing when there are jobs available but people choose to sit and live off of welfare rather than following the jobs.

Yep,and when people leave small communities in the bus loads what happens to those small communities???

That's why welfare is there in the first place,not just to help out those who decide to stay in the small towns but to also help the small towns!

WWWTT

[Boges]

Yep,and when people leave small communities in the bus loads what happens to those small communities???

That's why welfare is there in the first place,not just to help out those who decide to stay in the small towns but to also help the small towns!

WWWTT

So welfare is meant to subsidize small town businesses and to keep people that can't find work there, staying there? Sounds like a way to keep generations stuck on the public dole.

[Michael Hardner]

So welfare is meant to subsidize small town businesses and to keep people that can't find work there, staying there? Sounds like a way to keep generations stuck on the public dole.

Small towns are going to be coming back big time in the next 20 years. Work from home will allow people to work hours away from the city.

[Boges]

Small towns are going to be coming back big time in the next 20 years. Work from home will allow people to work hours away from the city.

Or in India

[Michael Hardner]

Or in India

That ship sailed. If your job hasn't already been shipped out and it will be then you should know it by now.

[eyeball]

It's not about forcing a moral imperative, it's about not forcing other people who do work to support said "odd duck or misfit".

Yeah, I feel the same way about military spending.

[MiddleClassCentrist]

But that's minimum wage in Ontario every job offers that. Maybe living in the GTA spoils me but I see Now Hiring signs all the time. Now those are service sector jobs but that's gotta pay more than welfare.

How about a program where the government tries to find people a job as a requirement for single(no kids), able bodied, people?

It would cost more and... people can always find a doctor willing to just write a note for an illness to make themselves "not able bodied" on paper.

I want to help people more effectively, maybe paying more to have more counsellors/job consultants as a requirement?

What about the unemployable? people who have been brought up in such a way that they have very few employability/interpersonal skills to get a job?

I've never been on EI or Welfare, my wife has used maternity and can have weeks where there is no work to be done in her current position so used EI to help meet student debt payments.

Maybe, what we need, is education on the process? My sister-in-law used welfare when she was a student and couldn't find a part time job... she had to check in and give a list of the jobs that she had applied to and talk to someone.

[Boges]

How about a program where the government tries to find people a job as a requirement for single(no kids), able bodied, people?

It would cost more and... people can always find a doctor willing to just write a note for an illness to make themselves "not able bodied" on paper.

I want to help people more effectively, maybe paying more to have more counsellors/job consultants as a requirement?

What about the unemployable? people who have been brought up in such a way that they have very few employability/interpersonal skills to get a job?

I've never been on EI or Welfare, my wife has used maternity and can have weeks where there is no work to be done in her current position so used EI to help meet student debt payments.

Maybe, what we need, is education on the process? My sister-in-law used welfare when she was a student and couldn't find a part time job... she had to check in and give a list of the jobs that she had applied to and talk to someone.

The province offers excellent job finding services. If you can prove you've been looking for work you can even apply to have the province foot the bill for your education. One of the changes to EI is that they'll send you e-mails of job openings in your field.

[Topaz]

I'm surprised Hudak hasn't offered what Harris did, one-way ticket out of Ontario and I think many went to B.C.