"We're all immigrants here!"

[WIP]

I live around many Muslims and they scare me a lot. I am also disabled so I am doubly worried that I will become a victim. I am also very poor and on odsp so I cannot afford to leave here. But those who can afford to flee the cities make the white flight to the suburbs.

So, where do you live? Mogadishu?

I live in a neighbourhood which has many Muslims, as well as recent immigrants and visible minorities.....and I don't feel threatened. Stop watching so much TV and get outside and meet your neighbours. They are likely just trying to make a living and figure out how to raise their kids in a whole new culture.

[betsy]

Are you suggesting that England's problems will come here eventually ? Why ?

I'm still open to discussion if you have evidence. If not, then how is your opinion being formed?

Why wouldn't it? Read the papers...the commentaries....the news! Btw, I just read some of the discussion in the other topic about "Anti-racist..." about cops and diversed groups! Looks like there's some good points being said in that discussion (skimmed only on a couple of posts). I read post #128. .

http://www.mapleleaf...ic=22118&st=120

See, that's already a possible problem over there, it seems.

That attack by those 3 Somali girls against another person (I don't know what nationality) that was shown from the video in the other topic....that's like a gang-like situation. Some immigrants are at odds and fight with another group back in their native land and their problem is also dragged into their new country. When there's a heavy concentration of the same people in one place - it becomes like a territorial thing.

About 20 years ago, my co-worker was telling me he had to cross the street when he walks home (passing an area of Somalis) because he was harrassed at one time.

Problems they have in England didn't just suddenly happen overnight.

And yes, I gave that protest that happened this past summer as an example....why shouldn't I? And yes, it was stated in the news that they did chant death to the Jews, and I saw some placards on Sun News(?)! The excuse the cops(?) or authorities gave was that it's okay since..."they do that annually!" But that's supposed to be a hate speech!

Edited December 31, 2012 by betsy

[betsy]

I do understand though why people from the same culture would tend to group together. Of course they'd want companionship from people who'd understand their ways, especially when they're still struggling to fit in their new home. That's a normal feeling. We have to find the balance though to encourage them to venture out and learn to adapt to a country that peoples mixed races. I think the sooner they integrate......the easier it will be for them.

How? I don't know. That's for those who studied and specialize in that field to come up with ideas.

This new program that lets the provinces hire immigrants based on their needs....I think it's one step in fast-tracked integration/assimilation. I must say that our government is trying....and I also know that things won't change overnight. I'm hopeful.

Edited December 31, 2012 by betsy

[eyeball]

We're all immigrants here

Speak for yourself. I definitely evolved, was conceived and then born right here on Earth and I have the documentation to prove it.

[WIP]

Speak for yourself. I definitely evolved, was conceived and then born right here on Earth and I have the documentation to prove it.

You forgot all about when our ancestors came here from Planet Nibiru. It's true! I heard all about it awhile back on Coast To Coast.

[Moonlight Graham]

I'm not an immigrant. I was born in Canada.

[Sleipnir]

Go ahead and google about racism in public places. Australia has them too. I think multiculturalism is really doing more harm than good.

Multiculturalism is here to stay, countries that has yet to embrace multiculturalism will find themselves forced to do so.

Multiculturalism wants to help immigrants preserve their own identities.

Umm no, multiculturalism is all about bringing different cultures together and coexisting with each other.

Yes we're all immigrants here....but I wonder how many of us would've migrated to Canada if it's still the cold and barren land that it was before the first settlers arrived?

As opposed to what? the hot and tropical land that was before the settlers arrived in Canada?

[betsy]

I'm not an immigrant. I was born in Canada.

Like many others. Re-posting this part from the OP, just in case you missed it.

"We're all immigrants here," counters and abruptly diminishes any "entitlements" by the first settlers - and their descendants - to this land.

I know that the statement has something to do with equality, HOWEVER....that is not usually the case anymore.

Edited January 2, 2013 by betsy

[betsy]

Multiculturalism is here to stay, countries that has yet to embrace multiculturalism will find themselves forced to do so.

You're saying if something got established, there's no point in challenging it? Might as well accept it....since it's already here, and it will spread in other places too? If you'd lived in some parts of Europe during the time of Hitler - will you be saying the same?

Umm no, multiculturalism is all about bringing different cultures together and coexisting with each other.

That's supposed to be the idea. However, it turns out it's only compartmentalizing various pockets of cultures, and serves as a hindrance into having immigrants make an effort to integrate and assimilate themselves with the rest of us.

If you're a minority newly arrived in Canada and housed in this tight community of people who came from your old country - would you have an inclination to move away from the "cocoon-like security" it affords you?

It's promoting the idea of "us" (their group) and "them"....which counters the purpose of establishing a "we."

As opposed to what? the hot and tropical land that was before the settlers arrived in Canada?

And after the tropical came the cold. Would immigrants of modern times be flocking to Canada if Canada were still un-developed and barren just like the way it was before the first settlers came?

There are places that are ripe for settling somewhere in this world. Maybe in the arctic.....or in the amazons....somewhere...How many I wonder are willing to take the high adventure (and risk, and labor) of starting from scratch?

Edited January 2, 2013 by betsy

[betsy]

Do you have a cite for that one ? The protest in Toronto this summer was reported by some to include elements that expressed that opinion but there were no examples of that printed on placards. Nobody is above the law.

I can't find anything with the placards. But there are these, and the argument remains the same.

Canadian Jewish groups are urging the Ontario government to stop an “anti-Semitic hate rally” from taking place on the steps of the legislature next month, saying it’s highly inappropriate for the Shia Muslim organized event to be held on public land, The National Post reported.

At last year’s Al-Quds Day, speakers compared Israel to cancer, waved yellow Hizbullah flags and erected large images of Ayatollah Khomeini, the Iranian leader of the Islamic Revolution who started the day in 1979 to mark the last Friday of Ramadan.

“Ontarians were shocked and embarrassed that a blatantly anti-Semitic event was held at the seat of the provincial government,” Benlolo wrote, pointing specifically to remarks made by Iranian activist Zafar Bangash at last year’s rally.

“At last year’s event, Bangash called for a Jihad against Jerusalem, whereby Islamic Law would be imposed upon Israel; he was in fact captured on video at the rally shouting, ‘Inshallah I see that day when we, the Muslims, will march on Palestine and liberate Palestine…under Islamic law.’ There is every reason to believe this year’s event would feature similar messages of hate,” Benlolo wrote.

http://www.israelnat...ews.aspx/158480

Despite objections from Jewish groups and Canadian lawmakers, officials at Queen’s Park have decided to allow an anti-Israel “Al-Quds” rally to take place on its lawn next week, The National Post reported.

Canadian Minister of Environment Peter Kent said the Sergeant-at-Arms was wrong to approve a repeat of an event that offended Jewish groups the year before.

“Video recordings of last year’s ‘Rally’ document hate speech, racism, anti-Semitism, and support for listed organizations that clearly exceed the limits of Canadian freedoms of free assembly and free speech,” read a statement released by Kent’s office on Friday.

Video footage from last year’s Al-Quds day at Queen’s Park depicted speakers likening Israel to a cancer and waving Hisbullah flags.

http://www.israelnat...ews.aspx/158936

Compared to the trouble that First Nations Chief Ahenakew found himself in, for uttering something that hardly compares to the blatant promotion of hate by AlQuds, clearly there's a glaring double standard!

The Crown's case was that Ahenakew violated Canada's hate legislation during a speech to an FSIN conference about health consent forms and in an interview with Saskatoon StarPhoenix reporter James Parker that immediately followed, in which Ahenakew called Jews a "disease" that started the Second World War.

http://www.cbc.ca/ne...3/ahenakew.html

Edited January 2, 2013 by betsy

[Michael Hardner]

They're different examples so it's not a double standard.

[betsy]

They're different examples so it's not a double standard.

Different in what way?

[Michael Hardner]

You have a leader who was caught on tape making statements vs reports of private individuals making remarks. What do you expect to have happen to the unnamed individuals ?

It's a different situation.

[betsy]

You have a leader who was caught on tape making statements vs reports of private individuals making remarks. What do you expect to have happen to the unnamed individuals ? It's a different situation.

The leader caught on tape - his message was practically very tame compared to Alqud's. Reports of private individuals - by whose report? Journalists!

Well, the Ahenakew was "reported" by journalists, isn't it?

Furthermore, these private individuals weren't being private! They're out there making their hate speeches in public!

So why were they not hauled off to court (like Ahenakew)....and why, oh why were they given permits to do another rally?

Edited January 2, 2013 by betsy

[betsy]

The Alquds rally was calling for jihad! We know what jihad means! Are we supporting terrorists now, too?

[The_Squid]

If you'd lived in some parts of Europe during the time of Hitler - will you be saying the same?

Hitler wasn't a big fan of multiculturalism. His beliefs were more akin to your's.

If you're a minority newly arrived in Canada and housed in this tight community of people who came from your old country - would you have an inclination to move away from the "cocoon-like security" it affords you?

It's promoting the idea of "us" (their group)  and "them"....which counters the purpose of establishing a "we."

And after a single generation, they have been assimilated quite well.

[Michael Hardner]

The leader caught on tape - his message was practically very tame compared to Alqud's. Reports of private individuals - by whose report? Journalists!

Well, the Ahenakew was "reported" by journalists, isn't it?

Furthermore, these private individuals weren't being private! They're out there making their hate speeches in public!

So why were they not hauled off to court (like Ahenakew)....and why, oh why were they given permits to do another rally?

I don't know. Were they identified?

[Michael Hardner]

In any case we've now identified how these were different - feel free to investigate further with the facts I have given you.

[betsy]

I don't know. Were they identified?

They did the call for jihad last year, and echoed Iran's Amajindabad -whatever his name is - hate vitriol! Why were they given another permit? Did you read the two related articles? That's why there was outrage!

As to finding identities - boy, if they managed to track the vandals in BC during the game riots, surely this should be easier than that! A lot of them are not wearing any masks!

Edited January 2, 2013 by betsy

[betsy]

Furthermore....assimilation/integration is a bit more tricky now that the younger generations are being targetted, recruited, and lured into radicalism! Thats one of the alarms that Tariq Fatah is sounding out!

If the immigrant's children grow up among the rest of Canadians - chances of being brainwashed by radicals is diminished. He would've formed ties with other mixed races since childhood. That's why the sooner they get integrated, so much the better. It's also one way of knocking down the walls of racism.

Edited January 2, 2013 by betsy

[Michael Hardner]

I noted that I didn't hear anything about terrorism concerns during this year's NYE celebrations.

[betsy]

I noted that I didn't hear anything about terrorism concerns during this year's NYE celebrations.

Why, what happened?

[Michael Hardner]

Why, what happened?

Nothing happened. There was no general concern, apparently, either. If we're looking for general metrics that take assess the general situation with regards to such topics, that may be one. It certainly seems to be a better measure - for my time - than a single emotional anti-immigrant person ranting on a bus on another continent.

Edited a few times - I didn't know what to call her.

[guyser]

Edited a few times - I didn't know what to call her.

Pathetic and stupid is a good start.

[-TSS-]

If we start going down that route, we could say that everyone living outside Africa is an immigrant in his present whereabouts.