Well someone finally did it! Someone took Muslims to a HRC

[Boges]

http://www.thestar.com/news/gta/article/1288023--woman-denied-haircut-goes-to-human-rights-tribunal-of-ontario

A request for a lunch-hour haircut has turned into a battle over human rights, pitting freedom of religion against a woman’s right not to be denied service based on her gender.

Faith McGregor walked into the Terminal Barber Shop on Bay St. in June to get a haircut — the “businessman,” short on the sides, tapered, trim the top. The shop, like many barbers in Toronto, doesn’t do women’s haircuts. But McGregor, 35, said she wanted a men’s cut.

Shop co-owner Omar Mahrouk told her his Muslim faith prohibits him from touching a woman who is not a member of his family. All the other barbers said the same thing.

“For me it was just a haircut and started out about me being a woman. Now we’re talking about religion versus gender versus human rights and businesses in Ontario,” said McGregor.

She filed a complaint with the Human Rights Tribunal of Ontario almost immediately, saying she felt like a “second-class citizen.”

Mahrouk’s response to the tribunal, provided through his lawyer David Kolinsky, doesn’t dispute McGregor’s complaint but says being forced to cut a woman’s hair would violate his freedom of religion.

First of all I think both parties in this story acting regrettably. But finally a politically correct person has challenged a Muslim's right to religious freedom and of their overt misogyny.

The woman could have easily found a place, like say Supercuts! to cut her hair but NOOOOO!!!! had to take these people to task because they said they can't cut a woman's hair for religious reasons.

Might I ad that I, as a man, would probably be asked to leave a woman's salon if I asked for a simple haircut. Also a men's only barbershop is little different than a women's only Gym.

There is a barber shop in a Shopping Mall in the city I grew up in that wasn't allowed to serve women because it was unfair to the several other salons in the mall that would charge a woman $80+ for the same service, instead of the $20 at the barber shop.

Obviously I think the idea that Muslims can't touch women outside their family is utter foolishness.

Will this finally be the case that makes the Human Right's Tribunal face a paradox that will make it collapse in on itself? Let's hope.

Edited November 15, 2012 by Boges

[Michael Hardner]

I think the man is in the right here. Certain Orthodox Jews also don't touch women. And there are other examples where personal choices of the worker must be respected. Where does it end ? Can you force people to serve you pork ?

[Shady]

The guys completely in the wrong, at least going by other similar rulings.

[jacee]

http://www.thestar.com/news/gta/article/1288023--woman-denied-haircut-goes-to-human-rights-tribunal-of-ontario

First of all I think both parties in this story acting regrettably. But finally a politically correct person has challenged a Muslim's right to religious freedom and of their overt misogyny.

The woman could have easily found a place, like say Supercuts! to cut her hair but NOOOOO!!!! had to take these people to task because they said they can't cut a woman's hair for religious reasons.

Might I ad that I, as a man, would probably be asked to leave a woman's salon if I asked for a simple haircut.

What "women's salon"?

I've never seen one that didn't welcome men too.

It's a tricky case ... and a bit frivolous, imo.

[Boges]

I think the man is in the right here. Certain Orthodox Jews also don't touch women. And there are other examples where personal choices of the worker must be respected. Where does it end ? Can you force people to serve you pork ?

Christians were taken to a HRC for refusing to serve a gay couple at a B&B. Also a man was taken to a HRC for not allowing a Transgendered person to join his Women's only gym. This case seems to follow those precedents.

[Boges]

What "women's salon"?

I've never seen one that didn't welcome men too.

It's a tricky case ... and a bit frivolous, imo.

Because most men have the sense enough not to go. You know the places that charge $100 for a cut, shampoo and blowdry?

[kimmy]

I don't think the law can force this man to violate his religious beliefs. On the other hand, I believe the law does require places of business to make a reasonable effort to be able to accommodate the general public. One would think that a hair business open to the general public would have someone on the premises who could serve a female customer.

-k

[cybercoma]

“We live for our values. We are people who have values and we hold on to it. I am not going to change what the faith has stated to us to do. This is not extreme — this is just a basic value that we follow,” said Karim Saaden, co-owner of the Terminal Barber Shop.

Hey Karim, don't open a barbershop to the public, if you're not able to serve the public.

[Guest]

Christians were taken to a HRC for refusing to serve a gay couple at a B&B. This case seems to follow those precedents.

What was the outcome of that case? It seems like this is exactly the same.

Edited November 15, 2012 by bcsapper

[Boges]

http://www.thestar.c...t-christian-b-b

$4,000 payday for the couple involved.

[guyser]

. One would think that a hair business open to the general public would have someone on the premises who could serve a female customer.

-k

Correct Kimmy

She was offered a haircut by another man in the shop who was not Muslim. He was in the back, she said no and walked out.

Methinks she is gold digging here.

[Merlin]

This is interesting indeed. In the full article it mentions that she isn't seeking any money at all. I am of the opinion that a business should serve all public. targeting your business to one gender or another is fine but shouldn't be able to ban one gender over another.

[Guest]

Correct Kimmy

She was offered a haircut by another man in the shop who was not Muslim. He was in the back, she said no and walked out.

Methinks she is gold digging here.

If she was offered a haircut in the salon then what is the issue?

It seems to me that the business provides a service, not the employees individually. If I phone for a cab, I don't get to pick the driver.

[PIK]

What has happened to my country. Muslims are the biggest b***** whinners going on the planet ,always a excuse. We need to stop this shit before real canadians have no rights left in this country. This shit has gone on long enough, time for people to move where their culture is fully accepted, instead of moving to here and then shoving thier way down our throats.Unfortunitly some canadians don't have the balls to stand up for thier country in case they might offend someone.

Edited April 1, 2015 by Michael Hardner
profanity

[Guest]

Okay, I finally read the artice. It seems that she was offered the haircut at a later date after the action was started.

I don't see any difference between this case and the B&B refusing a room to a gay couple. It seems like the OHRC is up a creek. They would be happy to find for the gay couple, but a lot less happy to find against a Muslim, even if the person bringing the action is a woman.

Should be fun to watch.

[The_Squid]

My Italian barber didn't cut women's hair.... is he a misogynist because of it? As much as I don't like religious dogma, this isn't a legitimate case.

[Canuckistani]

I don't think the law can force this man to violate his religious beliefs. On the other hand, I believe the law does require places of business to make a reasonable effort to be able to accommodate the general public. One would think that a hair business open to the general public would have someone on the premises who could serve a female customer.

-k

It's a men's barber shop. Most places that cater to men won't have somebody on staff that can do women's cuts. There's plenty of those about.

This is a tough one, because it's one favored group (women) against another (minorities). Certainly men who complanied about being excluded from women only gyms got their cases denied.

[Guest]

My Italian barber didn't cut women's hair.... is he a misogynist because of it? As much as I don't like religious dogma, this isn't a legitimate case.

If the woman had said please give me a man's cut, he might have done. Just surmising.

Should Moore's be forced to sell women's clothing? No, but they should sell a man's suit to a woman if she tries to buy one.

Again, just making conversation.

[Guest]

It's a men's barber shop. Most places that cater to men won't have somebody on staff that can do women's cuts.

She wanted a man's cut. He was able to do it, but wouldn't for the sole reason that she was a woman.

[The_Squid]

If the woman had said please give me a man's cut, he might have done. Just surmising.

Should Moore's be forced to sell women's clothing? No, but they should sell a man's suit to a woman if she tries to buy one.

Again, just making conversation.

I can see this point.... but it is such a petty issue that it is hard to fathom why anyone could ever get worked up about this stuff. And, apparently, she was offered a cut by someone else there.... so this case is truly baseless.

Muslims are the biggest bullshitting whinners going on the planet ,always a excuse. We need to stop this shit before real canadians have no rights left in this country.

I guess some people can get really worked up over nothing....

What about my Italian barber? Should he be forced to cut women's hair to prove he is a real Canadian?

[Canuckistani]

What about my Italian barber? Should he be forced to cut women's hair to prove he is a real Canadian?

Would he refuse if the woman asked for a man's cut? Some women wear buzz cuts. No gender specific skills required there. Would he/should he be able to refuse?

This woman was obviously looking for trouble. But, in light of other decisions, she has a case, IMO. What about a Muslim doctor/dentist/podiatrist/physical therapist etc.?

[g_bambino]

Hey Karim, don't open a barbershop to the public, if you're not able to serve the public.

Does that apply to Curves, too? Or Bishop Strachan School? Or Upper Canada College, for that matter?

[ed.: +]

Edited November 15, 2012 by g_bambino

[The_Squid]

...in light of other decisions, she has a case, IMO.

Not when she was offered a cut by another person in the same barber shop....

[Boges]

Not when she was offered a cut by another person in the same barber shop....

If I remember correctly, in the issue of Christian B&B owners they offered to find the couple another room and still lost their case. This is why HRC's are absolute BS.

[Canuckistani]

Not when she was offered a cut by another person in the same barber shop....

The barbershop suggested a solution to McGregor toward the end of August, offering her a haircut from a barber willing to do so.

I'm not sure offering her a cut two months later cuts it.