Hudson Jones Posted November 22, 2012 Author Report Posted November 22, 2012 (edited) It sure looks as if you're trying to, with the "visual effects" you posted and the mention of your newborn baby. It makes one wonder about the genuineness of your presentation. In other words, it comes across more as propaganda than a discussion, just like the fake/recycled photos. #1 - There are thousands of other photos showing children either killed or injured and I'm certain that at least 90% are genuine. #2 - Someone finding out that the photo posted on the internet was from another war, doesn't change the carnage which killed over 40 Palestinian children, injured over 500 of them and killed many of their family members #3 - Based on the above, my presentation in the original post is still valid. Right. Because they're above reproach, right? In case you truly believe that, and somehow missed it, I've posted evidence that would refute that mindset. You have not posted evidence that would refute that mindset. You posted a few examples of how photos were faked, then DogOnPorch tried to tell us that the Gaza beach shelling was staged. He got as passionate about his conspiracy theory as the lizard people theorists. So go ahead and challenge all the reports. Are you going to challenge the 40+ dead babies? Because simply denying these reports exist does not make them go away. They are most definitely helping me shape my views of the event. Yes. Finding a couple of photos and a few stories vs an overwhelming amount of information that say otherwise. You shape your views of the event based on the narrative you're trying to sell to the public. You have already demonstrated that you're not interested in facts considering that you're unwilling to admit to the simple fact that Israel assassinated a man that was set to start a ceasefire. If they have to resort to photos of Syrians to show what Gazans have experienced - well, you figure it out. Who is "they"? You think it was some Gaza PR that released that photo? It couldn't be some person on the internet doing a google image search and then posting it on facebook and claiming that it was from Gaza? The BIG conspiracy! One photo is fake and all of a sudden we should question the thousands of photos, videos and accounts that are coming from Gaza! You're like a birther conspiracy theorist who will battle rational and logic because reality just doesn't suit the narrative. Perhaps you are truly, unbelievably unaware of it, but even in a court of law, people other than those who "pull the trigger" are held accountable. You could start educating yourself by learning about criminal endangerment - knowingly engaging in conduct that creates a substantial risk of death or serious bodily injury to another. You should start educating yourself by looking at international laws, including the targeting of civilians. It's important that you know the basics when trying to debate these issues. Let me help you to get started: International Humanitarian Law - Treaties & Documents Convention (IV) relative to the Protection of Civilian Persons in Time of War. Protocol Additional to the Geneva Conventions of 12 August 1949, and relating to the Protection of Victims of International Armed Conflicts (Protocol I) Edited November 22, 2012 by Hudson Jones Quote When I despair, I remember that all through history the way of truth and love have always won. There have been tyrants and murderers, and for a time, they can seem invincible, but in the end, they always fall. Think of it--always. Gandhi
DogOnPorch Posted November 22, 2012 Report Posted November 22, 2012 You can not prove...seeing that Hamas is willing to shoot its own civilians in the streets...that Hamas didn't move people to areas suspected to be Israeli targets. That NOBODY was allowed to flee the city for safer conditions in the countryside supports the assumption that Hamas were controlling the civilian population for their own purposes. You even towed Hamas's line and suggested it was too inconvenient to save lives via evacuation. Enjoy your bed. Quote Nothing cracks a turtle like Leon Uris.
dre Posted November 22, 2012 Report Posted November 22, 2012 Doesn't matter to the Hamas/terrorist apologists, anything they do is ok. THats completely true for most of the supporters of BOTH sides in Conflict: DIRTFARM HOLYLAND. People in the west have never had to live through anything like what jews or palestinians on the dirt-farm have to live through... for them its basically just a sporting event and something for liberals and conservatives to argue about. Quote I question things because I am human. And call no one my father who's no closer than a stranger
GostHacked Posted November 22, 2012 Report Posted November 22, 2012 Anyone speak Hebrew? Anyone knows what he is saying? Hopefully the translation provided is incorrect ... Quote
DogOnPorch Posted November 23, 2012 Report Posted November 23, 2012 THats completely true for most of the supporters of BOTH sides in Conflict: DIRTFARM HOLYLAND. People in the west have never had to live through anything like what jews or palestinians on the dirt-farm have to live through... for them its basically just a sporting event and something for liberals and conservatives to argue about. The 15km drag. Quote Nothing cracks a turtle like Leon Uris.
Guest Posted November 23, 2012 Report Posted November 23, 2012 The 15km drag. None of them are wearing helmets! Quote
Hudson Jones Posted November 24, 2012 Author Report Posted November 24, 2012 Anyone speak Hebrew? Anyone knows what he is saying? Hopefully the translation provided is incorrect ... Nice find. Bibi:...The Arabs are currently focusing on a war of terror and they think it will break us. The main thing, first of all, is to hit them. Not just one blow, but blows that are so painful that the price will be too heavy to be borne. The price is not too heavy to be borne, now. A broad attack on the Palestinian Authority. To bring them to the point of being afraid that everything is collapsing... Woman: Wait a moment, but then the world will say "how come you're conquering again?" Netanyahu: the world won't say a thing. The world will say we're defending. Woman: Aren't you afraid of the world, Bibi? Netanyahu: Especially today, with America. I know what America is. America is something that can easily be moved. Moved to the right direction. Child: They say they're for us, but, it's like... Netanyahu: They won't get in our way. They won't get in our way. Child: On the other hand, if we do some something, then they... Netanyahu: So let's say they say something. So they said it! They said it! 80% of the Americans support us. It's absurd. We have that kind of support and we say "what will we do with the..." Look. That administration [Clinton] was extremely pro-Palestinian. I wasn't afraid to maneuver there. I was not afraid to clash with Clinton. I was not afraid to clash with the United Nations. I was paying the price anyway, I preferred to receive the value. Value for the price. In the following segment, Bibi boasts about how he emptied the Oslo Accords of meaning by an interpretation that made a mockery of them: Woman: The Oslo Accords are a disaster. Netanyahu: Yes. You know that and I knew that...The people [nation] has to know... What were the Oslo Accords? The Oslo Accords, which the Knesset signed, I was asked, before the elections: "Will you act according to them?" and I answered: "yes, subject to mutuality and limiting the retreats." "But how do you intend to limit the retreats?" "I'll give such interpretation to the Accords that will make it possible for me to stop this galloping to the '67 [armistice] lines. How did we do it? Narrator: The Oslo Accords stated at the time that Israel would gradually hand over territories to the Palestinians in three different pulses, unless the territories in question had settlements or military sites. This is where Netanyahu found a loophole. Netanyahu: No one said what defined military sites. Defined military sites, I said, were security zones. As far as I'm concerned, the Jordan Valley is a defined military site. Woman: Right [laughs]...The Beit She'an Valley. Quote When I despair, I remember that all through history the way of truth and love have always won. There have been tyrants and murderers, and for a time, they can seem invincible, but in the end, they always fall. Think of it--always. Gandhi
DogOnPorch Posted November 24, 2012 Report Posted November 24, 2012 Old news. Jews control the planet. Quote Nothing cracks a turtle like Leon Uris.
Guest American Woman Posted November 24, 2012 Report Posted November 24, 2012 #1 - There are thousands of other photos showing children either killed or injured and I'm certain that at least 90% are genuine. Well, if you're certain ...... Let's recap. One of the two photos you posted in your opening post is recycled - actually a child from Syria, who died in the conflict there. The other photo is of a child who may or may not have been killed by Israel - evidence points to a very real possibility that it was an errant Palestinian missile - as was the case in the child in the photo with Egypt's PM, yet Israel was blamed. And let's not forget the example of the Israeli settler being presented as something it was not, along with the other examples given. I could post more, as I've said, but that I feel to need to verify such things speaks for itself. So how you can be "certain" escapes me, but that you are doesn't surprise me . I, on the other hand, in light of the fakes and set-ups out there that I'm aware of, am in no way certain of any of the propaganda coming out of Palestine - but it does serve Palestine's purpose. What does the truth matter when lies work so well? #2 - Someone finding out that the photo posted on the internet was from another war, doesn't change the carnage which killed over 40 Palestinian children, injured over 500 of them and killed many of their family members Were that many killed? And what about the hows and whys of those who were? #3 - Based on the above, my presentation in the original post is still valid. If you think a post including a fake photo, a lie, is "valid," then it says a lot about you, and quite frankly, it fits in with the Palestinian/Hamas propaganda. That you didn't remove the photo - along with your false claim that "Israel aircraft killed this Palestinian child while playing soccer in Gaza" tells me where you are coming from, and it dictates how I react to what you have to say. Quote
DogOnPorch Posted November 24, 2012 Report Posted November 24, 2012 AW: That you didn't remove the photo - along with your false claim that "Israel aircraft killed this Palestinian child while playing soccer in Gaza" tells me where you are coming from, and it dictates how I react to what you have to say. Heh...when they put the ol' Dog on ignore, I know I'm hitting an exposed nerve. Open wide...(whirring drill sound). Quote Nothing cracks a turtle like Leon Uris.
ironstone Posted November 24, 2012 Report Posted November 24, 2012 This image is breaking my heart. I am the father of a newborn child and I am so incredibly fortunate to be here. Why do I deserve to be here while a father or a mother has to go through this. We need to stop supporting Israel's aggression and start supporting justice and human rights. A Palestinian man from Al Zeitoun holding his one-year-old son, Omar Jihad Mashrawi, who died from his injuries, at Al Shifa Hospital, Gaza City, November 14, 2012. (photo: Anne Paq/Activestills.org) Israel aircraft killed this Palestinian child while playing soccer in Gaza. -- Here we go again. I. TIMELINE: ISRAEL’S LATEST ESCALATION IN GAZA THURSDAY, 8 NOVEMBER Following a two-week lull in violence, Israeli soldiers invade Gaza. In the resulting exchange of gunfire with Palestinian fighters, a twelve year-old boy is killed by an Israeli bullet while he plays soccer. Shortly afterwards, Palestinian fighters blow up a tunnel along the Gaza-Israel frontier, injuring one Israeli soldier. SATURDAY, 10 NOVEMBER An anti-tank missile fired by Palestinian fighters wounds four Israeli soldiers driving in a jeep along the Israel-Gaza boundary. An Israeli artillery shell lands in a soccer field in Gaza killing two children, aged sixteen and seventeen. Later, an Israeli tank fires a shell at a tent where mourners are gathered for a funeral, killing two more civilians and wounding more than two dozen others. SUNDAY, 11 NOVEMBER One Palestinian civilian is killed and dozens more are wounded in Israeli attacks. Four Israeli civilians are also injured as a result of projectiles launched from Gaza, according to the Israeli government. During an Israeli government cabinet meeting, Transportation Minister Yisrael Katz urges the government to “cut off the head of the snake… take out the leadership of Hamas in Gaza.” He also calls for a cutting off of water, food, electricity, and fuel shipments to Gaza’s 1.7 million people. MONDAY, 12 NOVEMBER Palestinian militant factions agree to a truce if Israel ends its attacks. WEDNESDAY, 14 NOVEMBER Israel breaks two days of calm by assassinating Ahmed Jabari, the head of Hamas' military wing. According to reports, at least eight other Palestinians are killed in Israeli attacks, including at least two children. Palestinian militant groups vow to respond. Link I see one side(the Palestinians)that deliberately target civilians and the other side(Israelis)that make every effort to avoid civilian casualties.Is it not typical for Hamas to launch rockets from densely populated civilian areas?Hamas invites civilian casualties within it's territories by these tactics. What exactly did Israel gain by withdrawing from Gaza?Any concessions made by the Israelis are always met by more violence from Hamas. Quote "Socialism in general has a record of failure so blatant that only an intellectual could ignore or evade it." Thomas Sowell
jbg Posted November 25, 2012 Report Posted November 25, 2012 This image is breaking my heart. I am the father of a newborn child and I am so incredibly fortunate to be here. Why do I deserve to be here while a father or a mother has to go through this. We need to stop supporting Israel's aggression and start supporting justice and human rights. Jabari was a legitimate target who was responsible for rocket attacks into Israel. If the rockets stopped, so would Israeli attacks. But that won't happen, because Iran doesn't give a toss about Palestinian children, and neither do Hamas, nor any of the other Islamist groups hell bent on Israel's destruction. Where do I start? The Olympic 1972 Massacre? Kiryot Schmone (sp) (nursery school kids heads ground into the rocks)? The Sbarro suicide bombings? As far as justice and human rights, do we emulate the great examples of Syria? Egypt? Quote Free speech: "You can say what you want, but I don't have to lend you my megaphone." Always remember that when you are in the right you can afford to keep your temper, and when you are in the wrong you cannot afford to lose it. - J.J. Reynolds. Will the steps anyone is proposing to fight "climate change" reduce a single temperature, by a single degree, at a single location? The mantra of "world opinion" or the views of the "international community" betrays flabby and weak reasoning (link).
Guest American Woman Posted November 25, 2012 Report Posted November 25, 2012 According to Col. Richard Kemp CBE, a former Commander of British Forces in Afghanistan and one of the most highly decorated and respected officers in the British Army, Israel Did Everything it Could to Avoid Civilian Casualties. Kemp acknowledges that mistakes can, and will, be made, but says Israel is doing "everything it can to prevent civilian casualties," including taking some "extraordinary steps in a time of war," such as providing fuel, water and electricity, while also dropping leaflets and sending text messages, warning residents of impending strikes. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/arsen-ostrovsky/israel-did-everything-it-_b_2175491.html?utm_hp_ref=tw Quote
jbg Posted November 25, 2012 Report Posted November 25, 2012 According to Col. Richard Kemp CBE, a former Commander of British Forces in Afghanistan and one of the most highly decorated and respected officers in the British Army, Israel Did Everything it Could to Avoid Civilian Casualties. Kemp acknowledges that mistakes can, and will, be made, but says Israel is doing "everything it can to prevent civilian casualties," including taking some "extraordinary steps in a time of war," such as providing fuel, water and electricity, while also dropping leaflets and sending text messages, warning residents of impending strikes. http://www.huffingto...l?utm_hp_ref=tw The Arabs on the other hand are doing their level best to maximize casualties, both Israeli and their own. Eventually they will force an Israeli response which will be tragic for all concerned. Quote Free speech: "You can say what you want, but I don't have to lend you my megaphone." Always remember that when you are in the right you can afford to keep your temper, and when you are in the wrong you cannot afford to lose it. - J.J. Reynolds. Will the steps anyone is proposing to fight "climate change" reduce a single temperature, by a single degree, at a single location? The mantra of "world opinion" or the views of the "international community" betrays flabby and weak reasoning (link).
Guest American Woman Posted November 25, 2012 Report Posted November 25, 2012 The Arabs on the other hand are doing their level best to maximize casualties, both Israeli and their own. I agree. Eventually they will force an Israeli response which will be tragic for all concerned. Unfortunately, that may very well come to pass. Quote
eyeball Posted November 25, 2012 Report Posted November 25, 2012 Things could just as easily drag on the way they have for generations. I don't know if that'll be less fortunate or more...more painful to watch I bet. Whatever the outcome, the key influencing factors will increasingly include fundamental issues of ecological and economic sustainability, not just there but elsewhere too. What happens in the region if and when the countries outside that are contributing money and resources can no longer afford to do so? Given how deeply into human history this conflict reaches has anyone given much thought to the deep future, notwithstanding the usual biblical nonsense I mean? The rise in sea levels alone from global warming will likely either settle or render the issue moot and probably sooner rather than later. Quote A government without public oversight is like a nuclear plant without lead shielding.
Hudson Jones Posted November 25, 2012 Author Report Posted November 25, 2012 (edited) According to Col. Richard Kemp CBE, Kemp is a member of Jerusalem Center for Public Affairs. JCPA is "a pro-Israel organisation, promoting a positive image of Israel, advocating Israels right to exist and fighting anti-semitism." So basically, you're quoting a lobbyist. Why don't you ever post thousands of reports and research done by non-partisan human rights organizations? I can answer that. It's because they don't follow the narrative of the Israeli PR like paid lobbyists do. Edited November 25, 2012 by Hudson Jones Quote When I despair, I remember that all through history the way of truth and love have always won. There have been tyrants and murderers, and for a time, they can seem invincible, but in the end, they always fall. Think of it--always. Gandhi
bush_cheney2004 Posted November 25, 2012 Report Posted November 25, 2012 I'm still waiting for the expert opinion expressed here that either party "deserved it" and "had it coming". I guess that only applies to Americans. Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
eyeball Posted November 25, 2012 Report Posted November 25, 2012 We all got it coming. Quote A government without public oversight is like a nuclear plant without lead shielding.
DogOnPorch Posted November 25, 2012 Report Posted November 25, 2012 non-partisan human rights organizations Best joke of the day. Quote Nothing cracks a turtle like Leon Uris.
segnosaur Posted February 26, 2013 Report Posted February 26, 2013 indeed, israeli zionists keep repeating the myth palestinians don't want peace and negotiations can begin only when the attacks stop...but when there were no attacks... Just wondering... could you give me a time frame where Palestinian attacks (including rocket/morter attacks, suicide bombings, kidnappings, and the use of things like Molotov cocktails) has stopped for a significant amount of time (for example, a minimum of 3 months)? Quote
segnosaur Posted February 26, 2013 Report Posted February 26, 2013 Kemp is a member of Jerusalem Center for Public Affairs. JCPA is "a pro-Israel organisation, promoting a positive image of Israel, advocating Israels right to exist and fighting anti-semitism." So basically, you're quoting a lobbyist. In another thread you used a reference which included quotes from several members of the Palestinian government. Do you consider yourself a hypocrite for condemning one poster for quoting a "lobbyist" while simultaneously quoting people who were just as biased? Quote
jbg Posted February 27, 2013 Report Posted February 27, 2013 In another thread you used a reference which included quotes from several members of the Palestinian government. Do you consider yourself a hypocrite for condemning one poster for quoting a "lobbyist" while simultaneously quoting people who were just as biased? It is very tough to argue with a Jew-hater. Quote Free speech: "You can say what you want, but I don't have to lend you my megaphone." Always remember that when you are in the right you can afford to keep your temper, and when you are in the wrong you cannot afford to lose it. - J.J. Reynolds. Will the steps anyone is proposing to fight "climate change" reduce a single temperature, by a single degree, at a single location? The mantra of "world opinion" or the views of the "international community" betrays flabby and weak reasoning (link).
Peanutbutter Posted February 27, 2013 Report Posted February 27, 2013 It is very tough to argue with a Jew-hater. I dislike Jew haters. Through history one constant has been the fashionable bashing of Jews. Makes me angry. Quote Ah la peanut butter sandwiches! - The Amazing Mumferd
Guest American Woman Posted February 27, 2013 Report Posted February 27, 2013 (edited) Kemp is a member of Jerusalem Center for Public Affairs. JCPA is "a pro-Israel organisation, promoting a positive image of Israel, advocating Israels right to exist and fighting anti-semitism." So basically, you're quoting a lobbyist. Why don't you ever post thousands of reports and research done by non-partisan human rights organizations? I can answer that. It's because they don't follow the narrative of the Israeli PR like paid lobbyists do. Yeah, right; because "non-partisan human rights organizations" have no agenda, eh? Like the CJPME, for example? Any source that doesn't follow your line is somehow suspect, while any and every source following your line is fair-and-balanced, even when they post proven outright lies. After all the lies don't change what's happening, eh? But yeah, do criticize my source instead of refuting what was said. Edited February 27, 2013 by American Woman Quote
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.