Harper, low on trust

[bleeding heart]

Is that a insult? Should I report it? I have been nailed for less.

It was a response to your direct, unqualified, and unequivocal implication that anyone who doesn't vote for Harper is not "smart."

Glass houses and stones, PIK.

Edited November 13, 2012 by bleeding heart

[guyser]

so don't start with the race card, that is very petty. And yes it is his race and persona.

Oh my.

[jacee]

Is "Danish" ethnic" What about German? Hows about the Swedish? Maybe columbian? Maybe even mexican... Please Jacee... Can you point out or direct us to these "Points of fact" you cite! Ohh CITE?

I was under the impression he targetted the ECONOMY! He was clear and open, (dare i say TRANSPARENT) about his immigration reforms!!! And i FULLY back him and Jason Kenney on that....

Ask your favourite MP what ethnic groups ... if it matters to you.

"The economy" can't vote.

Edited November 13, 2012 by jacee

[Moonbox]

Read the link and find out.

Ethnic riding targeting key to Conservatives' 2011 victory:

More than 30 'very ethnic' target ridings led to majority government in 2011

The information you provided is not in question. The infantile conclusions you draw from it, however, are. The fact that the CPC targeted ethnic ridings they thought they had a chance to win does not mean that they didn't have widespread support. Outside of the urban ethnic ridings they won, they basically swept the West, dominated rural Ontario and crushed everyone outside of Toronto/Vancouver, the Maritimes and Quebec. Contrast them with any other party in that election, and you can see that their vote was FAR better spread out among demographic groups.

You can whine and cry about them winning all you want, but this is how a federal system works and it's worked this way for a very long time.

[Destroyer25]

I'm tired of everyone going on about how untrust worthy Harper is, as if he's the devil just waiting for ther perfect moment to unveil his plan for global domination. I't's nothing more than left wing fear mongering, and it works because everyone on the left side of the political spectrum doesn't actually care about the facts.

When Harper first got elected everyone was raving about how he was going to ban abortion and ban gay marriage. Well nothing happened, and they made the excuse that he doesn't have a majority so he can't execute his plan. And then he DID get a majority, and all hell broke lose in the lefty camp as they all started warning of the impending gay marriage and abortion ban, and then nothing happened.

Of course the left either ignored or payed no attention to the numerous occasions on which Harper explicitly stated he had no intention of bringing up those issues.

Harper may not support gay marriage and abortion, which is why I don't like him very much, but he knows that they are losing issues for the Conservative Party because A: The party is divided over it, with only Harper's Social Conservatives and some Libertarians backing him, and everyone else (Progressive Conservatives) being opposed to his stance. And B: It's a losing issue for the party because Canadians as a whole lean left, or Progressive, on social issues.

And why do we care about social issues anyway? The government really has no business in it anyway. Many government functions are illigitmate IMO, and then men who came up with Democracy and Liberalism would be rolling in their graves if they saw our society today, but that's besides the point.

So you can go on about how untrustworthy Harper is, and you can cite polls showing that nobody trusts him or nobody votes for him, but polls are the easiest statistical data (if they can even be called that) to manipulate. It's like Bush in 2000 and 2004. The left wing media was out on the university campuses talking to all the commies QQ about how they don't know how Bush won because they don't know who voted for him. Well he did, twice, so someone must like him. Same deal here. Obviously someone is happy with the job that Harper's Conservatives are doing, because despite all the complaining about him, which on occasion you'll see coming from the right, like myself, people still must be happy with him, because he's still our PM. He won in 2006, he won in 2008, and he won in 2011. So I guess the opposition are a lot less trustworthy, and voters don't have confidence that they'll do a good job.

In the end, the Conservatives are largely doing a good job and that's been reflected in their continued leadership of our country. Our economy is one of the best in the world right now. We've got decent growth, we're takling our deficit, and we're in no threat of economic collapse like Europe and USA are. I wonder why, perhaps because we've got a party who actually has some understanding of economics in power. Can't say that about Obama's Democrats or anyone left of the Libertarian parties like UKIP in Europe.

[cybercoma]

I'm tired of everyone going on about how untrust worthy Harper is, as if he's the devil just waiting for ther perfect moment to unveil his plan for global domination. I't's nothing more than left wing fear mongering, and it works because everyone on the left side of the political spectrum doesn't actually care about the facts.

When criticizing hyperbole, you probably shouldn't engage in it. It makes you look pretty foolish.

[Destroyer25]

When criticizing hyperbole, you probably shouldn't engage in it. It makes you look pretty foolish.

Are you going to refute my argument or are we just going to debate my use of rhetoric? Perhaps it was hypocritical but I'd rather move on and debate the real issue rather than having a pissing match.

[scribblet]

What 'downhill side', there isn't one.

[jacee]

The information you provided is not in question. The infantile conclusions you draw from it, however, are. The fact that the CPC targeted ethnic ridings they thought they had a chance to win does not mean that they didn't have widespread support. Outside of the urban ethnic ridings they won, they basically swept the West, dominated rural Ontario and crushed everyone outside of Toronto/Vancouver, the Maritimes and Quebec. Contrast them with any other party in that election, and you can see that their vote was FAR better spread out among demographic groups.

You can whine and cry about them winning all you want, but this is how a federal system works and it's worked this way for a very long time.

I think it's good the Tories are finally showing interest in cultural communities.

I also think this is how Harper plays the FPTP system to win a majority of seats with less than a majority of the vote.

He's just not a popular leader.

Edited November 13, 2012 by jacee

[Destroyer25]

I think it's good the Tories are finally showing interest in cultural communities.

I also think this is how Harper plays the FPTP system to win a majority of seats with less than a majority of the vote.

He's just not a popular leader.

It's unreasonable to expect parties to campaign where they have no chance, it would be nice if parties were elected based on what they say they'll do for the country rather than what they'll do for interest groups, but that's seldom how it works. The Conservatives have shown interest in ridings dominated by minorties because they feel that they can win them, and this has proven to be true. Harper has more diverse support than many will accept. Immigrants come here seeking economic opportunities and if the Conservatives did more to make it easier for immigrants to integrate economically they'd consistently get their votes.

[Merlin]

I think it's good the Tories are finally showing interest in cultural communities.

I also think this is how Harper plays the FPTP system to win a majority of seats with less than a majority of the vote.

He's just not a popular leader.

When was the last time a party had the majority of the vote?

[Argus]

A poll says that Harper is the least trusted leader in the Americans. Gee, I wonder why? Canadians don't even trust Harper so, if that is true, why do voters vote for him? http://ca.news.yahoo...-172232862.html

No, it actually doesn't. And y'know, call me cynical, but I don't trust you, or polls which don't have their methodology released.

[Argus]

Canadians just aren't as extremist as Harper, and we don't like our MP's forced to be slaves to the party llines dictated by the party moneybags.

Almost all political observers, whether they like him or not, seem to agree that what Harper has done is ruled from the middle. So if that seems extreme to you I would suggest that puts you on the far, far left, or in other words, that makes YOU the extremist.

[Argus]

What he says and what he does about immigration may be different things. It's total nepotism now, with the Immigration minister able to pick and choose immigrants as he pleases. Leaves open the possibility of payoffs/corruption.

Are you suggesting Kenney is letting in his relatives illegally?

Or are you just making it obvious you don't know what the word 'nepotism' even means?

[Argus]

I have grown up and seen it all, decades more than you I expect.

Harper is such a weak and ill-intentioned leader he has to threaten MP's and force them to toe the party line.

That's how dictators operate, not democratic leaders.

Sorry to be the one to enlighten you, oh innocent one, but that's the way ALL political leaders operate, and always have. You think Martin, Chretien, Mulroney and Trudeau didn't threaten people to ensure they toed the party line? You think such threats aren't routinely made in the US by party officials, or in the UK? Grow up.

[Argus]

Pretty insulting to the American electorate, don't you think?

It's also pretty insulting to Obama that you say his value is in his race and persona, rather than his policies.

What policies? He doesn't HAVE any policies, to speak of.

His value is only in that he serves as a roadblock to the Republican policies people don't like.

[Argus]

Read the link and find out.

Ethnic riding targeting key to Conservatives' 2011 victory:

More than 30 'very ethnic' target ridings led to majority government in 2011

Because nobody else does that...

[Guest]

Yeah, I have to agree. It doesn't look to me like Harper has done too much wrong since he came to power. (No politician or political part is perfect)

It drives the left nuts that his "hidden agenda" has stayed completely "hidden".

A truly competent leader who is well respected on the world stage.

[Moonbox]

I think it's good the Tories are finally showing interest in cultural communities.

I also think this is how Harper plays the FPTP system to win a majority of seats with less than a majority of the vote.

He's just not a popular leader.

This is how FPTP works. This is how it works everywhere, and how it has always worked, and that's how ALL of the parties play it, particularly the poorer ones like the NDP, who need to spend their money carefully and narrow down their focus to VERY specific areas and demographics.

As to your observation that he's not that popular a leader, that's true I suppose. Unfortunately for you and your little friends, he was far more popular in the last election than the alternatives!

[eyeball]

Almost all political observers, whether they like him or not, seem to agree that what Harper has done is ruled from the middle. So if that seems extreme to you I would suggest that puts you on the far, far left, or in other words, that makes YOU the extremist.

What almost all people who were polled, whether they like him or not, seem to agree that what Harper has done is rule from the shadows where virtually everything he does and says is a big secret.

It must cheer you to see how seemingly blase most Canadians are about this.

[Fletch 27]

Ahhhhhhhhh yes...The big secret.... One day,,, we shall find out his secret... We will also find the pot of gold and the "precious" thing from the Lord of the rings...... We may even hear that he rides a damn unicorn to parliament too.... Sprinkled in fairy dust and laced with lucky-charms..... Grow Up.... He's just good at his job

[eyeball]

Yup, there's very few who can perform as opaquely as Harper.

[PIK]

I think it's good the Tories are finally showing interest in cultural communities.

I also think this is how Harper plays the FPTP system to win a majority of seats with less than a majority of the vote.

He's just not a popular leader.

The 60% that did not vote could have been mostly cons that figured he won and no reason to vote. Blame the idiots that don;t take a minute of there time and vote, don't blame it on harper.

[jacee]

This is how FPTP works. This is how it works everywhere, and how it has always worked, and that's how ALL of the parties play it, particularly the poorer ones like the NDP, who need to spend their money carefully and narrow down their focus to VERY specific areas and demographics.

As to your observation that he's not that popular a leader, that's true I suppose. Unfortunately for you and your little friends, he was far more popular in the last election than the alternatives!

My "little friends"? Wtf is that personal attack for?

FPTP ... And that's why it needs to be changed.

The system has become entangled in itself and corrupted to the point it is no longer viable democracy.

We have an oligarchy of LibCon power brokers representing big money, not Canadians, and a lot of the big money sucked out of Canada is stashed overseas UNTAXED.

[Moonbox]

'Little friends' is a personal attack? At worst, this is light mockery, and your childish arguments warrant it.

FPTP isn't going to change. It is still, by far, the best form of government for federal democracy. Your problem with the system is that it elected a candidate that you don't like. The alternatives, such as proportional representation, don't work for a country like Canada, where priorities differ greatly by region.

The problem with Canadian politics isn't the system, but the apathy and ignorance of the electorate. When ~40% of the eligible population doesn't even vote, and most of those that do know nothing about the issues or candidates, we end up with the brainless politics we get. The dumber the electorate, the dumber our parliament. If the average person spent an hour a week reading the news, becoming informed of the issues and actually thinking them through critically, things would improve. Unfortunately, people can't spare that time with a busy schedule of Glee and The Bachelor booked up.

Do I like Harper? Hell no. Do I think he plays to the lowest common denominator? Yep! Did I vote for him? Sure did. The alernatives sucked more.