Hal 9000 Posted May 23, 2015 Report Share Posted May 23, 2015 A good point would be that we ought not to rely on fictions, old grandpa/grandma tales, ..., when we make such grandiose statements. It appears that Canada is moving towards that illustrious position that has heretofore been the province of the USA - the stingiest nation on the planet. I don't give a good god damn what the UN thinks our government should be doing. We give $billions of dollars directly around the world. But, Canada and Canadians are not just government. Canadians as citizens give, quite liberally, i'll add to every nation that needs our help. Tsunamis, Earthquakes whatever...Canadians are first in line to help out. I know people who travel as a group to these disaster areas. Oddly, they never seem to encounter Arabs in their journeys...Americans, Israelis, Brits, Aussies, Germans, Dutch and even some Russians - but never Arabs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WestCoastRunner Posted May 23, 2015 Report Share Posted May 23, 2015 I don't give a good god damn what the UN thinks our government should be doing. We give $billions of dollars directly around the world. But, Canada and Canadians are not just government. Canadians as citizens give, quite liberally, i'll add to every nation that needs our help. Tsunamis, Earthquakes whatever...Canadians are first in line to help out. I know people who travel as a group to these disaster areas. Oddly, they never seem to encounter Arabs in their journeys...Americans, Israelis, Brits, Aussies, Germans, Dutch and even some Russians - but never Arabs. You should do a bit of research and be prepared to corroborate your statements before you post. "The United Arab Emirates has been crowned as the world’s top humanitarian donor of the year 2013, after it offered 5.89 billion US dollars in foreign aid that year, reaching the most vulnerable communities and the least developed societies in more than 140 countries around the world through 38 donor groups.The United Arab Emirates has been crowned as the world’s top humanitarian donor of the year 2013, after it offered 5.89 billion US dollars in foreign aid that year, reaching the most vulnerable communities and the least developed societies in more than 140 countries around the world through 38 donor groups." "The United Arab Emirates was also particularly keen on supporting countries in the Middle East and North Africa region who have been strongly affected by turmoil in the past few years, including Egypt, Libya, Yemen, Jordan, the occupied Palestinian territories and Lebanon." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bonam Posted May 23, 2015 Report Share Posted May 23, 2015 The point I made is that fat people complain about donating 10 cents to help the starving. Do you have a problem with that ? If so, how much do you weigh ? Probably. This could be one: http://www.mapleleafweb.com/forums/topic/22593-canadian-military-or-foreign-aid/#entry896040 First... 10 cents? 0.7% of GDP of Western countries, which is what was being discussed in my post you quoted, is approximately $200 billion dollars. So you're only off by a factor of 2 trillion times regarding what I said. But it's ok, I understand, math may not be your strong suit, what's a few trillion times error between friends anyway right? Second... fat people? Given that you point to my post as an example of a "fat person not wanting to donate 10 cents", I assume you have reason to believe I am "fat"? Care to share? As facilitator, you should be aware that personal insults are against the rules here, by the way. Third... the quoted post is completely unrelated to the topic here. So besides every aspect of your post being a blatant lie, do you have anything useful to say here? Frankly, this series of posts is behavior unbecoming of any forum member here, let alone a supposed "facilitator". Why don't you go back to the threads where you mindlessly defend religious oppression under the guise of "accommodation" or something, at least you can do that without violating the forum rules. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hal 9000 Posted May 23, 2015 Report Share Posted May 23, 2015 You should do a bit of research and be prepared to corroborate your statements before you post. "The United Arab Emirates has been crowned as the world’s top humanitarian donor of the year 2013, after it offered 5.89 billion US dollars in foreign aid that year, reaching the most vulnerable communities and the least developed societies in more than 140 countries around the world through 38 donor groups.The United Arab Emirates has been crowned as the world’s top humanitarian donor of the year 2013, after it offered 5.89 billion US dollars in foreign aid that year, reaching the most vulnerable communities and the least developed societies in more than 140 countries around the world through 38 donor groups." "The United Arab Emirates was also particularly keen on supporting countries in the Middle East and North Africa region who have been strongly affected by turmoil in the past few years, including Egypt, Libya, Yemen, Jordan, the occupied Palestinian territories and Lebanon." No, you're right. I suppose their are a few forward thinking Arab countries who give money to certain groups. I should've separated my post by paragraphs because government and people are 2 different areas. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WestCoastRunner Posted May 23, 2015 Report Share Posted May 23, 2015 No, you're right. I suppose their are a few forward thinking Arab countries who give money to certain groups. I should've separated my post by paragraphs because government and people are 2 different areas. Uh, no... "This achievement of the UAE was only made possible thanks to several governmental and non-governmental bodies who are thoughtfully dedicated to alleviating suffering and promoting development around the world." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Je suis Omar Posted May 23, 2015 Report Share Posted May 23, 2015 (edited) All of that occurred because those particular people are frankly stupid, uninformed, lack critical analysis skills, and blindly accept the propaganda fed to them by government and their media apologists. Being a patriot doesn't mean you have to accept everything your government says or does, in fact it's quite the opposite. Omar: That might be a legitimate excuse if it happened once or twice. That's not the case. Do you have any idea how many countries the USA has invaded and raped and pillaged? No, that isn't hyperbole. That is an accurate description of USA in each and every illegal invasion. I never said nor do I believe that certain uncivilized behaviours of the West past and present were morally just, ie: treatment of natives, and exploiting those in weaker countries for our own wealth. Omar: "uncivilized behaviours". Is that how you would describe the Holocaust, Stalin's actions? What I did say was that the West is still among the most civilized societies to ever exist in human history. I never said the West was perfectly civilized. The fact that the West has done horrible things doesn't disqualify them from being the most civilized civilization ever (along with a few other Eastern cultures ie: Japan) because, as I said, every single other major non-Western society in the world would have done similar or worse in our position of power. Omar: Using this carefully contrived language, as you do, is the equivalent of making excuses for war criminals and terrorists that are every bit the equal of the nazis, in numbers dead and the inherent depravity of the actions themselves. Edited May 23, 2015 by Je suis Omar Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Je suis Omar Posted May 23, 2015 Report Share Posted May 23, 2015 I don't give a good god damn what the UN thinks our government should be doing. We give $billions of dollars directly around the world. But, Canada and Canadians are not just government. As has been pointed out to you a number of times, Hal, you have to rely on more than old wives tales. If you did some research you would find that Canada is indeed approaching "the USA the stingiest country in the world" levels. When one considers the trillions upon trillions of dollars of wealth the USA has stolen from poor countries over the last couple of centuries, don't you think it makes sense that they would want to be generous instead of stingy? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbg Posted May 23, 2015 Report Share Posted May 23, 2015 That causes everyone to unthinkingly accept ludicrous notions like, "they hate our freedoms". That causes vast swaths of Americans and Canadians to be so ignorant and unempathetic that they absolutely refuse to entertain the completely logical idea (supported by CIA/pentagon officials) that there are people who have finally decided to retaliate against the USA for their century plus of murder and mayhem. These USA agencies were saying that it was something that should have been expected. I am not going to respond point by point to this and the remainder of the incoherent posts. But can you spell out what "murder and mayhem" to which you are referring? Why would Canada and the U.S. be interested in wasting away innocent people for no reason? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbg Posted May 23, 2015 Report Share Posted May 23, 2015 What is more extremist than two centuries of USA terrorism, the raping and plundering of numerous countries, countless vicious war crimes, ... ? More spam and slogans. "Raping and plundering"? "Countless vicious war crimes"? Do you think in slogans? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbg Posted May 23, 2015 Report Share Posted May 23, 2015 I don't give a good god damn what the UN thinks our government should be doing. We give $billions of dollars directly around the world. But, Canada and Canadians are not just government. Canadians as citizens give, quite liberally, i'll add to every nation that needs our help. Tsunamis, Earthquakes whatever...Canadians are first in line to help out. I know people who travel as a group to these disaster areas. Oddly, they never seem to encounter Arabs in their journeys...Americans, Israelis, Brits, Aussies, Germans, Dutch and even some Russians - but never Arabs. Did it occur to you that ".Americans, Israelis, Brits, Aussies, Germans, Dutch and even some Russians" may, according to some posters, be "raping and plundering" in disaster areas? </sarcasm> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Je suis Omar Posted May 23, 2015 Report Share Posted May 23, 2015 I am not going to respond point by point to this and the remainder of the incoherent posts. But can you spell out what "murder and mayhem" to which you are referring? Why would Canada and the U.S. be interested in wasting away innocent people for no reason? Coming to grips with these U.S./CIA activities in broad numbers and figuring out how many people have been killed in the jungles of Laos or the hills of Nicaragua is very difficult. But, adding them up as best we can, we come up with a figure of six million people killed-and this is a minimum figure. Included are: one million killed in the Korean War, two million killed in the Vietnam War, 800,000 killed in Indonesia, one million in Cambodia, 20,000 killed in Angola ... and 22,000 killed in Nicaragua. These people would not have died if U.S. tax dollars had not been spent by the CIA to inflame tensions, finance covert political and military activities and destabilize societies. - John Stockwell Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbg Posted May 23, 2015 Report Share Posted May 23, 2015 Coming to grips with these U.S./CIA activities in broad numbers and figuring out how many people have been killed in the jungles of Laos or the hills of Nicaragua is very difficult. But, adding them up as best we can, we come up with a figure of six million people killed-and this is a minimum figure. Included are: one million killed in the Korean War, two million killed in the Vietnam War, 800,000 killed in Indonesia, one million in Cambodia, 20,000 killed in Angola ... and 22,000 killed in Nicaragua. These people would not have died if U.S. tax dollars had not been spent by the CIA to inflame tensions, finance covert political and military activities and destabilize societies. - John Stockwell These are simply wild accusations. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Je suis Omar Posted May 23, 2015 Report Share Posted May 23, 2015 These are simply wild accusations. Why would a completely uniformed individual say that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moonlight Graham Posted May 24, 2015 Report Share Posted May 24, 2015 Omar: That might be a legitimate excuse if it happened once or twice. That's not the case. Do you have any idea how many countries the USA has invaded and raped and pillaged? No, that isn't hyperbole. That is an accurate description of USA in each and every illegal invasion. What do you mean "legitimate excuse"? I'm not making excuses for US foreign policy. They get away with what they do because, time and again, most of the voting-age adults in that country are uneducated, uninformed, unintelligent sheep who put their heads in the sand to their government's immoral foreign policies. Omar: "uncivilized behaviours". Is that how you would describe the Holocaust, Stalin's actions? One of the words, yes. The opposite of "civilized" is "uncivilized", meaning "savage" or "barbaric". Omar: Using this carefully contrived language, as you do, is the equivalent of making excuses for war criminals and terrorists that are every bit the equal of the nazis, in numbers dead and the inherent depravity of the actions themselves. If you're going to accuse me of "contrived language" and, yet again, completely take my words out of context while trying to repeatedly accuse me of things I never said, including attributing quotes to me I never said, then I'm not going to debate you any longer. You need to learn how to debate honestly like a logical, intelligent, mature adult, and not this paranoid "jump to conclusions" nonsense. You're reading a lot of things into my words that don't exist. Your debating technique is extremely offensive & insulting to me. Here's a start, learn & practice them all: https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Je suis Omar Posted May 24, 2015 Report Share Posted May 24, 2015 Moonlight: One of the words, yes. The opposite of "civilized" is "uncivilized", meaning "savage" or "barbaric". Omar: I think that if I were to describe the holocaust as "uncivilized" it would be met by many reactions, none of them warm and receiving. But that's just my take on it. Moonlight: including attributing quotes to me I never said, then I'm not going to debate you ... Omar: please post just one for me, Graham, and I'll readily apologize. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted May 24, 2015 Report Share Posted May 24, 2015 What do you mean "legitimate excuse"? I'm not making excuses for US foreign policy. They get away with what they do because, time and again, most of the voting-age adults in that country are uneducated, uninformed, unintelligent sheep who put their heads in the sand to their government's immoral foreign policies. Nope....many are very educated and well informed, supporting their government and policies, domestic and foreign. Keep your moral superiority in Canada, while still buying bombs from the U.S. and dropping them on people far across the sea. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Je suis Omar Posted May 24, 2015 Report Share Posted May 24, 2015 I am not going to respond point by point to this and the remainder of the incoherent posts. But can you spell out what "murder and mayhem" to which you are referring? Why would Canada and the U.S. be interested in wasting away innocent people for no reason? Killing Children Is the All-American Way by Finian Cunningham / December 22nd, 2012 Madeleine Albright, the American ambassador the United Nations, was asked on nationwide television in 1996 if the death of half a million Iraqi children from US war and sanctions on that country was a price worth paying. Albright replied: This is a very hard choice, but the price we think is worth it. That was before the so-called Second Persian Gulf War that began in 2003 with American air force shock and awe, followed by nearly nine years of illegal military occupation an occupation that included the use of nuclear munitions and white phosphorus on the civilian populations in Fallujah and elsewhere, and involved countless massacres of families and children by US helicopter gunships and troopers. Since Albrights infamous admission, the death toll of Iraqi children from American military crimes can be safely assumed to run into multiples of what she candidly thought was a price worth paying more than 16 years ago. Earlier this week when President Barack Obama was offering condolences to the families of the 20 children shot dead in an elementary school in Newtown, Connecticut, he said: Whatever portion of sadness that can share with you to ease your heavy load, we will gladly bear it. Newtown, you are not alone. Indeed, Newtown is not alone. Children are slaughtered every week by Americans all over the world on the watch of Commander-in-Chief Barack Obama and his White House predecessors. One study by James Lucas in 2007 put the death toll of civilians from American wars and sponsored conflicts in 37 countries since the Second World War at up to 30 million lives. The proportion of that figure corresponding to child deaths is not known but if the casualty rate of Iraq is anything to go by, we can estimate that the number of children killed by American militarism and covert wars since WWII is easily in the order of 20 million that is, a million times the carnage last week in Connecticut. The countries where these American-inflicted deaths occurred include: Korea, Vietnam, Laos, Cambodia, Angola, Congo, Afghanistan, Pakistan, El Salvador, Guatemala and Nicaragua. They also include Iran during the American-backed Iraq war of 1980-88. Every continent on Earth has felt the American hand of death. http://dissidentvoice.org/2012/12/killing-children-is-the-all-american-way/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbg Posted May 24, 2015 Report Share Posted May 24, 2015 Je Suis Omar, responding to this post (link), can you find Ms. Albright's acknowledgement of those kind of casualty levels first, and then I'll try to put it in context. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Topaz Posted May 25, 2015 Report Share Posted May 25, 2015 Hey BC, maybe you can't handle the truth of 9/11 or the invasion of Iraq but I listened to a former CIA Asset on the weekend and because she was going to testify in the 9/11 committee the Cheney/Bush gang instead arrested her and put her in a military prison in Texas on dreamed up charges and drugged her. She was pardon by a judge and President Obama and she said that the invasion of Iraq didn't need to happen because she had made headway with Hussein but that was NOT the planning of Cheney and Bush and because of that, over 5000 US soldiers died and how many are maimed for life??? I have a feeling Canada has the same kind of leader in Harper and should be charge with war crimes! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted May 26, 2015 Report Share Posted May 26, 2015 (edited) Hey BC, maybe you can't handle the truth of 9/11 or the invasion of Iraq but I listened to a former CIA Asset on the weekend Hey Topaz...maybe you haven't heard....so what ? "I was listening or heard something" (on American [fill in the blank]) is one of your favourite openings, and it is still cute ! No linkee ??? Edited May 26, 2015 by bush_cheney2004 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cybercoma Posted May 28, 2015 Report Share Posted May 28, 2015 Mapping values ? That sounds interesting but there are such a thing as universal values which would probably include caring about our planet. I believe one of the reasons Communism resounded internationally is this perspective. Universal values is a bold claim. There are people on this forum who don't value caring about our planet, so that right away contradicts that it's a "universal" value. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Hardner Posted May 28, 2015 Report Share Posted May 28, 2015 Universal values is a bold claim. There are people on this forum who don't value caring about our planet, so that right away contradicts that it's a "universal" value. It's as bold claim that they exist ? Can you not think of some universal human values ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cybercoma Posted May 28, 2015 Report Share Posted May 28, 2015 It's as bold claim that they exist ? Can you not think of some universal human values ?Not a one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eyeball Posted May 29, 2015 Report Share Posted May 29, 2015 (edited) Universal values is a bold claim. There are people on this forum who don't value caring about our planet, so that right away contradicts that it's a "universal" value. How does one explain NIMBYISM then? I doubt if you'll find many regions on the planet where everyone eschews that specific value. I bet enough people in any given region do share it and in sufficient numbers that if more local democratic autonomous authority and responsibility for making decisions existed it would result in better decisions. Apply universally and voila, Bob's your uncle. Of course this is all academic in the government's-gone-wild world we currently live in. That has to drive off a cliff or someone has to go back into the past and alter the timeline or something. Edited May 29, 2015 by eyeball Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bryan Posted May 29, 2015 Report Share Posted May 29, 2015 There are people on this forum who don't value caring about our planet Who? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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