Ontario Teachers Strike

[socialist]

if the Liberals don't give teachers what we deserve then there will be a strike. we are tired of governments who have no clue what we have to go through. mcguinty better quickly realize how much support the teachers in ontario gave him in this last election. thank goodness we have awesome teacher unions in this province looking out for teachers and students. i'm disgusted.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/start-of-ontarios-school-year-in-jeopardy-if-labour-talks-stall/article4449756/

[CPCFTW]

Don't tell me that you're a teacher?

Well there goes my hope for Canada's future..

[socialist]

Don't tell me that you're a teacher?

Well there goes my hope for Canada's future..

I have one more semester then I will be a public school teacher. You make an ignorant remark so you must be jealous. Public schools are changing. I want to be part of that change and have kids exposed to my views of social justice and environmental issues.

[Moonlight Graham]

thank goodness we have awesome teacher unions in this province looking out for teachers and students. i'm disgusted.

Teacher unions don't look out for students, only teachers. If what the unions do also happen to benefit students it's usually only by coincidental byproduct.

Not going to school because of a strike does not benefit students. Wage increases may benefit students if it brings in better talent to teach, but this is only a coincidental byproduct of self-serving union demands.

Teacher's shouldn't be able to strike during the school year if it leads to kids missing education.

[Signals.Cpl]

I have one more semester then I will be a public school teacher. You make an ignorant remark so you must be jealous. Public schools are changing. I want to be part of that change and have kids exposed to my views of social justice and environmental issues.

Too bad you don't know what social justice means...kinda hard to teach someone when you yourself lack the knowledge.

Edited August 1, 2012 by Signals.Cpl

[bleeding heart]

Too bad you don't know what social justice means...kinda hard to teach someone when you yourself lack the knowledge.

Yeah. I think I'm going to start teaching particle physics, and maybe in my spare time, high finance.

That'll improve society tremendously, no doubt.

[Boges]

I don't actually think the McGuinty government is all that wrong here.

I just enjoy seeing his allies turn on him are trying to make his life miserable.

The Catholic deal made it very difficult for the other boards to make deals without concessions.

Edited August 1, 2012 by Boges

[socialist]

Teacher unions don't look out for students, only teachers. If what the unions do also happen to benefit students it's usually only by coincidental byproduct.

Not going to school because of a strike does not benefit students. Wage increases may benefit students if it brings in better talent to teach, but this is only a coincidental byproduct of self-serving union demands.

Teacher's shouldn't be able to strike during the school year if it leads to kids missing education.

If teachers are going to get screwed around and not be treated fairly then going on strike during the school year is the only way to et the public's attention. You don't know anything about bargaining so don't try to pretend to be an expert.

[Shady]

If teachers are going to get screwed around and not be treated fairly then going on strike during the school year is the only way to et the public's attention. You don't know anything about bargaining so don't try to pretend to be an expert.

You should hate the new contract agreed to by the teachers union. Supply teachers that get hired full-time now hired soley on seniority instead of merit. It'll be 10 years before you get a full-time job now.

[Boges]

You should hate the new contract agreed to by the teachers union. Supply teachers that get hired full-time now hired soley on seniority instead of merit. It'll be 10 years before you get a full-time job now.

Not to mention the retirees that double-dip by collecting their pension and still do supply teaching duty.

[MiddleClassCentrist]

Teacher unions don't look out for students, only teachers. If what the unions do also happen to benefit students it's usually only by coincidental byproduct.

When you break down unionized vs. non-unionized, students in unionized environments outperform those that come from a non-unionized teaching environment. That's an inconvenient truth for ontario teacher haters.

[MiddleClassCentrist]

Not to mention the retirees that double-dip by collecting their pension and still do supply teaching duty.

Now, I'm of the belief that they should just retire.

But...

In most professions you can retire, and then come back as a "consultant". Why should teaching be any different?

[Boges]

Now, I'm of the belief that they should just retire.

But...

In most professions you can retire, and then come back as a "consultant". Why should teaching be any different?

Sure they have the right to do what they're doing. Just sucks for all these young teachers that are coming up expecting a nice job coming out of school.

Perhaps Teacher's Colleges should take less students since the demand for teachers was waned. . . Oh wait they'll never do that.

Edited August 1, 2012 by Boges

[MiddleClassCentrist]

You should hate the new contract agreed to by the teachers union. Supply teachers that get hired full-time now hired soley on seniority instead of merit. It'll be 10 years before you get a full-time job now.

My wife has been trying to get in. The degree of nepotism is atrocious. A friends daughter graduates and gets hired over someone who actually makes a good teacher. Can't even get on the supply list because it's being filled with relatives and friends.

In this job shortage you'd think that system would benefit because only star teachers would get hired... yet the people getting the jobs aren't the stellar candidates who work well with difficult kids, or develop a strong repor to be able to deal consequences and still maintain a working relationship with kids. They have human kinetics (useless) degrees and know an administrator somehow, or go get drunk with other teachers.

Seniority at least means that the person who has been trying to get in must be considered before that family member that just graduated. That is why the Catholic union argued for it. Their system is even worse for nepotism.

[MiddleClassCentrist]

Sure they have the right to do what they're doing. Just sucks for all these young teachers that are coming up expecting a nice job coming out of school.

Perhaps Teacher's Colleges should take less students since the demand for teachers was waned. . . Oh wait they'll never do that.

That's never in the government's interest to do so.

Keeping enrolment high keeps anti-union sentiment strong with the younger ones who come in and see phys ed teachers who work 3 hours and 45 minutes a day, don't coach and take home over 90k (when they MIGHT make 40k in private sector job they are qualified for). While the younger teacher is willing to take difficult classes and enjoys coaching.

Edited August 1, 2012 by MiddleClassCentrist

[Topaz]

I may be wrong here, but I do believe that not all teachers make the same wage and different school boards pay different rates??? So again, one can't say all teachers make this pay, they don't. Another question, what's stopping teachers to become private teachers for parents who want "home school" education? I think these kids are ahead of the regular kids that go to school.

[Shady]

Now, I'm of the belief that they should just retire.

But...

In most professions you can retire, and then come back as a "consultant". Why should teaching be any different?

Because its a public sector job paid with tax dollars. If a private sector company wants to do that on their own dime, that's a different matter.

[Boges]

I may be wrong here, but I do believe that not all teachers make the same wage and different school boards pay different rates??? So again, one can't say all teachers make this pay, they don't.

I guess that's why Dalton punted it over to the boards to make these deals and if they don't he'll go Rob Ford and legislate terms, they can strike if they want. (pst that strategy worked for Rob Ford)

[MiddleClassCentrist]

I may be wrong here, but I do believe that not all teachers make the same wage and different school boards pay different rates??? So again, one can't say all teachers make this pay, they don't. Another question, what's stopping teachers to become private teachers for parents who want "home school" education? I think these kids are ahead of the regular kids that go to school.

Different school boards have slightly different compensation rates. Top pay is now over 90k in all boards.

Teacher pay starts fairly low for a professional with a degree and professional certification - around 45k.

Their pay increases gradually to get to 90k after between 10 to 13 years depending on the board.

To reach top pay is not difficult by any means (4 year honours degree + an extra teacher course puts you on the grid to 90k+), you don't even need to be actively teaching your honours speciality to receive top pay. Elementary is even more wish washy for how pay level is assigned because teachers aren't assigned by subject speciality, IMO elementary especially needs to be fixed.

[bleeding heart]

If a private sector company wants to do that on their own dime, that's a different matter.

But they would never, because the "free market" is inherently "practical" and works on "merit."

I see you've abandoned these cherished myths, finally.

[Shady]

But they would never, because the "free market" is inherently "practical" and works on "merit."

I see you've abandoned these cherished myths, finally.

Huh? Private companies keep people on as consultants. It all depends on the business. Either way, I don't care what they do on their own dime.

[bleeding heart]

Huh? Private companies keep people on as consultants. It all depends on the business. Either way, I don't care what they do on their own dime.

If the consultants are legitimately required, it's irrelevant if it's public or private sector.

[Shady]

If the consultants are legitimately required, it's irrelevant if it's public or private sector.

That's the whole point. You don't need retired teachers sticking around to supply teach and double pension dip. There are plenty of new teachers looking for jobs. If a private company wants to do that, and waste their own money, I don't care.

[punked]

That's the whole point. You don't need retired teachers sticking around to supply teach and double pension dip. There are plenty of new teachers looking for jobs. If a private company wants to do that, and waste their own money, I don't care.

Here we agree.

[bleeding heart]

If a private company wants to do that, and waste their own money, I don't care.

I agree with you wholeheartedly. Private entities can waste money...and public entities should never do so.

All I was saying is the fact that we all agree that private entities waste money is the beginning of the undermining of the (often-stated) beleif that the private sector is always inherently practical, always merit-based...which of course brings into stark relief all sorts of questions about wages, corporate behaviour, and on and on.

Of course, those of us who have spent dcecades working solely in the private sector already are fully aware that things such as "merit" and "fairness" and "practicality" are religious beliefs, not factual observations.