Ontario Teachers Strike

[socialist]

I was in a gifted program for a year, because I was "bright". Long story short, I never really got any support. The school would just note how they love to have the top math student in grade 6 in the province (PEI) but all I got was bored. Frankly, throughout all of Jr. High, high school, and 3 years of university I'd sit and doodle for the entire class, and still pass cause I was "smart"

I learned that you can get by in life without any effort. I learned that in my formative years and now I have an entire team of shrinks trying to reverse that damage.

The "education system" did me far more harm than good.

edit

I should note that in Grade 5 I was in the gifted program, and at that point, I left Ontario for PEI, where in Grade 6 I scored #1 in math on PEI in standardized testing. PEI's education system is what failed me, but Ontario's failure to see that I knew my stuff until Grade 5 is also part of the problem.

double edit

I should also note that I was always the "Smartest in the class" in every class I was ever in; except, in the gifted school, where I was "the dumb one".

Just in case anyone thinks I'm trying to claim I'm some kinda of mensa genius. I'm officially one step below mensa (according to my IQ test when I was in grade 3) mensa is top 1%, I was told I am top 2%

i don't buy your self pity story. public schools challenge all students of all levels. your claim is ridiculous. i can tell you and wild bill haven't been in a public school in decades. the system isn't like it was back in the 70s and 80s. it's way better now.

[TheNewTeddy]

public schools challenge all students of all levels. your claim is ridiculous.

It is not, was not for me, and my "story" is true. I'm quite willing to tell you where I went to school if you actually wanted to "check up" on my "story".

Gifted doesn't mean they aren't lazy

This.

I am by self admission, lazy. I learned to be lazy thanks to a faulty school system and faulty parenting.

I have met average people who did well scholastically by dint of hard work and effort

My roomate is one of these. We are about as smart as one another. All my smarts are natural. I have not read a book in over a decade. She meanwhile reads a dozen books a month (she is going for her PhD). She is always working on something for school, where as I never handed in one project on time. Now, we are evenly matched.

[Wild Bill]

i don't buy your self pity story. public schools challenge all students of all levels. your claim is ridiculous. i can tell you and wild bill haven't been in a public school in decades. the system isn't like it was back in the 70s and 80s. it's way better now.

Well, I raised two daughters. One just completed 4 years of university. Maths and Sciences. HARD maths and REAL sciences, like physics! She was at the top of her class all the way through and is doing post grad work. The other is halfway through high school and just as smart, with different specialties.

Both of them were reading before kindergarten. Both of them were very skilled for their age at using the computer.

We are talking late 90's and on here.

Both of them grew incredibly bored with their schooling and figured that if the "system" was geared to simple levels of knowledge then the people running it must be simple themselves. Not necessarily completely accurate but quite logical assumptions for their age. Remember, they are kids and kids are genetically pre-disposed to think adults aren't all that smart anyway!

When each of them began to show signs of developing this attitude I sat them down and explained the way the world works. I told them that the "system" was the way it was and would never change, at least not fast enough for them. However, they absolutely had to do as well as they could as far as their marks went, since society as a whole believed that only good marks showed that you were a smart person who should be hired for a job. Without diplomas and certificates they could know as much as Albert Einstein yet would likely have no job but at McDonalds.

Basically, I told them to fake it! I explained the value of keeping their teachers happy and that occasionally they would get a teacher who actually was both smart and good! I did not lie to them and tell them they were wrong. They were too smart to believe that against what they experienced every school day. So I showed them the benefit of not rocking the boat and also channels for them to learn as much as they wanted on their own!

I was pleased and proud to see how much they DID learn on their own!

Meanwhile, I again made sure that they knew how to access whatever they wanted on the Net and bought them shovelfuls of books!

Sometimes things worked out rather cute, like when my eldest became the school computer expert whenever they had a problem, when she was in grade 3. Not just for the kids - for many of the teachers!

When my youngest was in grade 1 her school instituted a program of "reading buddies", where kids from grade 7 and 8 would read to the lower grades. My daughter could read better than most of the older kids! So she became a reading buddy too.

Want to know how smart a kid really is? Or an adult for that matter? Check out their personal library, assuming they have one. Amazingly, many don't! Don't assume they rely on Net resources, either. Thank Heavens for Harry Potter and the Twilight series. For many kids, these were the only books not required by their schools that they have ever read.

You can believe whatever you like, Socialist. I'm an older guy who has a lot of experience and has talked with a great many people over the years. Your arguments are flat-out contradictions to what I have directly and indirectly learned.

Edited August 13, 2012 by Wild Bill

[MiddleClassCentrist]

This.

I am by self admission, lazy. I learned to be lazy thanks to a faulty school system and faulty parenting.

I've met entire families of well rounded gifted children now that I think about it. Even their "black sheep" was just being a bit rebellious by choosing a career as a trademen but, that one was really bright too. Home life/habit building is many times more important than school.

Teachers can only work with what they get.

But, that isn't to say our system is good. Ontario focuses way too much on the students who will be on long term disability for a lifetime... with few resources going to the students who could accomplish something novel...

[socialist]

Well, I raised two daughters. One just completed 4 years of university. Maths and Sciences. HARD maths and REAL sciences, like physics! She was at the top of her class all the way through and is doing post grad work. The other is halfway through high school and just as smart, with different specialties.

Both of them were reading before kindergarten. Both of them were very skilled for their age at using the computer.

We are talking late 90's and on here.

Both of them grew incredibly bored with their schooling and figured that if the "system" was geared to simple levels of knowledge then the people running it must be simple themselves. Not necessarily completely accurate but quite logical assumptions for their age. Remember, they are kids and kids are genetically pre-disposed to think adults aren't all that smart anyway!

When each of them began to show signs of developing this attitude I sat them down and explained the way the world works. I told them that the "system" was the way it was and would never change, at least not fast enough for them. However, they absolutely had to do as well as they could as far as their marks went, since society as a whole believed that only good marks showed that you were a smart person who should be hired for a job. Without diplomas and certificates they could know as much as Albert Einstein yet would likely have no job but at McDonalds.

Basically, I told them to fake it! I explained the value of keeping their teachers happy and that occasionally they would get a teacher who actually was both smart and good! I did not lie to them and tell them they were wrong. They were too smart to believe that against what they experienced every school day. So I showed them the benefit of not rocking the boat and also channels for them to learn as much as they wanted on their own!

I was pleased and proud to see how much they DID learn on their own!

Meanwhile, I again made sure that they knew how to access whatever they wanted on the Net and bought them shovelfuls of books!

Sometimes things worked out rather cute, like when my eldest became the school computer expert whenever they had a problem, when she was in grade 3. Not just for the kids - for many of the teachers!

When my youngest was in grade 1 her school instituted a program of "reading buddies", where kids from grade 7 and 8 would read to the lower grades. My daughter could read better than most of the older kids! So she became a reading buddy too.

Want to know how smart a kid really is? Or an adult for that matter? Check out their personal library, assuming they have one. Amazingly, many don't! Don't assume they rely on Net resources, either. Thank Heavens for Harry Potter and the Twilight series. For many kids, these were the only books not required by their schools that they have ever read.

You can believe whatever you like, Socialist. I'm an older guy who has a lot of experience and has talked with a great many people over the years. Your arguments are flat-out contradictions to what I have directly and indirectly learned.

If what you say is true there would be more talk of it in the media. There isn' so I'm calling BS on your well written fabrication.

[socialist]

What criteria do you base that on?

Here's some articles telling about how good Onatario's education system is. Chew on these Shady, wild Bill, and all you other negative types who think the public system is substandard. Read the articles don't just skim. You guys are out of your element discussing public education with me. You guys have an axe to grind and your lack of knowledge on the subject is embarrassing you.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/national/ontario-school-system-ranks-among-best-in-world-report-says/article567927/

http://www.parisstaronline.com/2011/07/29/ontarios-public-education-system-among-worlds-best

http://www.kathleenwynne.ca/News/275?l=EN

I'm kind of enjoying putting the fools in their places. If you don't know much about education than maybe you should read before posting nonsense. I have hundreds more articles in the waiting. Chew on these for a while before i embarrass you even more.

[Wild Bill]

If what you say is true there would be more talk of it in the media. There isn' so I'm calling BS on your well written fabrication.

Sure! That must be it.

[TheNewTeddy]

If what you say is true there would be more talk of it in the media. There isn' so I'm calling BS on your well written fabrication.

Why would the media report on the sun rising, or, someone random dying of old age. Media reports don't cover everyday events.

[Boges]

The McDalton government is playind divide and conquer trying to appeal to the young teachers.

http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/politics/article/1241252--ontario-moves-to-protect-young-teachers-jobs

In a move to protect 10,000 young teaching jobs, Ontario Education Minister Laurel Broten said Monday the government will regulate fair hiring practices as of Sept. 1.

The regulation change — which, among other things, limits retired teachers to a maximum of 50 days in the classroom supply teaching — comes into effect regardless of whether teaching contracts are signed, Broten told reporters at Queen’s Park.

However, those in the education sector say the minister is dusting off an old announcement and the decision to implement these fair hiring practices was made nearly two years ago.

The change ensures a fair, consistent and transparent approach to hiring of long-term occasional teachers and permanent teachers, Broten said.

50 day limit? How will they survive collecting that pension of theirs?

Edited August 13, 2012 by Boges

[MiddleClassCentrist]

The McDalton government is playind divide and conquer trying to appeal to the young teachers.

http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/politics/article/1241252--ontario-moves-to-protect-young-teachers-jobs

50 day limit? How will they survive collecting that pension of theirs?

It's actually a mixed blessing for young teachers. Retirees went from 20 days to 50 days after 3 years of retirement.

They were 90 days for 3 years, then 20 days for eternity.

So they might get an LTO position... but, their supply days are going to be fewer.

[Boges]

The gauntlet has been thrown down!

http://fullcomment.nationalpost.com/2012/08/17/scott-stinson-ontario-teachers-lose-the-carrot-get-the-stick/

On Thursday, his education minister, Laurel Broten, introduced the denouement to the premier’s decidedly optimistic and wildly unsuccessful union-management plan: Legislation that would, if passed, force a new two-year contract on teachers’ unions unable to reach an agreement that meets the government’s strict parameters by Aug. 31. If that deadline passes, allowing current teacher contracts to roll over on Sept. 1 and trigger automatic wage increases, the legislation allows the government to impose new contracts retroactively — meaning it is willing to claw back the money, in its words, “inappropriately provided to employees.” And, no small thing, it gives the minister the authority to prohibit teachers’ strikes.

So even if they can't get legislation passed by September, and you know the Dippers will try and Fillibuster, when it does get passed those raises will get clawed back!!!

Some tough talk from the McDalton Government. I agree with the PCs though. If you're serious about controlling spending why not legislate a cross the board public-sector wage freeze?

The teachers can't collectively bargain but pencil pushers at Service Ontario kiosks can?

[Keepitsimple]

you really don't know that much so i could care less what you think. YOU ARE UNIMPORTANT.

If a school board is fooled enough to hire you as an elementary school teacher, you'll find that many of your students "won't know that much". Your attitude is unbefitting a teacher. You've got a lot of growing up to do before you start to participate in discussions about teachers - and teaching.

[bleeding heart]

If a school board is fooled enough to hire you as an elementary school teacher, you'll find that many of your students "won't know that much".

Can't argue with that.

[Boges]

Can't argue with that.

What you don't know fractions are? You are unimportant then!

Edited August 17, 2012 by Boges

[bleeding heart]

You don't what fractions are? You are unimportant then!

Agreed.

Edited August 17, 2012 by bleeding heart

[Wild Bill]

If a school board is fooled enough to hire you as an elementary school teacher, you'll find that many of your students "won't know that much". Your attitude is unbefitting a teacher. You've got a lot of growing up to do before you start to participate in discussions about teachers - and teaching.

Wait until he runs into a parent who doesn't appreciate socialist's political leanings affecting his child!

[socialist]

Wait until he runs into a parent who doesn't appreciate socialist's political leanings affecting his child!

Not concerned at all about parents who don't know anything. Why couldn't you reply to the articles I posted about Ontario's reat public education system. You don't like reading things that prove you wrong do you wild bill. You just come up with bs stories about your daughters. you and your daughters should be THANKING their teachers.

[socialist]

If a school board is fooled enough to hire you as an elementary school teacher, you'll find that many of your students "won't know that much". Your attitude is unbefitting a teacher. You've got a lot of growing up to do before you start to participate in discussions about teachers - and teaching.

my students will know plenty. the three r's are done in today's 21st century schools. fossils like yourself can't understand that.

[TheNewTeddy]

Wait until he runs into a parent who doesn't appreciate socialist's political leanings affecting his child!

Not concerned at all about parents who don't know anything.

Are you implying that anyone who is not a socialist does not "know anything"?

[Wild Bill]

Are you implying that anyone who is not a socialist does not "know anything"?

Wait until a parent senses his attitude and see what happens! As a rule, parents don't give a damn about teachers unions or principals telling them what they have to accept. Such attempts always seem to escalate and the MSM LOVES to publicize them!

[TheNewTeddy]

Wait until a parent senses his attitude and see what happens! As a rule, parents don't give a damn about teachers unions or principals telling them what they have to accept. Such attempts always seem to escalate and the MSM LOVES to publicize them!

Frankly, I'm tempted to contact the school board and let them know that someone claiming to be a teacher is saying these ridiculous things.

[westguy]

if the Liberals don't give teachers what we deserve then there will be a strike. we are tired of governments who have no clue what we have to go through. mcguinty better quickly realize how much support the teachers in ontario gave him in this last election. thank goodness we have awesome teacher unions in this province looking out for teachers and students. i'm disgusted.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/start-of-ontarios-school-year-in-jeopardy-if-labour-talks-stall/article4449756/

what more could teacher's want? You already work 75%of the year for $100,000. Have generous benefits and pension, and cannot be fired if incompetent.

[westguy]

If teachers are going to get screwed around and not be treated fairly then going on strike during the school year is the only way to et the public's attention. You don't know anything about bargaining so don't try to pretend to be an expert.

quit your bitchin you have aguaranteed job and salary

[westguy]

I agree with you wholeheartedly. Private entities can waste money...and public entities should never do so.

All I was saying is the fact that we all agree that private entities waste money is the beginning of the undermining of the (often-stated) beleif that the private sector is always inherently practical, always merit-based...which of course brings into stark relief all sorts of questions about wages, corporate behaviour, and on and on.

Of course, those of us who have spent dcecades working solely in the private sector already are fully aware that things such as "merit" and "fairness" and "practicality" are religious beliefs, not factual observations.

if private entities waste resources, then it comes out of their pocket. If public entities do, then it comes out of the taxpayer's pocket.

[MiddleClassCentrist]

if private entities waste resources, then it comes out of their pocket. If public entities do, then it comes out of the taxpayer's pocket.

IF it's a small business, then yes.

If it's a big business in a market of diminishing competitors as they are bought up (majority of markets) then the consumer pays (read: tax payer).

In the end, we end up paying. Regardless of whether it is for profit of rich people(private sector), or to provide a service to regular people(Public sector). Companies that should fail receive government funding (GM), healthy companies receive government subsidies and breaks and then just leave the country(Caterpillar). Don't give us that silly "private sector" utopia that doesn't exist bull crap.

Edited August 18, 2012 by MiddleClassCentrist