Syrian Civil War

[DogOnPorch]

I'm usually not for war but in this case, I think NATO should go in and take out the government AND the rebels and get the country back to normal, hopefully,

That's the sane intervention plan, unfortunately. Anyone holding a weapon (etc) is a valid target.

[jbg]

Gevalt. Political correctness is not your forte.

It is not up to any of us to take on this superiority complex that we are noble and Syrians are savages in need of bwana to lead them from their savage ways to the ways of we pink people. Come on with the 1950's colonial talk.

Syria is a deeply divided nation precisely because the French and British artificially drew up the boards of countries like Syria, Lebanon et al to force feuding tribes to live in the same country to justify their colonial presence and stance of -if its not for us continuing to administer them-they would eat each other.

What we are talking about is finding a way so that Syrians can peacefully solve between themselves any problems they have.

If there was a shred of evidence that people in this area ever settled differences peacefully, in an inclusive manner, without massive bloodshed I'd see eye to eye with you. What evidence is there that aside from the wet blankets of Ottoman rule, or British/French colonial rule, peace ever prevailed?

I am a willing learner.

[eyeball]

Someone is making money off this war in Syria, that much we can be sure of, but the question is .. who?

Or gaining power...power, money...they're both pretty much one and the same thing. As interchangeable as time and space.

It's more a matter of what than who, and it operates more like a school of piranha happily nodding and winking amongst itself for the moment but just as likely to turn on itself when times get lean. It needs no more organization than instinct and a favourable alignment of interests and other factors at the right time. Or wrong depending on your point of view.

[eyeball]

If there was a shred of evidence that people in this area ever settled differences peacefully, in an inclusive manner, without massive bloodshed I'd see eye to eye with you. What evidence is there that aside from the wet blankets of Ottoman rule, or British/French colonial rule, peace ever prevailed?

There are only a few scant shreds of evidence to prove anyone else on the planet has been capable of settling their issues peacefully for anything more than a very thin slice of time. As usual it needs to be pointed out that had the ME region not been so badly diddled the ability to function and develop normally might not have been damaged to the extent that it has. These so called Arab Springs we've seen recently all just as likely would have sprung 40 - 50 years ago had the ME been left to its own devices and allowed to follow most of the rest of the planet towards more enlightened states. Now its far less likely because most of the natural capital has been sucked up and siphoned out by the diddlers - there's barely anything left to rebuild their societies with now - and of course the public's goodwill and civic mindedness a democracy needs has likewise almost been completely diddled right out of them to.

I am a willing learner.

I'd have to see that to believe it.

[jbg]

There are only a few scant shreds of evidence to prove anyone else on the planet has been capable of settling their issues peacefully for anything more than a very thin slice of time.

Our countries have been good at that since 1815, despite huge cultural and historical differences. Edited August 27, 2013 by jbg

[cybercoma]

Remember this thread?

http://www.mapleleafweb.com/forums/topic/22616-syria-has-been-using-chemical-weaponsthat-is-a-war-crime/

[GostHacked]

Remember this thread?

http://www.mapleleafweb.com/forums/topic/22616-syria-has-been-using-chemical-weaponsthat-is-a-war-crime/

Yes and this is at least the 3rd time we hear of chemical weapons in Syria. Someone erase that red line?

[Rue]

Omg, I forgot all about the Iluminati!!!

You are clearly not understanding how this works. Miley Cyrus. She is the leader of the shape shifting Dracos. They are orchestrating all

of it.

[Rue]

If there was a shred of evidence that people in this area ever settled differences peacefully, in an inclusive manner, without massive bloodshed I'd see eye to eye with you. What evidence is there that aside from the wet blankets of Ottoman rule, or British/French colonial rule, peace ever prevailed?

I am a willing learner.

Not in this area. Bloodshed has been the status quo since forever true. But you know the score. In reality today, nations insert puppet regimes and manipulate them by twitter message. I can't argue with you on the practical reality of it- all I am saying is they have to find a way to encourage Syrian moderates. Wishful thinking. Idealistic thinking yes. Unrealistic maybe but people said there would never be peace in Northern Ireland as well. Maybe a bad comparison but its the only one I have or the former Yugoslavia which would have melted down without NATO intervention. I do concede its a bloody miserable part of the world to expect rational thought processes let alone democratic institutions to emerge.

Where we both agree is that as long as orthodox fundamentalist Islam controls the political dialogue there is little chance for

moderates to emerge other than when they leave these countries and speak out from the US, etc.

Short term maybe impossible-long term though I agree with approaches that are building coalitions with Muslim moderates-surely they are the future of their nations just as much as the extremists. Surely they need our support so we don't just rely on military solutions which at best can only respond to immediate conflict and not long term solution building.

[Rue]

I am not sure a limited air strike would change anything but symbolically and call me naïve, I think its import the

West respond with an air strike and take out Syrian military sites as a warning if this happens again, the West will

take out Assad.

Yes this all could be part of deadly game of poker with not just Syria but Hezbollah and Iran as to how far all 3

are willing to go to test the resolution of the Western world.

Right now these nations believe the West is nothing but a bunch of fat oil addicted whores and laugh at us for

our perceived moral weaknesses and cowardly behaviour.

In this part of the world if someone deliberately does something after you ask them not do it is as extreme an insult as it gets.

The West has been given the finger and in particular Iran-Syria-Hezbollah gave Obama the finger and then some.

The West has lost any shred of credibility it has and to salvage any sort of credibility it has to show it means business over chemical warfare. Silence is a green light to increased and wide spread use of chemical warfare.

[GostHacked]

I am not sure a limited air strike would change anything but symbolically and call me naïve, I think its import the

West respond with an air strike and take out Syrian military sites as a warning if this happens again, the West will

take out Assad.

After two years, and already 2 other failed attempts to pin chemical weapons on Assad, Assad needs to be pummeled into the ground? The two year backing of the rebels failed and now the big guns need to be brought in?

Yes this all could be part of deadly game of poker with not just Syria but Hezbollah and Iran as to how far all 3

are willing to go to test the resolution of the Western world.

This is less of countries and kind of more about the division between the Shiites and Sunnis in which the west and the east are both using against each other.

Right now these nations believe the West is nothing but a bunch of fat oil addicted whores and laugh at us for

our perceived moral weaknesses and cowardly behaviour.

This time it does not look like it is about oil. What does Syria have that the west wants so bad?

The West has lost any shred of credibility it has and to salvage any sort of credibility it has to show it means business over chemical warfare. Silence is a green light to increased and wide spread use of chemical warfare.

More specifically the US has lost credibility here. Iraq was not so far behind us that people are all of a sudden forgetting. There is less evidence here than there was for invading Iraq.

But silence was what we heard the last two chemical attacks. Was it because there was no evidence? Or was it because it was not Assad and the Syrian army who used them?

Would you still support blowing the hell out of Syria if it was the western backed rebels who did the chemical attack?

[GostHacked]

http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/story/2013/08/27/syria-chemical-weapons-obama-harper-lawson-response.html

The phone call came as Canada's top general was in the Middle East meeting military chiefs from the U.S., Europe and several regional countries to discuss those possible responses, according to reports.

The two-day summit of military brass in Amman also included the chiefs of defence staff from Britain, the United States, Turkey, France, Germany, Italy, Saudi Arabia, Qatar and Jordan, an official source in Jordan's armed forces told the country's semi-official Petra news agency.

Convenient.

[PIK]

Canada is leading the invasion, a truck just went past my place with a leopard tank on it, so it has started. lol But they are big. But anyways ,there is nothing we can do for them but kill more, let them battle it out and winner takes all. It is to hard to tell you are helping these days.

Edited August 27, 2013 by PIK

[dre]

Canada is leading the invasion, a truck just went past my place with a leopard tank on it, so it has started. lol But they are big. But anyways ,there is nothing we can do for them but kill more, let them battle it out and winner takes all. It is to hard to tell you are helping these days.

Apparently we never learn... It looks like we are about to back a bunch of sunni islamic fundamentalists, some of them AlQaeda afilliates, over a strongman.

I guess you cant fix stupid!

[bleeding heart]

Apparently we never learn... It looks like we are about to back a bunch of sunni islamic fundamentalists, some of them AlQaeda afilliates, over a strongman.

I guess you cant fix stupid!

Apparently we're doomed to have this conversation forever.

Fortunately for the nationalists and the triumphalists, all of this is, in every case, without exception, someone else's fault.

[GostHacked]

Apparently we're doomed to have this conversation forever.

Fortunately for the nationalists and the triumphalists, all of this is, in every case, without exception, someone else's fault.

Apparently not much was learned from Iraq. And most recently Libya. The French AGAIN are piping up being instigators and will bow out once the missiles start flying in typical French political fashion.

Libya and Iraq are both still in turmoil. Libya still cannot get their act together, but as long as the oil flows out of the country who really freakin cares.

'Don't you care about the price of gas?' Really? This is a question from some? Does gas prices ever go back down to levels we saw years ago? Not at all. It goes UP, down a little then UP a lot, then down a little .. trending up and up and up and up. So the price of gas is irrelevant. The supply might be another issue, but North America has more untapped oil than what the freakin Saudi's have.

I guess we will have to see if the usual entities get contracts for 'rebuilding' Syria. Nothing like getting Syria into complete debt by destroying their country and then sending them the bill for reconstruction.

[DogOnPorch]

Apparently we're doomed to have this conversation forever.

Fortunately for the nationalists and the triumphalists, all of this is, in every case, without exception, someone else's fault.

Syria has been Russia's problem. Might as well have become a full Warsaw Pact member. Russia forgave the bulk of Syria's debt to the former Soviet Union so Syria could buy more weapons.

[cybercoma]

Apparently we never learn... It looks like we are about to back a bunch of sunni islamic fundamentalists, some of them AlQaeda afilliates, over a strongman.

I guess you cant fix stupid!

The alternative is not responding to someone that uses chemical weapons to mass murder his opposition.

Perhaps we deal with the most pressing issue first, which is to stop a murderer from slaughtering his people. After that, when problems arise with the al-Qaeda affiliates, if that's even true, then we deal with it then.

But to just ignore what's happening and leave things be. That's madness.

[GostHacked]

The alternative is not responding to someone that uses chemical weapons to mass murder his opposition.

Perhaps we deal with the most pressing issue first, which is to stop a murderer from slaughtering his people. After that, when problems arise with the al-Qaeda affiliates, if that's even true, then we deal with it then.

But to just ignore what's happening and leave things be. That's madness.

There has been more than enough evidence for the Al-Queda types in Syria. Most of these 'rebels' are not even Syrian.

So you have Assad and the standing Syrian Army doing what they would do normally. And that is defend your country form outside influence. Fighting off the rebels is legit. Russia, the USA, and China would NOT tolerate any outside influence, so Syria as a sovereign nation should not tolerate it either.

Let's say Canada was being attacked by rebels in which most of them are not Canadians. One would fully expect the government and military to protect the nation and fight off these rebels.

The notion of chemical weapons is nothing more than a facade for a reason to attack Syria. Has Syria attacked the USA, UK, Canada? Shells went long into Turkey, but only as a response to the rebels (operating in a safe haven in Turkey) taking over a Syrian military checkpoint.

Assad is fighting off elements of Al-Queda and several other recognized terror groups. WHY would we be helping the rebels when most are not Syrians and a good deal of them are known terrorists?

I thought this war on terror was to eliminate terror groups like Al-Queda, but yet we seem to be backing them every step of the way over the last two years in order to bring down Assad. Does any of this make sense to anyone?

[cybercoma]

Let's say Canada was being attacked by rebels in which most of them are not Canadians. One would fully expect the government and military to protect the nation and fight off these rebels.

If Trudeau had used chemical weapons to mass murder the FLQ or those suspected of being a part of the FLQ, Canada would have been attacked by international powers and disarmed. That's a certainty.

[GostHacked]

If Trudeau had used chemical weapons to mass murder the FLQ or those suspected of being a part of the FLQ, Canada would have been attacked by international powers and disarmed. That's a certainty.

So if a person dies by a bullet to the head execution style, is more acceptable than chemical weapons being used? Does one take into consideration the amount of DU used in warplanes for the Iraq war? Chemical bad, conventional and radioactive substances ok? Dead is dead. And we have had thousands and thousands of people already killed from this conflict. Sure chemical weapons are nasty, but really , war is war and apparently war is hell.

And again, this is at least the 3rd time we have heard about chemical weapons in Syria. They had confirmed they were used the other two times, but could not determine WHO used them. Now this works for Assad because even if he did use it, it would be questionable because of the last two attacks where the red line was crossed, but no action. Third time is the charm?

Assad keeps saying he won't use chemical weapons. I don't think we got that courtesy from these Al-queda type rebels. Remember, this is supposedly the same Al-Queda that brought down some buildings in NYC. WHY are we supporting them there to kick Assad out?

It's like Afghanistan in some ways. The west, specifically at that time the USA, supplying Al-Queda...

[GostHacked]

A better version of Clinton saying what the real problem is. I guess she created here own problem in Benghazi as well.

[GostHacked]

Not that anyone cares about the mess Iraq was left in. But Syria faces the same fate as Iraq and Libya....

http://worldnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/08/28/20226505-at-least-71-dead-201-hurt-in-bombings-and-other-attacks-across-iraqi-capital?lite

BAGHDAD, Iraq -- At least 71 people were killed and 201 wounded in a series of bombings and other attacks across Baghdad on Wednesday, police and medical sources said, extending the worst wave of sectarian bloodshed in Iraq for at least five years.

This is deliberate destabilization of the WHOLE Middle East.

Mission Accomplished?

[DogOnPorch]

Not that anyone cares about the mess Iraq was left in. But Syria faces the same fate as Iraq and Libya....

http://worldnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/08/28/20226505-at-least-71-dead-201-hurt-in-bombings-and-other-attacks-across-iraqi-capital?lite

This is deliberate destabilization of the WHOLE Middle East.

Mission Accomplished?

Who is deliberately destabilizing the entire Middle East?

[dre]

If Trudeau had used chemical weapons to mass murder the FLQ or those suspected of being a part of the FLQ, Canada would have been attacked by international powers and disarmed. That's a certainty.

I dont know about that. Most historical use of chemical weapons has not resulted in anything like this.