"If You’ve Got A Business — You Didn’t Build That"

[BubberMiley]

True. People are also offended of his diminishing of individual hard work and success.

How does it diminish their hard work by saying they didn't build the roads and bridges? They really didn't.

Instead, aren't you the one diminishing the work of the people who actually built the roads?

Edited July 25, 2012 by BubberMiley

[msj]

True. People are also offended of his diminishing of individual hard work and success.

In 2002 Mitt Romney stated:

You Olympians... know that you didn't get here solely on your own power. For most of you, loving parents, sisters, or brothers encouraged your hopes. Coaches guided. Communities built venues and organized competitions. All Olympians stand on the shoulders of those who lifted them.

[A very fine quote - good for Romney for making it although in 2012 he's probably flip flopping about it ]

So, Shady, are you offended by Romney's "diminishing of individual hard work and success" too?

[Shady]

How does it diminish their hard work by saying they didn't build the roads and bridges? They really didn't.

Instead, aren't you the one diminishing the work of the people who actually built the roads?

"You've got a business, you didn't build that" doesn't refer to roads and bridges. He thinks that somebody that starts a business and is successful, anybody with a good idea for providing goods and services owes their success to government. It's a foreign concept to how America was founded and how it became successful.

[August1991]

Humans are also biologically competitive and tribal by nature. The human willingness to act altruistically is generally limited to those which are deemed to be part of the "tribe". This creates problems for governments when the "tribe" does not align with a territory managed by a government.

And the price mechanism turns that competitive nature into cooperation. Go back and read Adam Smith.

Course the free market doesnt extend to the person making the ipad.

Huh? Of course it does. And this explains why so many people, billions, are now far better off than merely two decades ago.

Voluntary cooperation

Is there such a thing as "involuntary cooperation"?

In 2002 Mitt Romney stated:

...

[A very fine quote - good for Romney for making it although in 2012 he's probably flip flopping about it ]

So, Shady, are you offended by Romney's "diminishing of individual hard work and success" too?

Msj, there's a world of difference between Romney's quote and Obama's.

Romney doesn't deny that we live in society and that we require the assistance of others. Obama OTOH seems to think that the federal government is critical to people's success.

----

But there's a broader political angle to all this, and it partly explains why Obama has committed a gaffe (as if digging up obscure 10 year old Romney quotes were not evidence enough of the gaffe). And to understand it, let me quote that Icon of English Canada's Left, Tommy Douglas:

Presently there came along one little mouse who had an idea. My friends, watch out for the little fellow with an idea.

Even Tommy Douglas seemed to admire individual effort sometimes.

Edited July 25, 2012 by August1991

[BubberMiley]

"You've got a business, you didn't build that" doesn't refer to roads and bridges.

I'm sorry you so gullibly fell for the GOP talking points once again, but look up the actual video and see what he said immediately before that line:

"Somebody invested in roads and bridges. If you've got a business, you didn't build that."

[msj]

Msj, there's a world of difference between Romney's quote and Obama's.

Romney doesn't deny that we live in society and that we require the assistance of others. Obama OTOH seems to think that the federal government is critical to people's success.

When has Obama ever denied that "we live in society and that we require the assistance of others?"

Where's the denial?

Put up the quote.

[msj]

"You've got a business, you didn't build that" doesn't refer to roads and bridges. He thinks that somebody that starts a business and is successful, anybody with a good idea for providing goods and services owes their success to government. It's a foreign concept to how America was founded and how it became successful.

If you listen to the entire clip you notice two things:

1) the partial quote, if we are going to be completely accurate, is: "... Somebody invested in roads an bridges. If you've got a business - that -- you didn't build that." [Notice the additional "that" spoken softly]

2) It is clearly a dangling participle type of grammatical error.

Now, for those in Canada, I highly recommend Back in Black found on the daily show which gives us a good take on just how dishonest those American politicians are and how they have little choice left but to vote for Nutella for President.

Edited July 25, 2012 by msj

[Shady]

I'm sorry you so gullibly fell for the GOP talking points once again, but look up the actual video and see what he said immediately before that line:

"Somebody invested in roads and bridges. If you've got a business, you didn't build that."

Yep, somebody did invest in roads and bridges, like the taxes businesses pay and the taxes their employees pay. The success of a business has a lot more to do than just roads and bridges. Only statists think Obamas way.

[BubberMiley]

The success of a business has a lot more to do than just roads and bridges. Only statists think Obamas way.

He was only saying such infrastructure is necessary, which it is. If acknowledging the role of the state makes one a "statist," then I guess he's guilty as charged.

Don't you feel dirty now for taking the quote out of context, like your "ilk"?

[Guest American Woman]

I think the bottom line is that anyone who supports Obama understands what he meant and anyone who doesn't support him will never want to understand what he said - and it just won't matter enough to anyone else.

[Shady]

He was only saying such infrastructure is necessary, which it is. If acknowledging the role of the state makes one a "statist," then I guess he's guilty as charged.

Don't you feel dirty now for taking the quote out of context, like your "ilk"?

No, he was diminishing individual success. It was a dumb thing to say, which is why he's tried to walk it back. But it's what he really believes.

[Shady]

I think the bottom line is that anyone who supports Obama understands what he meant and anyone who doesn't support him will never want to understand what he said - and it just won't matter enough to anyone else.

I think the bottom line is that anyone that supports Obama will give him a pass for saying something dumb, and those that don't support him wont.

[Guest American Woman]

No, he was diminishing individual success. It was a dumb thing to say, which is why he's tried to walk it back. But it's what he really believes.

Good thing we have you to tell us what he really believes; heaven help us if we rely on what he says he really believes, eh?

[Guest American Woman]

I think the bottom line is that anyone that supports Obama will give him a pass for saying something dumb, and those that don't support him wont.

Pretty much the way anyone who supports Romney will give him a pass for saying anything dumb, and those that don't support him won't. In other words, in the end, it doesn't make any difference.

[BubberMiley]

No, he was diminishing individual success. It was a dumb thing to say, which is why he's tried to walk it back. But it's what he really believes.

No, if you take out the part about roads and bridges (which coincidentally Foxnews consistently did in ALL its coverage), you could make the argument that it sounds like he's diminishing individual success. If you hear the quote in its entirety, you realize that the GOP and Foxnews and you have been lying about what he said.

Then, if he clarifies what he really said, you can accuse him of "walking it back", and you can make up whatever you want and say it's "what he really believes."

Fortunately, most people are smart enough to make themselves aware of the truth and know he was talking about roads and bridges, as you clearly were not.

[guyser]

Fortunately, most people are smart enough to make themselves aware of the truth

Aparently not.

Silly, but sadly true.

[Shady]

No, if you take out the part about roads and bridges (which coincidentally Foxnews consistently did in ALL its coverage), you could make the argument that it sounds like he's diminishing individual success. If you hear the quote in its entirety, you realize that the GOP and Foxnews and you have been lying about what he said.

Then, if he clarifies what he really said, you can accuse him of "walking it back", and you can make up whatever you want and say it's "what he really believes."

Fortunately, most people are smart enough to make themselves aware of the truth and know he was talking about roads and bridges, as you clearly were not.

No, those of us that are smart enough know that what he said was what he believes. And more importantly, it fits in perfectly with his other so-called similar gaffes, as well as the economic policies he's pursued as president.

The fact is, people that start businesses that become successful put in an awfully lot of hard work and deserve the appropriate credit. They don't need some economic illiterate in the white house that's never run a business in his life and never met a payroll in his life diminishing their accomplishments. You sycophants are pathetic.

[Guest American Woman]

The fact is, people that start businesses that become successful put in an awfully lot of hard work and deserve the appropriate credit. They don't need some economic illiterate in the white house that's never run a business in his life and never met a payroll in his life diminishing their accomplishments. You sycophants are pathetic.

I honestly think business people care more about the policies of the candidate, the tax breaks, policies that apply to businesses/business owners, etc., than whether or not the candidate is patting them on the back, giving them sole credit.

As I've said, government policies DO affect a business owner's chances of success, or we'd be seeing the same rate of success all over the world, regardless of government - and business owners and corporate bigwigs wouldn't care who was in the White House or Congress.

[guyser]

No, those of us that are smart enough know that ...

You really should remove the word 'us' from that sentence.It cannot possible include you.

What you are pathetically going on and on about has been shown to be a syntax error , not some crazed words uttered by the holder of your ODS.

Edited July 25, 2012 by guyser

[August1991]

Pretty much the way anyone who supports Romney will give him a pass for saying anything dumb, and those that don't support him won't. In other words, in the end, it doesn't make any difference.

I don't think anyone has raised Romney into the status of demi-God, incapable of error. Yet many Obama supporters seem to have done exactly that.

To me, Obama is a routine politician with a nice voice. In the context of US politics, he said something stupid. It happens.

I think the bottom line is that anyone that supports Obama will give him a pass for saying something dumb, and those that don't support him wont.

But the key question is how the independents will see the remark. Edited July 25, 2012 by August1991

[msj]

To me, Obama is a routine politician with a nice voice. In the context of US politics, he said something stupid. It happens.

Well, I suppose making a grammatical error like that is "stupid" but it isn't nearly the big deal that the anti-Obama people are making it out to be.

Taken in context he said that the government assists in the success of business people.

He did not say the government assists at 90% or 10% but that they assist.

BFD people.

It's true.

No business is an island.

Especially if the business in question ends up in a Romney ad on this subject and then it is later found out that that business received $800,000 in tax free loans from the government.

Edited July 25, 2012 by msj

[cybercoma]

Aparently not.

Silly, but sadly true.

Ain't that the truth.

[Michael Hardner]

True. People are also offended of his diminishing of individual hard work and success.

I can even see this...

But it's hard for some to see how things will 'spin' with neutral voters. I'm not saying that I'm right on this issue, but I can definitely see how mainstream USians would balk at that statement.

[kimmy]

Has this been mentioned already? The businessman featured in Mitt Romney's ad telling us what he built with his own hands also happened to be on the receiving end of over a million dollars of government "small business" grants.

hmm.

-k

[Bitsy]

Many say it differently but people that think for themselves understood his comment and have expressed similar thoughts.

http://www.alternet.org/story/156250/multi-millionaire_admits%3A_the_government_helped_make_me_rich

http://www.princeton.edu/main/news/archive/S33/87/54K53/index.xml?section