"If You’ve Got A Business — You Didn’t Build That"

[August1991]

Taken in context he said that the government assists in the success of business people.

He did not say the government assists at 90% or 10% but that they assist.

BFD people.

It's true.

No business is an island.

Especially if the business in question ends up in a Romney ad on this subject and then it is later found out that that business received $800,000 in tax free loans from the government.

Hey msj, taken in context, Tommy Douglas meant that one little guy with an idea (that he imagined all on his own) can change the world.

At its root, and in context, Obama's quote is a denigration of the individual, and individual effort.

The debate has nothing to do with bridges, society, or even the US federal government (as I argued above). It rankles because we each make our life our own way, America has made this obvious fact of life evident, and Obama has mistakenly implied - Stalin-style - that we're no more important than the collective. Obama touched (brushed?) a third rail.

----

Do I think the quote reflects Obama's mindset? Yes. (My prediction is that once Obama is out of office - after winning his second term - he'll speak more freely of this idea that individual effort is less important than collective support, or something.)

Do I think this gaffe matters? No. He'll win a second term.

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Today, riding a taxi in Kaliningrad, I gave more thought to this question. Trudeau gave alot of thought to Canada and Quebec societies before entering federal politics. I thought Obama had done something of the same before running for US president. I reckoned that Obama's greatest change/legacy would be a better inclusion of the descendants of African slaves into American society.

Instead, Obama seems to be a typical politician who happens to have a deep voice. His political philosophy, thoughts on America, are no deeper than what his mother believed: we need State medical care because no man is an island.

Edited July 27, 2012 by August1991

[msj]

At its root, and in context, Obama's quote is a denigration of the individual, and individual effort.

The debate has nothing to do with bridges, society, or even the US federal government (as I argued above). It rankles because we each make our life our own way, America has made this obvious fact of life evident, and Obama has mistakenly implied - Stalin-style - that we're no important than the collective. Obama touched (brushed?) a third rail.

----

Do I think the quote reflects Obama's mindset? Yes. (My prediction is that once Obama is out of office - after winning his second term - he'll speak more freely of this idea that individual effort is less important than collective support, or something.)

I think you and Shady are loony.

I have read the entire quote in context numerous times and am unable to come to any of your conclusions above.

Oh, and nice ducking of my question - you can't come up with anything substantial so you think that if you state your opinion that this somehow will have some kind of meaning.

Your opinion is worthless.

Back it up or shut up....

Edited July 27, 2012 by msj

[August1991]

Oh, and nice ducking of my question - you can't come up with anything substantial so you think that if you state your opinion that this somehow will have some kind of meaning.

Uh, what was your question?

This?

Taken in context he said that the government assists in the success of business people.

He did not say the government assists at 90% or 10% but that they assist.

BFD people.

It's true.

No business is an island.

If this was your question, then I think that you entirely miss the whole point of the debate on at least two levels. But as I say, what was your question?

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msj, I went back and looked at Obama's quote. And I think that I prefer the Tommy Douglas version. Sometimes, there is a little guy in the room with a good idea. Obama's idea/quote somehow denigrates or diminishes that "little guy".

It's as if a teacher turned to a young pupil, who struggled and suddenly learned a new concept, and the teacher said: "Of course, you didn't learn this alone. I taught it to you, and several smart people before you figured it all out."

It's as if Obama wants to humble America.

Edited July 27, 2012 by August1991

[msj]

Uh, what was your question?

This?If this was your question, then I think that you entirely miss the whole point of the debate on at least two levels. But as I say, what was your question?

---

Only someone unable to find the question (clearly asked in post #306 above) can claim that I'm missing "the whole point."

[TimG]

I have read the entire quote in context numerous times and am unable to come to any of your conclusions above.

I read the entire quote in context numerous times and I can't figure why people insist on defending Obama. He denigrated entrepreneurs and said they deserve no credit for their effort. If you look at the context you could argue that he misspoke and intended to say something else. But you can't argue that he did not say what he did.

[msj]

I read the entire quote in context numerous times and I can't figure why people insist on defending Obama. He denigrated entrepreneurs and said they deserve no credit for their effort. If you look at the context you could argue that he misspoke and intended to say something else. But you can't argue that he did not say what he did.

Yes, he committed a grammatical error but when viewed in the entire context he said nothing of what you are claiming.

[Guest American Woman]

I read the entire quote in context numerous times and I can't figure why people insist on defending Obama. He denigrated entrepreneurs and said they deserve no credit for their effort.

So what part of "we succeed because of our individual initiative" translates into "they deserve no credit for their effort?"

[msj]

Yes, thank you AW.

Let's look at some more context surrounding the statement:

There are a lot of wealthy, successful Americans who agree with me -- because they want to give something back. They know they didn’t -- look, if you’ve been successful, you didn’t get there on your own. You didn’t get there on your own. I’m always struck by people who think, well, it must be because I was just so smart. There are a lot of smart people out there. It must be because I worked harder than everybody else. Let me tell you something -- there are a whole bunch of hardworking people out there.

"If you were successful, somebody along the line gave you some help. There was a great teacher somewhere in your life. Somebody helped to create this unbelievable American system that we have that allowed you to thrive. Somebody invested in roads and bridges. If you’ve got a business -- you didn’t build that. Somebody else made that happen. The Internet didn’t get invented on its own. Government research created the Internet so that all the companies could make money off the Internet.

"The point is, is that when we succeed, we succeed because of our individual initiative, but also because we do things together. There are some things, just like fighting fires, we don’t do on our own. I mean, imagine if everybody had their own fire service. That would be a hard way to organize fighting fires.

"So we say to ourselves, ever since the founding of this country, you know what, there are some things we do better together. That’s how we funded the G.I. Bill. That’s how we created the middle class. That’s how we built the Golden Gate Bridge or the Hoover Dam. That’s how we invented the Internet. That’s how we sent a man to the moon. We rise or fall together as one nation and as one people, and that’s the reason I’m running for President -- because I still believe in that idea. You’re not on your own, we’re in this together.

[Emphasis mine]

Link

[BubberMiley]

[Emphasis mine]

Nothing shuts up our conservative friends like complete context. It's like kryptonite for them.

[Shady]

I would sumbit that the worst part of Obama's remarks last weekend wasn't even the "you didn't build that, somebody else made that happen" part. I think that the remarks he made prior to those words are even worse.

Im always struck by people who think, well, it must be because I was just so smart. There are a lot of smart people out there. It must be because I worked harder than everybody else.

Let me guess, he's talking about roads and bridges right?

I guess that's what it's come to. Demeaning business owners that might think they're smart and/or work hard, or harder than the average person. Hope n change!

Edited July 28, 2012 by Shady

[BubberMiley]

How do you feel about the part where it says "The point is..."? Because, you know, that was the point.

[Shady]

How do you feel about the part where it says "The point is..."? Because, you know, that was the point.

Did he have to get to his point by mocking people who think "they're so smart, or work hard?"

[punked]

I would sumbit that the worst part of Obama's remarks last weekend wasn't even the "you didn't build that, somebody else made that happen" part. I think that the remarks he made prior to those words are even worse.

Let me guess, he's talking about roads and bridges right?

I guess that's what it's come to. Demeaning business owners that might think they're smart and/or work hard, or harder than the average person. Hope n change!

He is saying there is a lot of very smart and hard working people in Sudan but you don't see small business grow into large business there. There are a lot of very smart hard working people in China to and as the government invests in infrastructure there they find their smart hard working people out competing others. It takes a village, and it takes roads to make business work Shady. If you don't want to invest in the infrastructure that is fine but as the world leaves you behind no one is going to care how many smart and harding working people you have.

It takes more then one person to grow a nation, and an industrial power. Just look at anyone of them in the world.

[Shady]

He is saying there is a lot of very smart and hard working people in Sudan but you don't see small business grow into large business there. There are a lot of very smart hard working people in China to and as the government invests in infrastructure there they find their smart hard working people out competing others. It takes a village, and it takes roads to make business work Shady. If you don't want to invest in the infrastructure that is fine but as the world leaves you behind no one is going to care how many smart and harding working people you have.

It takes more then one person to grow a nation, and an industrial power. Just look at anyone of them in the world.

Yep, and people and businesses ARE paying taxes for infrastructure. So what's the point? To mock people who think they're smart and work hard? Is that what's it's come to? I guess that's why he's becoming known as the divider-in-chief.

[BubberMiley]

Yep, and people and businesses ARE paying taxes for infrastructure. So what's the point? To mock people who think they're smart and work hard?

No, you just didn't get the point. That's okay. Reading is hard.

He was saying that in addition to their hard work, the great American system got them to where they are. Why are you mocking and denigrating the American system?

[cybercoma]

So what part of "we succeed because of our individual initiative" translates into "they deserve no credit for their effort?"

The part that's read by illiterates or heard by mental midgets.

[Shady]

So what part of "we succeed because of our individual initiative" translates into "they deserve no credit for their effort?"

So if he believes that people succeed because of their individual initiative, then why did he feel the need to mock people for thinking their "smart and work hard?" Was that really necessary to make his point?

[msj]

I would sumbit that the worst part of Obama's remarks last weekend wasn't even the "you didn't build that, somebody else made that happen" part. I think that the remarks he made prior to those words are even worse.

If they are so bad then why isn't this thread based on those remarks instead?

Keep back peddling.

[Shady]

If they are so bad then why isn't this thread based on those remarks instead?

Keep back peddling.

Who's back peddling? Other than Obama this week, trying to walk back his dumb remarks.

[Guest American Woman]

So if he believes that people succeed because of their individual initiative, then why did he feel the need to mock people for thinking their "smart and work hard?" Was that really necessary to make his point?

Newsflash. He wasn't mocking them.

[Shady]

Newsflash. He wasn't mocking them.

Of course he was, watch the video. You're being disingenuous.

Anyways, here's another piece of the puzzle. In his book, Obama refers to working at his only ever job in the private sector as working for "the enemy" and like being a spy "behind enemy lines." Well, that's pretty much how he's governed as President, and it shows in his policies.

"He calls it working for the enemy," Obama's mother, Ann, wrote after a phone conversation with her son, "because some of the reports are written for commercial firms that want to invest in [Third World] countries."

Obama described his time at Business International this way: "Like a spy behind enemy lines, I arrived every day at my mid-Manhattan office. ..." Obama wrote that he took the job only after his applications to several civil rights organizations were ignored.

Washington Examiner

[punked]

Of course he was, watch the video. You're being disingenuous.

Anyways, here's another piece of the puzzle. In his book, Obama refers to working at his only ever job in the private sector as working for "the enemy" and like being a spy "behind enemy lines." Well, that's pretty much how he's governed as President, and it shows in his policies.

Washington Examiner

How about you come back when you don't have an article picked up from brietbart a site known to make up lies about Obama ok? Thanks. BTW I know it says washing examiner (which is also not a good source) but the washington examiner picked up from Brietbart. Remember those are the people that keep reporting O'Keefes lies as facts which are later debunked. So we can debate what he said when we actually know he said it. Right now I am unconvinced.

Edited July 28, 2012 by punked

[Shady]

How about you come back when you don't have an article picked up from brietbart a site known to make up lies about Obama ok? Thanks. BTW I know it says washing examiner (which is also not a good source) but the washington examiner picked up from Brietbart. Remember those are the people that keep reporting O'Keefes lies as facts which are later debunked. So we can debate what he said when we actually know he said it. Right now I am unconvinced.

Huh? It's out of Obama's own book. Anyways, Romneys doing a good job capitalizing on Obamas remarks. He's giving out t-shirts to small business owners that say "Sorry Mr. President, I built my business."

[punked]

How about you come back when you don't have an article picked up from brietbart a site known to make up lies about Obama ok? Thanks. BTW I know it says washing examiner (which is also not a good source) but the washington examiner picked up from Brietbart. Remember those are the people that keep reporting O'Keefes lies as facts which are later debunked. So we can debate what he said when we actually know he said it. Right now I am unconvinced.

Huh? It's out of Obama's own book. Anyways, Romneys doing a good job capitalizing on Obamas remarks. He's giving out t-shirts to small business owners that say "Sorry Mr. President, I built my business."

If it was out of his book then the passage could be quoted IN CONTEXT! All you have linked to is 10 words that are claimed to be said by Obama with a 500 word description of the other 100 words. Doesn't that seem suspect to you? It is yellow journalism at its best and it is people like you that cheered on its rise in the 30s wanna guess what all that propaganda lead to?

BTW Shady is a liar again. It isn't out of Obama's book it is out of David Maraniss, Barack Obama: The Story, 2012, pp. 487-488. You are the worst type of political person. An uninformed one Shady. Stop spreading your lies.

I'm going to put another quote from that book here though. You know the book Shady is using to prove Obama hates America and is a socialist.

Another group of right-wing doubters hold on to the notion that Obama is a closet socialist ... an idea that his every move as a pragmatic liberal politician over the past 16 years has utterly disproved.

Edited July 30, 2012 by punked

[Shady]

Sorry punked, but his "being a spy behind enemy lines" quote is right out of his memoire. Try again.