Olympics 2012 in London

[wyly]

Soccer and Cricket is huge there too.

Donovan Bailey and Ben Johnson were both Jamaican born so yeah Jamaicans are pretty dominant in sprinting.

That being said, Usain Bolt is an extraordinary athlete.

he is extraordinary, traditionally he would have been considered to tall to be an effective sprinter but he may changed what coaches in the future look for in sprinters...

[wyly]

Why? Japan beat Canada and The USA beat France in the early rounds. Japan and the USA are the top two teams. Canada is definitely an up and coming team. They finished with no points in the World Cup last year and this Scottish coach Herdman was brought and and the improvements are noticeable to all.

often the better team doesn't win, sometimes it comes down to coaching strategy or just luck...as a coach I overcame better more talented teams because I out smarted the other coach, other times we just got lucky an "ugly win"...France plays an attractive attacking game their coach was slow to change tactics vs Japan and ran out of time, Japan was being badly outplayed...

Canada played poorly in the last WC they were making simple basic defending errors that are inexcusable at that level and that's was due to coaching...a new coach has had a remarkable effect he took the tools at his disposal and reorganized then...

I heard someone joke on the radio that perhaps he should coach the Leafs.

other than the difference in technical requirements the approach to training is very similar...a Junior hockey coach showed me a hockey coaches book he had, it was written by the "father of russian hockey"(don't recall his name) looking through the practice organization used it was virtually the same as what we used in soccer..

France seems to be a technically great team but you gotta be able to score to win. Canada's defense was clearly up to the test in this game.

and as in most games defending is much easier than scoring...defenders always know where the attackers are headed...so in soccer as in hockey the weaker team will defend to death hoping for the one opportunity to score and then sit on the lead...you can't fault the weaker team for it's tactics it's the smart play... Edited August 9, 2012 by wyly

[wyly]

oh ya, just watched the france canada match, sometimes you win ugly, france by far the better side...

[bleeding heart]

he is extraordinary, traditionally he would have been considered to tall to be an effective sprinter but he may changed what coaches in the future look for in sprinters...

What's the issue with too much height, now that you bring it up? Does it have something to do with balance/equilibrium?

[Guest Manny]

Well if you were a favourite in your event and you expected Gold. Silver would seem like being a First loser for you. Guys like Usain Bolt or Michael Phelphs don't care about Bronze or Silver.

I don't think many Canadians would have been proud of our Canadian Hockey players for getting a Silver in 2010.

I"m only in the top two or three in the world, boo hoo? Ridiculous. You know what it means to an athlete to go to the olympics, compete on front of the whole world and win a medal, to be on the podium at the end, you think they feel like a loser?

I think the example shown by our athletes, who are real champions has proved you utterly wrong.

[wyly]

What's the issue with too much height, now that you bring it up? Does it have something to do with balance/equilibrium?

balance/equilibrium, slow starts, stride rate...the key formula being stride length x stride rate, the ideal body size for that being 5'10-6'3".... from what I've read bolt's coaches had to adjust his running style, shortening his stride and having him run with his head further forward as he ran too upright...he should be better at longer distances, 400m, 800m, he could well be the blueprint for future sprinters... Edited August 9, 2012 by wyly

[bleeding heart]

balance/equilibrium, slow starts, stride rate...the key formula being stride length x stride rate, the ideal body size for that being 5'10-6'3".... from what I've read bolt's coaches had to adjust his running style, shortening his stride and having him run with his head further forward as he ran to upright...he should be better at longer distances, 400m, 800m, he could well be the blueprint for future sprinters...

Ok, that's interesting, thanks.

[wyly]

I"m only in the top two or three in the world, boo hoo? Ridiculous. You know what it means to an athlete to go to the olympics, compete on front of the whole world and win a medal, to be on the podium at the end, you think they feel like a loser?

I think the example shown by our athletes, who are real champions has proved you utterly wrong.

when your goal is gold/1st anything else is an extreme let down...these are the first olympics that I can recall where I've of heard athletes performances being described as "[u]winning[/u]" the silver or bronze?...what?...silver and bronze is what you get when you lose 1st and 2nd place, you've failed...the exception being when the athlete/s is exceed expectations(womens soccer)...

"winning" the silver or bronze is just putting a positive spin on failing, similar to countries tallying all their medals to determine their international placement instead of a gold total...

I'm curious to see what the US claims if China has the most gold, will the US try claim superiority on total medals or if reversed will they claim superiority on total gold...it'll be moot if china leads in both gold and medal total...

[Boges]

I"m only in the top two or three in the world, boo hoo? Ridiculous. You know what it means to an athlete to go to the olympics, compete on front of the whole world and win a medal, to be on the podium at the end, you think they feel like a loser?

I think the example shown by our athletes, who are real champions has proved you utterly wrong.

Well all athletes are different. To many, a bronze is a fantastic success. The canoe guy who won a bronze yesterday must be thrilled. He had multiple generations of Olympians in his family but he's the first to win an Olympic medal.

But you can't help but think a guy like Adam van Kouverden (the kayaker) was a tad disappointed he had to settle for Silver yesterday considering he won that even in 2004 and was leading that race until the last few hundred yards.

Usain Bolt would have to feel disappointed if he doesn't win Gold in an hour or so in the 200m or if Jamaica doesn't win the 4x100m tomorrow.

Do you think USA Men's Basketball would be happy with anything less than Gold in these Olympics? Do you think Canada would have been celebrating a Silver in Men's hockey in 2010? I doubt it.

[Guest Manny]

Do you think USA Men's Basketball would be happy with anything less than Gold in these Olympics? Do you think Canada would have been celebrating a Silver in Men's hockey in 2010? I doubt it.

I don't know about USA Men's basketball, but about hockey, yes. Most players at least the younger ones would be honoured to even be on the team. And obviously, the higher the level of recognition (ie, medals) the better it is.

Look at the reaction in women's soccer. What the shooter said, when she scored the GWG. She was so overcome with the emotion of that win, she can't even remember the goal at all. No regrets there.

[Boges]

I don't know about USA Men's basketball, but about hockey, yes. Most players at least the younger ones would be honoured to even be on the team. And obviously, the higher the level of recognition (ie, medals) the better it is.

Look at the reaction in women's soccer. What the shooter said, when she scored the GWG. She was so overcome with the emotion of that win, she can't even remember the goal at all. No regrets there.

You see what happened in 1998 when Canada had to play in a Bronze medal game? They mailed it in. The Hockey players at the Olympics are all Millionaires. They're there for nothing less than Gold.

What made the Women's soccer team so special is they weren't expected to medal and they had a heartbreaking loss to the #1 team in the world partly due to bad officiating. Plus they have arguably the best female soccer player in the world on that team.

[wyly]

I don't know about USA Men's basketball, but about hockey, yes. Most players at least the younger ones would be honoured to even be on the team. And obviously, the higher the level of recognition (ie, medals) the better it is.

that doesn't sound like any canadian hockey team I can recall, nothing less than gold has ever been acceptable even with the Jr's...

Look at the reaction in women's soccer. What the shooter said, when she scored the GWG. She was so overcome with the emotion of that win, she can't even remember the goal at all. No regrets there.

but canada far exceeded expectations...whichever team japan or USA lose the gold medal match today neither will be at all happy or satisfied about "winning" the silver...the americans expect to win every they game they play and Japan as world champions expect nothing less than gold as well...for both sides to lose todays match is failing, not "winning" the silver... Edited August 9, 2012 by wyly

[msj]

This Gold vs Silver vs Bronze thing is ridiculous.

Let's take a look at some research on this issue: Would you rather win Silver or Bronze? (Be Careful What you Wish For).

For decades, psychologists have noted an irony in elite athletic competition: If you set aside the happy people who win gold and look only at the people who come in second and third, it's the men and women with bronze medals who invariably look happier than the athletes who won silver.

Etc etc read the links within the article....

-------------

I like this picture: I came second...why don't you try it once in a while.

(notice this is from "naughty bits" so it is a sex joke but the Olympian really was pissed at winning Silver.)

Edited August 9, 2012 by msj

[Guest Manny]

I like this picture: I came second...why don't you try it once in a while.

Yeah but you know what? Such an attitude does not deserve to be champion. And that's perhaps why she didn't get the gold- can't handle the mental game when the going gets tougher. Got mad, caved under pressure. And that's what made the difference. I seen it so many times in organized sports.

Edited August 9, 2012 by Manny

[wyly]

Yeah but you know what? Such an attitude does not deserve to be champion. And that's perhaps why she didn't get the gold- can't handle the mental game when the going gets tougher. Got mad, caved under pressure. And that's what made the difference. I seen it so many times in organized sports.

that's a wee bit speculative...I always approached competition with the attitude that if you're happy finishing 2nd you probably will...losing is never an option if your focused on the task at hand...

there's lots of different psychological approaches, different methods work for different people...

[msj]

Yeah but you know what? Such an attitude does not deserve to be champion. And that's perhaps why she didn't get the gold- can't handle the mental game when the going gets tougher. Got mad, caved under pressure. And that's what made the difference. I seen it so many times in organized sports.

No, what made the difference is that she slipped.

Happens to everyone in gymnastics at one time or another.

Unfortunately for McKayla Maroney, who was expected to win gold, the slip meant that she won silver instead. Apparently by fractions of points.

As discussed in the link I posted to, this kind of picture is not surprising.

The mind is "drawn upward when it comes to second place and drawn downward when it comes to third -- and that the results are pretty much universal."

[Moonlight Graham]

a few years back I came across an interesting stat...the top 500 fastest 100m times all belong to people of west-african ancestry...the problem for africans is they don't have the cash/opportunity to develop their athletic potential...those living in the western hemisphere mostly americans have those opportunities...

there is a definite genetic advantage to being west african when it comes to sprinting events...while eastern africans have seem to have some genetic advantages when it comes to distance events...

That's very interesting. Never thought of a difference between different regions of Africa. However, aren't most black Westerners West-Africans, since that's where most of the slaves came from during the slave trade? Would this create a bias for well-funded athletes of African decent living in the west? I really don't know, just kinda talking out of my arse here..

[Boges]

That's very interesting. Never thought of a difference between different regions of Africa. However, aren't most black Westerners West-Africans, since that's where most of the slaves came from during the slave trade? Would this create a bias for well-funded athletes of African decent living in the west? I really don't know, just kinda talking out of my arse here..

Well you can't say African American because many are from the Caribbean. As wyly said, you got people from East Africa that do very well in long distance running. I was watching the women's 5000m and the top 6 was Ethiopia, Kenya, Ethiopia, Kenya, Ethiopia, Kenya.

But what about Sub Saharan Africa? Countries like Botswana, Zimbabwe and Namibia?

Interesting to see how many contenders are from Netherlands. There is an island called the Netherland Antilles which no longer exists as an independant nation so the people from there have to compete for the motherland.

[-TSS-]

Is there any particular reason why black people are not good at swimming? It is easy to say that people from African countries may be lagging behind in that sport as it requires pricey investments in swimming halls and other facilities and those countries have more urgent things to spend their money on but it does not explain why black people living in Western-Europe or North-America rarely excel at that sport.

[wyly]

Well you can't say African American because many are from the Caribbean. As wyly said, you got people from East Africa that do very well in long distance running. I was watching the women's 5000m and the top 6 was Ethiopia, Kenya, Ethiopia, Kenya, Ethiopia, Kenya.

here's what I've picked up on the subject over the years...it's genetic/ethnic/cultural...genetic, east africans carry less body mass, there was a study that found east africans had on average smaller calf muscles than other ethnic groups, which may not sound significant but every gm of weight has to be carried over a long distance, the same principle as used in car design lighter cars use less fuel, go faster for longer distances....sprinters need large muscles for explosive speed...playing soccer with africans for 40 plus years I found west africans are "generally" much larger and more powerful than east light weight east africans...

culturally running long distances seems to be part of the east african culture, they understand distance running like canadians understand hockey

But what about Sub Saharan Africa? Countries like Botswana, Zimbabwe and Namibia?

all most all black africans are sub-saharan...southern africans-if my friends from that region are typical are generally smaller than west africans as well, from I've noticed they do fairly well in distance events as well it just doesn't seem to be as big culturally as in east africa...

Interesting to see how many contenders are from Netherlands. There is an island called the Netherland Antilles which no longer exists as an independent nation so the people from there have to compete for the motherland.

former dutch colonies have a weird relationship with the netherlands, they're very dutch and yet they're not...regardless if you see dark skinned dutchman in they're most likely from the Caribbean colonies...

[wyly]

Is there any particular reason why black people are not good at swimming? It is easy to say that people from African countries may be lagging behind in that sport as it requires pricey investments in swimming halls and other facilities and those countries have more urgent things to spend their money on but it does not explain why black people living in Western-Europe or North-America rarely excel at that sport.

swimming is expensive here as well, even poor black kids can run cheaply... I don't know about canada but blacks in the USA are still generally on the bottom end of the economy...my bro-in-law had his son in competitive swimming at a club with professional coaches $3K+ per year as well as the time commitment of constant fund raising and twice daily swim practice...running is a much simpler less expensive sport...

something I learned from working with soccer coaches from other countries, regardless where they're from they all agree the poorest most desperate people make best competitive athletes...they have very few or no options in life sport is their only hope, they work harder, fight harder to succeed... build swimming pools in africa and I suspect we'd see a lot of very competitve swimmers coming from africa...

[waldo]

which begs your assessment of the U.S.A.

nothing quite like occasionally tuning into the U.S. NBC coverage to see just how far grandstanding can be taken... to realize just how skewed the coverage is for the U.S. population. And one of the low points of the games sees a top American coach and director of the World Swimming Association, John Leonard, for all intents and purpose, accuse Chinese swimmer Ye Shiwen of doping. Interesting in that I don't seem to recall anyone labeling Phelps' Beijing performance as 'drug enhanced' - go figure!

wow! U.S. women's 4x400 relay team! New world record... absolutely shattering the record that had stood since 1985... beating the old record by more than a full half-second, which in sprinting terms is almost unfathomable... where records broken are typically measured in 1/10th of seconds difference! Congrats to the U.S. women's 4x400 relay team - one of the London games most memorable achievements... one of race sprinting's most amazing results, ever!

what? No American officials have come forward to sully the accomplishment... laying down suggestions/implications of doping? Surely, the American women sprinters couldn't have brought this result on without a lil' help - surely!

[Boges]

That DQ for team Canada in the 4x100m put a really bad taste in my mouth regarding these Olympics.

First a horse gets DQ'd in Team Show Jumping, then the Women's Soccer thing and now the Men's 4x100 relay team had there flags on their backs and were starting their victory lap for an improbable bronze only to have it yanked from them because one of the runners touched the line.

Sure it's in the rules but that's ticky tack! I remember on the first day a Canadian was supposed to be in a swimming final because a South Korean favourite was DQ'd for a false start and that decision was reversed.

I'll still watch the closing ceremonies tomorrow but it seems like the Officials had it in for Canada in these Olympics.

[-TSS-]

I saw that soccer-match between Canada and the USA and I agree that it was a gross miscarriage of justice.

[RB]

So eight doubles players in badminton get the boot from the Oly's for trying to throw a match to get a better opponent in the medal rounds.(Cjina,Indonesia and I think Korea athletes)

Frankly, not sure how I feel about this.

obviously there are loopholes in the system for players to manipulate and so why not. they need to seriously reconsider how to play off these matches.