Olympics 2012 in London

[Wilber]

you clearly no nothing about human athletics...Ian Millar at age 65 is not an athlete...his horse is the athlete...equestrian events=stupid pet tricks....

bring on flyball, doggie frisbee, sheep herding...

Again you display your ignorance. I bet Millar is in better shape than most 30 year olds. The partnership between horse and rider can take years to develop and in that respect it is no different than any other team sport. Most dressage and jumping horses don't get into their prime until they hit around ten years old. You need a good horse to win but horses beings on their own and are not machines you can just drive like a car, but if you want to make that comparison, its like you saying you could win an F1 race if only you had Alonso's Ferrari.

The three day event is also by far the most dangerous sport in the summer Olympics. More dangerous than auto racing or the X games. We had a rider just avoid a serious back injury in these games and remember Christopher Reeve.

WIKI

Between 1997 and December 2008, at least 37 eventing riders died as a result of injuries incurred while competing in the cross-country phase of eventing at national or international level or at Pony Club. Of these, 18 riders died in the period 2006–2008. These 37 fatal falls have been at all levels of the sport, from domestic one-day events up to regional championships level, and they have occurred in most of the recognized eventing countries around the world, with concentrations in the United Kingdom (14) and the United States (8). At least 25 of these 37 deaths have resulted from a somersaulting (rotational) fall of the horse, with 11 of the 16 deaths in 2007 and 2008 being reported as having resulted from a rotational horse fall. [1]

Most serious eventers have had more broken bones than hockey players their age.

[waldo]

Actually, China is undergoing a similar phase now as did the former Soviet Union or East-Germany in the past where sporting achievements are something to boast about. Probably China will also mature in the future.

which begs your assessment of the U.S.A.

nothing quite like occasionally tuning into the U.S. NBC coverage to see just how far grandstanding can be taken... to realize just how skewed the coverage is for the U.S. population. And one of the low points of the games sees a top American coach and director of the World Swimming Association, John Leonard, for all intents and purpose, accuse Chinese swimmer Ye Shiwen of doping. Interesting in that I don't seem to recall anyone labeling Phelps' Beijing performance as 'drug enhanced' - go figure!

[wyly]

Again you display your ignorance. I bet Millar is in better shape than most 30 year olds. The partnership between horse and rider can take years to develop and in that respect it is no different than any other team sport. Most dressage and jumping horses don't get into their prime until they hit around ten years old. You need a good horse to win but horses beings on their own and are not machines you can just drive like a car, but if you want to make that comparison, its like you saying you could win an F1 race if only you had Alonso's Ferrari.

millar or any other equestrian come no where close to the athleticism required of the other "athletic" sports, equestrians are at the bottom the athletic gene pool along with the skeet shooters, air pistol and other wannabe athletes...65 yr old athlete exactly like F1, if the car sucks the best driver in the world cannot win...the horse is the athlete not the grampa riding it or that other crackhead lamaze...

The three day event is also by far the most dangerous sport in the summer Olympics. More dangerous than auto racing or the X games. We had a rider just avoid a serious back injury in these games and remember Christopher Reeve.

between 600 and 800 cyclists per year are killed in the USA alone...

Most serious eventers have had more broken bones than hockey players their age.

injuries do not define athleticism...

this is a sham sport put in the early days of Olympics in order for the elite of society to take part and no other reason...stupid pet tricks for the wealthy...

[wyly]

which begs your assessment of the U.S.A.

nothing quite like occasionally tuning into the U.S. NBC coverage to see just how far grandstanding can be taken... to realize just how skewed the coverage is for the U.S. population. And one of the low points of the games sees a top American coach and director of the World Swimming Association, John Leonard, for all intents and purpose, accuse Chinese swimmer Ye Shiwen of doping. Interesting in that I don't seem to recall anyone labeling Phelps' Beijing performance as 'drug enhanced' - go figure!

...when it comes to drugs the US is just as guilty as the eastern european countries...

[Wilber]

millar or any other equestrian come no where close to the athleticism required of the other "athletic" sports, equestrians are at the bottom the athletic gene pool along with the skeet shooters, air pistol and other wannabe athletes...65 yr old athlete exactly like F1, if the car sucks the best driver in the world cannot win...the horse is the athlete not the grampa riding it or that other crackhead lamaze...

between 600 and 800 cyclists per year are killed in the USA alone...

injuries do not define athleticism...

this is a sham sport put in the early days of Olympics in order for the elite of society to take part and no other reason...stupid pet tricks for the wealthy...

So in wyly's world a 65 year old cannot be an athlete. There is no skill required to be an athlete, just brute strength and speed.

Ever looked at the size of an F1 drivers neck? They have to withstand over 5 G's during cornering. 1.5 G's during acceleration and 4 G's under braking, multiple times a lap over many laps, often at temperatures well over 30 degrees for up to two hours, guiding a missile around a winding track at up to 200 mph. But they aren't athletes because they are sitting down and the car is doing all the work, right?

Unlike race drivers, equestrians don't get to practice a course, they get to see it and walk it but the first time the horse sees it is in competition, but the rider has nothing to do with the result, right? Equestrians also have to train hard if they want to get to the top. When you see a small woman taking a big horse around a jumping course, one of the reasons she can is strength.

Those eventing fatalities were in one form of organized competition on a closed course, not just anyone falling off a horse. How many cyclists die in competition? Equestrians have a lot farther to fall and cyclists don't have any risk of a 1000 lb animal falling on top of them.

Nothing to do with an elite society although it is expensive, equestrian sports had their origins in the military, not rich elites. Most riders work their way up like any other athlete. We have some friends who's daughter went to Atlanta in the three day event. Just regular middle class folks both holding down jobs, fund raising and looking for sponsors so their kid could realize her dream.

She finally found her horse in New Zealand but they couldn't afford to do it on their own. A friend stepped in and partnered with them on the condition that if the horse was ever sold, they might recoup some of their investment. She moved to Quebec in order to compete at a higher level, living on the poverty line, driving beaters and getting herself and her horse to events any way she could, most of the top level ones being in the US. After several years she finally made the team and went to the Olympics. The horse never did get sold. When its competition days were over it spent the rest of its life as a pet. The partner was fine with that because he wasn't in it for the money anyway.

Because she was an Olympian she can now make a living training horses and instructing but she is still looking for that next horse to train that will get her to another Olympics. Hauling the old gooseneck horse trailer her dad rebuilt with her 10 year old diesel pickup, she travels up and down the west competing with her young horses hoping to get one to a level where she can make another national team, usually offsetting some of her costs by transporting a couple of other competitors horses as well. So when you see someone riding in the Olympics, chances are they got there in a similar way, not because they were rich.

Ian Millar didn't get where he is because he was born with a silver spoon in his mouth, he did it with talent, brains and a lot of hard work. He didn't buy his way into the Olympics, he had to qualify like everyone else. When you see an anomaly like him, pay attention because you are seeing something special. He is still there because he is that good.

Edited August 6, 2012 by Wilber

[wyly]

So in wyly's world a 65 year old cannot be an athlete. There is no skill required to be an athlete, just brute strength and speed.

Ever looked at the size of an F1 drivers neck? They have to withstand over 5 G's during cornering. 1.5 G's during acceleration and 4 G's under braking, multiple times a lap over many laps, often at temperatures well over 30 degrees for up to two hours, guiding a missile around a winding track at up to 200 mph. But they aren't athletes because they are sitting down and the car is doing all the work, right?

and how many 65 yr old F1 drivers are there? and how well did 43yr old former 7 time world F1 champion Michael Schumacher do in F1 this past season? zero wins... and this years winner is 25 yrs old and ages of the six previous winners seasons winners 24-29-23-27-25-24 see any grandpas in that list, athletics is a young mans game and even then regardless how good those drivers were the best car was the difference ...

when a 65 yr old can compete on even terms with a 25 yr old that's the give away it's an sport activity that requires very, very, very little athletic ability, a 65yr old regardless of fitness level CANNOT compete with 25yr old athletes...that puts equestrian on a level with lawn darts and horse shoe tossing, bowling and snooker...

equestrian=stupid pet tricks=not an athletic sport...unless you're a horse...

Edited August 6, 2012 by wyly

[msj]

equestrian=stupid pet tricks=not an athletic sport...unless you're a horse...

Good thing it's called the Olympic Games rather than the Olympic Sports or Olympic Athletic Events.

[wyly]

Good thing it's called the Olympic Games rather than the Olympic Sports or Olympic Athletic Events.

ya bring on darts and shuffleboard let those 65yr old grampas from the local pub dazzle us with with their athletic ability...and we know it must be a sport because of how often they break a hip when they fall...

Edited August 6, 2012 by wyly

[msj]

ya bring on darts and shuffleboard let those 65yr old grampas from the local pub dazzle us with with their athletic ability...

Sure, if it makes it through the IOC rules to be included then why not?

But they won't make it through so why the ignorant comment.

Oh, wait....

[wyly]

Sure, if it makes it through the IOC rules to be included then why not?

Oh, wait....

oh ya silly games non athletic sports never get admitted... :lol:

But they won't make it through so why the ignorant comment.

hy·poc·ri·sy

1.

a pretense of having a virtuous character, moral or religious beliefs or principles, etc., that one does not really possess.

I just follow your trolling lead on nearly every thread you post in...

[Wilber]

and how many 65 yr old F1 drivers are there? and how well did 43yr old former 7 time world F1 champion Michael Schumacher do in F1 this past season? zero wins... and this years winner is 25 yrs old and ages of the six previous winners seasons winners 24-29-23-27-25-24 see any grandpas in that list, athletics is a young mans game and even then regardless how good those drivers were the best car was the difference ...

when a 65 yr old can compete on even terms with a 25 yr old that's the give away it's an sport activity that requires very, very, very little athletic ability, a 65yr old regardless of fitness level CANNOT compete with 25yr old athletes...that puts equestrian on a level with lawn darts and horse shoe tossing, bowling and snooker...

equestrian=stupid pet tricks=not an athletic sport...unless you're a horse...

Schumacher is only number ten on the list of oldest champions. The oldest race winner was 55. Don't feel too bad for old Micheal, Mercedes still thinks he is worth 8M Euros a year plus bonuses. The whole team isn't doing very well with only one win this year from their 27 year old.

What is it with you anyway, do you think anyone over 30 should be banned from sports? You won't see many 25 year olds at the top level of equestrian sports but I guess you figure the longer it takes to learn a sport, the less of a sport it is.

[-TSS-]

China now two gold medals ahead of the USA by 31-29. The UK will be third in the medal-table, Korea is trailing them by seven gold medals, which is too much. 70 countries have won medals thus far so about 2/3 of the participating countries have yet to win their first medal. Most of them can't do it. If you live in a country which gets umpteen medals you easily lose the sense of perspective how hard it is to win even one medal.

[Bonam]

China now two gold medals ahead of the USA by 31-29. The UK will be third in the medal-table, Korea is trailing them by seven gold medals, which is too much. 70 countries have won medals thus far so about 2/3 of the participating countries have yet to win their first medal. Most of them can't do it. If you live in a country which gets umpteen medals you easily lose the sense of perspective how hard it is to win even one medal.

It's not the countries that win the medals, it's the athletes.

[wyly]

Schumacher is only number ten on the list of oldest champions. The oldest race winner was 55. Don't feel too bad for old Micheal, Mercedes still thinks he is worth 8M Euros a year plus bonuses. The whole team isn't doing very well with only one win this year from their 27 year old.

those days are loooooong gone, the days of grandpas in F1 have gone with the dinosaurs...those grandpas wouldn't even get a ride today, the science of sport has come along ways since then...just not in fancy horsie riding however...

What is it with you anyway, do you think anyone over 30 should be banned from sports? You won't see many 25 year olds at the top level of equestrian sports but I guess you figure the longer it takes to learn a sport, the less of a sport it is.

as age goes up past peak years physical performances decreases.... in athletics you don't get better as you join the geriatric gang...there's a reason former athletes become coaches THEY'RE OLD AND THEY SUCK...equestrians don't have that problem because they're NOT athletes, their horses are...

[Bonam]

those days are loooooong gone, the days of grandpas in F1 have gone with the dinosaurs

...

there's a reason former athletes become coaches THEY'RE OLD AND THEY SUCK...

Just curious, do you "debate" the way you do because you are incapable of phrasing things with even a modicum of maturity and respect, or because you choose not to? I'm just wondering if you have a "disability" of some sort (a real one, not the kind you suggested people that know more than one language have in the education thread) that causes you to always write in this manner? If so, perhaps you deserve a little slack.

Edited August 7, 2012 by Bonam

[Boges]

Well what wyly is ignoring is that there are sports in the Olympics like shooting and archery that don't require you to be a top athlete, you just need a certain skill. I think someone competed in archer this year who was blind.

Golf is coming into the Olympics in 2016. Out of shape guys like Angel Cabrerra and John Daly can win majors in Golf. You can be in your 40's or 50's and win. Look at Ernie Els winning the British Open a few weeks ago. 3 years ago Tom Watson came a playoff away from winning a major golf tournament he was 60. That being said, Golf is probably the hardest thing I've ever tried to do. And training and riding a horse is not easy no matter how old you are.

Of course I'm sure wyly's response is that none of these sports should be included either. But there's no steadfast definition of what's an Olympics sport.

I think the idea is there's a lively international field of people that compete in the sport. Which is why American Football will never be in the games, as well as a certain popularity. Exactly we never saw women's ski jumping included in 2010.

BTW regarding auto racing it's an advantage to be fit but you certainly don't have to be. Look at Tony Stewart in Nascar. Mario Andretti raced Indycar when he was at an advanced age as well. In auto sports more than anything it's the car you're driving over anything. Look at what happened to Jacque Villeneuve once he was forced to drive on a lesser team.

Edited August 7, 2012 by Boges

[Boges]

Earlier in this thread we were talking about corrupt Soccer officials. Well Canadians saw a good example of this in yesterdays Canada v USA game. Well either that or incompetence.

Canada was up 3-2 with 10 minutes to go and the US was given a free kick inside their penalty zone. The US player kicked the ball at a Canadians arm and then a Penalty shot was given. The US later scored with 2 minutes left in Overtime.

Pretty shitty way for Canada to lose.

http://www.cbc.ca/olympics/soccer/story/2012/08/06/sp-olympics-soccer-women-canada-usa-day-10.html?cmp=rss

McLeod said Norwegian referee Christiana Pedersen told her that she had held the ball for 10 seconds.

"Not even close," McLeod replied.

Sinclair pleaded with Pedersen to reconsider.

"She actually giggled and said nothing," Sinclair said. "Classy."

Sinclair felt the Canadians were robbed of a victory.

"Obviously, we're disappointed and upset. We felt that the referee took it away from us, so, yes, we are disappointed. We feel like we didn't lose, we feel like it was taken from us. It's a shame in a game like that, which is so important, that the ref decided the result before the game started."

In fact, every one of the Canadians was seething.

"I just don't think any of us could believe what happened, that's why we didn't leave [the field] probably," said Melissa Tancredi, her lip quivering as she tried to fight off the tears. "I just didn't want to leave because I just couldn't believe that's what happened. That was our game, that was our win to have. And it was just taken away."

Edited August 7, 2012 by Boges

[wyly]

Well what wyly is ignoring is that there are sports in the Olympics like shooting and archery that don't require you to be a top athlete, you just need a certain skill. I think someone competed in archer this year who was blind.

I haven't ignored those "sports", I don't think they require sufficient(any) athleticism to be included in the Olympics they're physically no more challenging than bowling...I suggested that a degree of athleticism be added to the events such as is required in Biathlon...make them run 2K cross country before they fire off their bows or guns, then make them do the same again 3 or four more times...

Golf is coming into the Olympics in 2016. Out of shape guys like Angel Cabrerra and John Daly can win majors in Golf. You can be in your 40's or 50's and win. Look at Ernie Els winning the British Open a few weeks ago. 3 years ago Tom Watson came a playoff away from winning a major golf tournament he was 60. That being said, Golf is probably the hardest thing I've ever tried to do. And training and riding a horse is not easy no matter how old you are.

Of course I'm sure wyly's response is that none of these sports should be included either. But there's no steadfast definition of what's an Olympics sport.

you may recall there was considerable controversy when curling was admitted to the winter games, participants were asked to lose weight as the girth reflected badly on the games as an athletic competition....

I think the idea is there's a lively international field of people that compete in the sport. Which is why American Football will never be in the games, as well as a certain popularity. Exactly we never saw women's ski jumping included in 2010.

yet cricket is not in the games, some would argue that it's the worlds 2nd most popular sport after soccer...where has rugby been, a huge amount of athleticism and popular in more countries and with more participants than many Olympic sports(rugby 7s is included in the 2016 games, long overdue)

BTW regarding auto racing it's an advantage to be fit but you certainly don't have to be. Look at Tony Stewart in Nascar. Mario Andretti raced Indycar when he was at an advanced age as well. In auto sports more than anything it's the car you're driving over anything. Look at what happened to Jacque Villeneuve once he was forced to drive on a lesser team.

those days where age doesn't matter are going, NASCAR and Indycar are not at the same level as F1 so slower to change to what F1 has discovered, youth physical/fitness matters...F1 teams are now recruiting future drivers as young as 12-13... Edited August 7, 2012 by wyly

[Boges]

I haven't ignored those "sports", I don't think they require sufficient(any) athleticism to be included in the Olympics they're physically no more challenging than bowling...I suggested that a degree of athleticism be added to the events such as is required in Biathlon...make them run 2K cross country before they fire off their bows or guns, then make them do the same again 3 or four more times...

Again just because you believe sports are unworthy of the Olympics doesn't mean there is any appetite to remove them OR that the IOC think that it would be a good idea. Any evidence that any of these sports you don't like stand any chance of being removed?

Women's Ice Hockey has more chance of being pulled than Equestrian.

yet cricket is not in the games, some would argue that it's the worlds 2nd most popular sport after soccer...where has rugby been, a huge amount of athleticism and popular in more countries and with more participants than many Olympic sports(rugby 7s is included in the 2016 games, long overdue)

The international version of cricket takes 5 days to complete. The more condensed version (T-20) is more of a club level sport. It's an international sport but still, only perhaps 10 nations really compete at the highest level. Plus one of the top teams is a compilation of West Indian players from many different nations, how would that work?

The second most popular participation sport in the world is actually volleyball. Look how many nations compete on an international level in that sport. Turkey, Cuba, China, Japan, Brazil, USA, All of Europe. It's a truly international sport.

those days where age doesn't matter are going, NASCAR and Indycar are not at the same level as F1 so slower to change to what F1 has discovered, youth physical/fitness matters...F1 teams are now recruiting future drivers as young as 12-13...

F1 cars don't go nearly as fast as Indycar or Nascar racecars. You would need a younger person to withstand the the G forces involved in auto racing. Going 200 miles an our on a super speedway is far more dangerous and intensive on the body than going around Silverstone.

Edited August 7, 2012 by Boges

[wyly]

Earlier in this thread we were talking about corrupt Soccer officials. Well Canadians saw a good example of this in yesterdays Canada v USA game. Well either that or incompetence.

Canada was up 3-2 with 10 minutes to go and the US was given a free kick inside their penalty zone. The US player kicked the ball at a Canadians arm and then a Penalty shot was given. The US later scored with 2 minutes left in Overtime.

Pretty shitty way for Canada to lose.

incompetence...this is a problem I have with FIFA and women's soccer, FIFA wants to be politically correct and have women officiate women's matches regardless if they're competent...a game of this level they should've had the best referee available which would likely been an experienced male, had they brought in a male official from England's premier league that call is never made...I was stunned, when it was made I had no idea what the call was and neither did the match commentators, there was no blatant infringement of the time wasting rule...

she made a call (time wasting) that I can't recall I've seen called more than 2 or 3 times in 40 yrs of playing and coaching and never by an experienced official, it's a rule that is place to serve as a tool for the official in case there is blatant abuse, certainly never to be used in a match of this significance...the earlier match of the day saw obvious time wasting by the Japanese but no warning was given or call made because it's just not done...rules of soccer are a guideline, players are given given a certain amount of leeway, if every infraction were to be called the game would come to a standstill...

as for the penalty shot, the guide for officials is "hand to ball not ball to hand"...if the player moves the hand to the ball or has the arms extended from the body it is a foul...if the players hand/arms are close to body and the player has no opportunity to move the hands/arms away then there is no foul(they're also allowed to shield themselves from the shot to prevent injury)...at the range the shot was taken the defenders had no chance to move their hands away, so no call should've been made...

Edited August 7, 2012 by wyly

[Wilber]

To me a sport is something that requires a combination of physical ability, coordination and skill. The first you can train for, the second is genes and the third has to be learned. All of the present Olympic sports fit that description. Call me when they include video games, then I'm on wyly's side.

Some sports take a lot longer to learn than others. Even within athletics, competitors peak at different ages in different disciplines. Distance runners peak later than sprinters for example. Simon Whitfield should have been over the hill when he won his triathlon silver at Beijing. The guy he lost to by 5 seconds was six years younger.

If forty year old can whip a twenty five year old at a sport, good on him. Give credit where credit is due, don't trash the whole sport. That's the whiners way.

While fitness isn't as important in golf, most golfers are pretty fit these days. Anyone who plays knows it is the most difficult game there is. It my not be the most physically demanding game but it is depressing how easily a small physical problem can ruin a golf swing.

Sport is as much about what goes on between the ears as physical ability and that is what separates the real champions from the rest. How many of Schumacher's or Alonso's teammates won championships? Why not, they were driving the same cars for the same teams. Stirling Moss made his reputation beating the big factory teams driving private entrant cars owned by Rob Walker. That wasn't the equipment.

Equipment is important in a lot of sports. You are nowhere in alpine skiing if you don't have the best equipment and factory support. Even then you can lose if the team screws up on waxing. What are your chances in bobsled without the best equipment?

If the Olympic motto was taken literally, there would only be three sports. Weight lifting, sprinting and high jumping. All preparation and physical ability, no strategy or tactics and other than the ability to psych oneself up, not much else required mentally. Should we get rid of all judged sports, after all their performance can't be physically measured. While I really admire what many of them do and enjoy watching them display their skills, I'm not fond of the concept.

The intention in NASCAR is to make all the cars as close as possible so when Tony Stewart wins a championship, yes, a lot of it is the driver and yes it is a sport. The only way you can measure skill and ability is in competition. Stewart may not be the fittest NASCAR driver but put them all in a weight room and my guess is he wouldn't come last. But weight lifting isn't their sport.

[Boges]

yet cricket is not in the games, some would argue that it's the worlds 2nd most popular sport after soccer...where has rugby been, a huge amount of athleticism and popular in more countries and with more participants than many Olympic sports(rugby 7s is included in the 2016 games, long overdue)

Another point here. Much like Men's Soccer, Cricket and Rugby have large World Cups to determine the best international teams in the sport. An Olympics Tournament would be a sideshow. Sort of like the Men's Olympics Soccer tournament which is no more than a JV tournament. I saw Honduras hanging with Brazil in a game earlier this week.

When it comes to other sports like Men's Ice Hockey and Men's Basketball, the Olympics are a better method of determining the the top International nation because a 1 and half week tournament is a lot more do-able in those sports rather than the one-month extravaganzas the Soccer, Cricket and Rugby World Cups are.

Baseball has tried the World Baseball Classic to determine the best international team with mixed success because the Baseball season is so long that early spring is the only way to avoid conflicting with the club level of the sport. And even then it's so close to Spring Training that many of the best players don't play and/or don't really care about the result all that much.

Edited August 7, 2012 by Boges

[wyly]

Again just because you believe sports are unworthy of the Olympics doesn't mean there is any appetite to remove them OR that the IOC think that it would be a good idea. Any evidence that any of these sports you don't like stand any chance of being removed?

Women's Ice Hockey has more chance of being pulled than Equestrian.

I could understand women's hockey being pulled because it's not very competitive, it's essentially only two countries...the IOC has pulled sports before and there's no reason not to do so again...

The international version of cricket takes 5 days to complete. The more condensed version (T-20) is more of a club level sport. It's an international sport but still, only perhaps 6 or 7 nations really compete at the highest level. Plus one of the top teams is a compilation of West Indian players from many different nations, how would that work?

The second most popular participation sport in the world is actually volleyball. Look how many nations compete on an international level in that sport. Turkey, Cuba, China, Japan, Brazil, USA, All of Europe. It's a truly international sport.

the ICC(International Cricket Council) has 106 members it is a very international sport by any standard...volleyball 2nd? that's the first I've heard that participation...cricket is certainly more popular then women's or even men's hockey...

F1 cars don't go nearly as fast as Indycar or Nascar racecars. You would need a younger person to withstand the the G forces involved in auto racing. Going 200 miles an our on a super speedway is far more dangerous and intensive on the body than going around Silverstone.

NASCAR-turn left, turn left, turn left, turn left and on a banked track...road courses require a higher level of driving ability...if speed determined the better driver then drag racers are much better than NASCAR and I don't think anyone is going to make that claim...

Top speed NASCAR-

Michigan International Speedway in 2012 set the stage for Marcos Ambrose to shatter the old track record by nearly nine MPH. His lap of 203.241 MPH in June of 2012

top speed F1-

Italian Grand Prix 2004, Antônio Pizzonia of the BMW WilliamsF1 team recorded a top speed of 369.9 km/h (229.8 mph).[20]

and you make the same argument as wilber that injuries/deaths are significant sign of athletic ability...they're more a comment of safety than ability, F! has had 36 deaths over the years NASCAR about 46, but NASCAR has many more cars involved as well, so it's fairly even...

Edited August 7, 2012 by wyly

[guyser]

To me a sport is something that requires a combination of physical ability, coordination and skill.

Correct you are Sir.

Want to hear about a no skill sport?

Become a goalie in soccer, averasge just shy of 13 shots a game. one every 7 minutes. Any idiot can do that job ......right?

[Boges]

I could understand women's hockey being pulled because it's not very competitive, it's essentially only two countries...the IOC has pulled sports before and there's no reason not to do so again...

Sure, but you have yet to provide any evidence that any of the many events or sports you've slagged in this thread stand any chance of being yanked from the Olympics.

The 200m final is soon, people seem pretty pumped to watch that. Just because Usian Bolt is favoured in both the 100 and the 200 events doesn't mean the IOC is going to reconsider having it in the Olympics.

the ICC(International Cricket Council) has 106 members it is a very international sport by any standard...volleyball 2nd? that's the first I've heard that participation...cricket is certainly more popular then women's or even men's hockey...

I looked it up. There are 10 nations that compete in Test Cricket: The 5 day version. In a Cricket World Cup those 10 teams get an automatic bids and other nations (like Canada) can qualify.

The version they play in the World cup limits each inning to 50 over (6 bowls an over). The flashy club Cricket you see being played in India has a 20 over limit. Interestingly I've heard the IPL cricket music being played at the Beach Volleyball venue at these Olympics.

Just like with Men's Soccer (at its highest level) and proper Rugby (not 7's), I don't believe Cricket needs to be in the Olympics to further it's exposure or to determine the best team in the world. The World Cups do that nicely.

NASCAR-turn left, turn left, turn left, turn left and on a banked track...road courses require a higher level of driving ability...if speed determined the better driver then drag racers are much better than NASCAR and I don't think anyone is going to make that claim...

Top speed NASCAR-

top speed F1-

The skill set required to take a car that can go 200 mph around a banked oval 2 or 3 wide is different than that of driving an F1 car around a road course.

Indycar is hybrid of both sports.

I think a good comparison would be the differences between Road Racing, (a la Tour de France) Mountain Biking and Track Cycling in a Velodrome. All use a bike, all require vastly different skill sets.

Edited August 7, 2012 by Boges