Prevailing and average wages?

[j44]

http://www.thestar.com/iphone/opinion/editorials/article/1168905--two-tiered-wage-system-announced-by-tories

I know this is an opinion piece but what is this 'prevailing wage' and did the government previously tell employers in certain sectors that they had to pay people the 'average wage?'

I'm not sure I understand this. Wouldn't employers pay minimum wage to a lot of manual laborers (immigrant or not) because that is what they can fill those positions with? I didnt think the gov. told them they must pay above minimum wage.

I is confused.

[CPCFTW]

It's basically saying that lots of Canadians think they're too good to work for minimum wage because they borrowed 30k to have a four year vacation of drunken partying and reading Shakespeare. Now employers will be able to bring in temporary foreign workers who don't overvalue their degree in reading and writing.

[Guest Manny]

It means they can pay less to foreign workers compared to other workers doing the same job in the same organization.

Here's a nice little tidbit:

labour leaders warned that the wage cut would bring down the pay scale for all workers and make it harder for Canadians to compete for jobs in their own country.

Clearly, given the choice employer would prefer to hire foreign workers under these rules.

[BubberMiley]

It's basically saying that lots of Canadians think they're too good to work for minimum wage because they borrowed 30k to have a four year vacation of drunken partying and reading Shakespeare. Now employers will be able to bring in temporary foreign workers who don't overvalue their degree in reading and writing.

It means, as demonstrated above, that conservatives want workers to make less money, and if they have to bring in more competition to bring down the middle class, they will.

[eyeball]

Foreign temp workers man oil rigs, serve coffee at Tim Hortons, harvest crops and work in fish processing plants.

Never mind my country it's too late for that, but I would like my economy back.

I'm pretty sure this means war and the only tangible enemy I see is the 1% and the government that represents it. Unfortunately the only weapon I have is anarchy.

Anyone have any suggestions on how to best use it?

Edited April 28, 2012 by eyeball

[bush_cheney2004]

...Anyone have any suggestions on how to best use it?

Murder...suicide?

[eyeball]

Murder...suicide?

That seems to be Harper's strategy, unfortunately the process is going to take another 4 years or so.

I don't think we can wait that long.

Edited April 28, 2012 by eyeball

[bush_cheney2004]

...I don't think we can wait that long.

You don't have to...you asked what you could do...right now.

[Jack Weber]

It means, as demonstrated above, that conservatives want workers to make less money, and if they have to bring in more competition to bring down the middle class, they will.

Correct...

And the champions of Freidamnite/Von Hayek/Von Mises economic theory claim Marxism is about wealth redistribution...

So is this upwards distributive system...By making people poorer and concentrating wealth into the hands of the few at the top with Authoritarian Capitalism (see Fascism) as its preferred political model...

[eyeball]

I don't think we can wait that long.

And maybe we won't have to...

I'm usually loath to cite Margaret Wente but depraved times call for depraved measures I guess.

The Great Reset has hit the professional classes too.

The professional-class bubble is bursting

[Michael Hardner]

It's basically saying that lots of Canadians think they're too good to work for minimum wage because they borrowed 30k to have a four year vacation of drunken partying and reading Shakespeare. Now employers will be able to bring in temporary foreign workers who don't overvalue their degree in reading and writing.

Really. What percentage of Unemployed are you talking about here?

[TheNewTeddy]

Someone working Minimum Wage in Ontario makes a whole $21,300

Before taxes.

[Argus]

I'm in a strange place on these sorts of discussions. As a conservative, I truly believe that a business owner should only pay what he HAS to do get a worker. The more he pays above that, the less profit he makes. And the business of business is profit. It's profits that make a business a success, and allow it to expand, and then hire more workers. This is not just theory, it's absolute fact. And we need business to be successful, which then means we need them to be profitable.

However, the problem here is that when you look abroad, and to the economic levels of societies abroad, you find a far, far lower standard of living, and thus even educated and skilled members of those societies can only look with envy at the wages to be earned in a place like Canada. No matter how far Canadians lower their expectations and wage demands, we will never be able to compete with employees from a third world country. Not unless we want Canada to BE a third world country, in terms of living standards.

I think the whole temporary worker program is against the interests of Canadians. I agree with Jason Kenney when he said it was ridiculous for us to be bringing in temporary workers while there are hundreds of thousands of unemployed. I agree that people who turn down job offers should lose their unemployment benefits* But I also believe that business needs to train up workers, not hire from abroad because they are cheaper. And this is the disconnect. The underlying assumption that profitable business is good for Canada is nullified when that business expands with the profits used by employing foreign workers, only to hire more foreign workers. Not only is this not good for Canadian workers, but we must remember that those foreign workers save every penny of their wages they can in order to take it back to their home countries with them. Again, not good for Canada as a whole.

Finlay's announcement of allowing a lower wage for temporary workers sets up a simple and profitable task for employers. They must seek Canadian workers, and can offer them less than what the going rate is. When few come forward, they can use this as justification for bringing in foreign workers and pay them less than the going rate. As enough businesses do this -- and they WILL do this because it will increase their profits - that will inevitably lower wages across the board, for Canadian workers. Of course, then they will simply lower their offers in order to continue to pay foreign temp workers still less. This leads to a downward path few in Canada would see as beneficial to us as a whole.

* Assuming the job offer is in keeping with the prospective employee's income level and skill-set. I would not expect an unemployed software engineer to give up his search for work in his field in order to work in a farmer's field.

[punked]

I hope this leads to more unionization of workers to force employers in these sectors to pay Canadians what they are worth. The government just made it a whole lot easier to unionize in sectors that haven't seen a real push for this in years. This government is looking at the whole picture and they are going to get what they are asking for.

[dre]

Really. What percentage of Unemployed are you talking about here?

I guess hell have to tally up the magical and whimsical people that live inside his head!

[Michael Hardner]

I guess hell have to tally up the magical and whimsical people that live inside his head!

Shakespearian scholarship is RUINING OUR ECONOMY !

[dre]

Shakespearian scholarship is RUINING OUR ECONOMY !

If coffee is bad for computer keyboards then youre liable for the damages.

[Michael Hardner]

Thread drift... my fault... but my favourite LOL moment on here was when I replied to a poster who asked "What is Maple Leaf Web ?"

I posted a link to this very website...

[eyeball]

I'm in a strange place on these sorts of discussions.

You should try partaking in these discussions while also trying to make a living in the twisted place I'm in.

We're losing yet another 70 to 100 small boats and licences in my region. The last 2 boats I've run were bought up by American fishermen who are gearing up for some of the biggest salmon returns they've seen in decades, all the way from California to Alaska.

Amidst all this one might ask how is it that the Americans have so much growth occurring in their fishing industry and coastal communities and our's is in such a shambles, the answer is simple, their fish, the ecosystems they live in and the coastal economy these sustain are not being mismanaged from Ottawa. In the US these are managed regionally at the state and local level and they've invested in restoring their salmon runs and better protecting the habitat salmon live in. Ottawa is to this day however still in the process of washing it's hands of us, our fish our ecosystems and our region's economy. Note they plan on turning an even blinder eye to habitat protection while allowing Alberta to plow it's tar-pipe through some 600 of our fish bearing streams.

This leads to a downward path few in Canada would see as beneficial to us as a whole.

I have to seriously wonder how many Canadians give a damn myself. As many posters here will recall I've been warning about Ottawa's mismanagement of our environment and economy for years. Interestingly enough I've been poo'ed on, laughed at and told to quit whining and relocate for just as many years. I've also pointed out how Canada's dying fishing communities like canaries in a coal mine, are a good indicator of where the rest of Canada's economy and society is headed too. So with that in mind I suspect you'll see even more pooing and laughing at people who are concerned about Ottawa's power to control our environments and our livelihoods.

From where I'm sitting the race to the bottom has always had an abundance of Canadian fans cheering it on.

Edited April 29, 2012 by eyeball

[Argus]

You should try partaking in these discussions while also trying to make a living in the twisted place I'm in.

We're losing yet another 70 to 100 small boats and licences in my region. The last 2 boats I've run were bought up by American fishermen who are gearing up for some of the biggest salmon returns they've seen in decades, all the way from California to Alaska.

This is thread drift, of course, but I can't help wondering why the coastal provinces aren't making more noise about this, and aren't agitating to take over themselves then. Also, why are so many government MPs being elected from the coastal regions?

[Topaz]

This is one crazy government! They want to bring in foreign workers pay them less and IF they found Canadians that would or could do the job, pay them the same wage THEN, the Bank of Canada warns Canadians about household debt is getting too high... well, if one had a good paying job and lost it, $9-10.00 isn't going to improve that debt! Depending were one lives, many new jobs are less than 40 hours, more to 20. Another point, from people who went out to Alberta to work then came back say its very expensive to live, so were are these foreign workers going to live, if they can find a place and how is low wage going to cover living expenses.

[bush_cheney2004]

.... Another point, from people who went out to Alberta to work then came back say its very expensive to live, so were are these foreign workers going to live, if they can find a place and how is low wage going to cover living expenses.

They do it the way they have always done it...by being "working poor". What a novel idea! Try it sometime...it builds character. You don't need cable TV or a cell phone account to survive.

[eyeball]

This is thread drift, of course, but I can't help wondering why the coastal provinces aren't making more noise about this, and aren't agitating to take over themselves then.

We screamed our heads off. Canada barely heard a thing. Those who did listen mostly poo'ed all over the idea of letting us yokels take anything over.

Also, why are so many government MPs being elected from the coastal regions?

Speaking for my own electoral area it was restructured and an influx of retired senior citizens resulted in a higher number of conservative voters than it used to have.

People who used to live and work here have almost pretty much all moved away. They should have know they could run but never hide from Ottawa...it's everywhere.

This is not thread drift in the least.

Edited April 30, 2012 by eyeball

[Michael Hardner]

We screamed our heads off. Canada barely heard a thing. Those who did listen mostly poo'ed all over the idea of letting us yokels take anything over.

The manufacturers also screamed their heads off. So did the high tech people who lost their jobs in droves in the 2000s and had their wages pushed down.

Elections are fought over a handful of television-based wedge issues that come up during the media campaigns.

[Boges]

Another point, from people who went out to Alberta to work then came back say its very expensive to live, so were are these foreign workers going to live, if they can find a place and how is low wage going to cover living expenses.

As opposed to living in higher employment parts of Ontario? I highly doubt that.