CBC cuts 650 jobs and wants to advertise now

[bush_cheney2004]

there must be some distinction to press you forward in continuing to natter on about "Canadian government control of the CBC".

Please start another thread if you wish to pursue this matter, as it not the main topic of this thread. Canada's state financed and controlled broadcaster mission is directly impacted by budget cuts (with resulting layoffs) and policy mandates as exhibited above, confirming my position.

[waldo]

Please start another thread if you wish to pursue this matter, as it not the main topic of this thread. Canada's state financed and controlled broadcaster mission is directly impacted by budget cuts (with resulting layoffs) and policy mandates as exhibited above, confirming my position.

if... if your "CBC government controlled, state broadcaster" premise is correct, funding cuts affecting that "state broadcasting" is/should be of concern/interest to those who accept your premise; i.e., relevant and related to this thread. Accordingly, it's most apropos to question your premise and your self-described and annointed "position confirmation"... the one you've been flogging and nattering on about across multiple threads... forevah!

your use of the phrase, the loaded phrase, "state broadcaster", reafirms the point that your principle reason for continuing to purposely refer to the CBC as "government controlled" has nothing whatsoever to do with your most recent shuck-and-jive cover seeking that references the Canadian Broadcasting Act. This is further amplified by your absolute unwillingness to acknowledge comparative likeness to the U.S. Congressional legislation mandating the creation/operation of the U.S. Corporation for Public Broadcasting (CPB).

you've been asked repeatedly to provide distinction between the CBC public broadcaster and the U.S. CPB funding/control of U.S. public telecommunications. You refuse... accordingly, per your prior insistence in self-annointing your "confirmed position", I hereby, in kind, self-annoint my position that your ongoing and purposely intended "CBC government controlled" wording is nothing more than an ongoing repeat of the/your ongoing substance/support lacking (aka bellicose nattering) of your failed/incorrect premise.

[bush_cheney2004]

if... if your "CBC government controlled, state broadcaster" premise is correct, funding cuts affecting that "state broadcasting" is/should be of concern/interest to those who accept your premise; i.e., relevant and related to this thread. Accordingly, it's most apropos to question your premise and your self-described and annointed "position confirmation"... the one you've been flogging and nattering on about across multiple threads... forevah!

The CBC story announcing layoffs only confirms my nattering position.

...This is further amplified by your absolute unwillingness to acknowledge comparative likeness to the U.S. Congressional legislation mandating the creation/operation of the U.S. Corporation for Public Broadcasting (CPB).

Comparisons to PBS and the CPB can be made, but obviously there are several distinct differences that erode any such direct likeness. PBS (and NPR) have very different funding channels, and clearly do not get $1 billion per year in the federal budget for a country with ten times the population. More importantly, I am not aware of any PBS/NPR equivalent language laws and restrictions, CRTC "cultural protection", sports monopoly (for Leafs games...now gone), and other peculiarities mandated by government for a state radio and television broadcaster. The CPB is not a "crown corporation"...it is not owned by a monarch, but rather is a private non-profit corporation.

you've been asked repeatedly to provide distinction between the CBC public broadcaster and the U.S. CPB funding/control of U.S. public telecommunications. You refuse... accordingly, per your prior insistence in self-annointing your "confirmed position", I hereby, in kind, self-annoint my position that your ongoing and purposely intended "CBC government controlled" wording is nothing more than an ongoing repeat of the/your ongoing substance/support lacking (aka bellicose nattering) of your failed/incorrect premise.

I have repeatedly backed up such claims with the facts of CBC's very existence, funding, and mandate. That you and others choose to ignore or accept such evidence is not my burden or concern. Clearly the CBC is Canada's state broadcaster and defined as such, and yet you bristle even at this obvious circumstance.

Edited April 11, 2014 by bush_cheney2004

[Michael Hardner]

I have repeatedly backed up such claims with the facts of CBC's very existence, funding, and mandate.

Indeed, evidence of the claim was provided in this thread. This means it's a discussion.

[waldo]

Indeed, evidence of the claim was provided in this thread. This means it's a discussion.

please refer to said evidence that the CBC is a "state broadcaster"... alternatively, if you hold some positive related understanding to what the term/label "state broadcaster" means/implies, please enlighten.

[waldo]

Comparisons to PBS and the CPB can be made, but obviously there are several distinct differences that erode any such direct likeness. PBS (and NPR) have very different funding channels

erode likeness? The CBC, PBS (and NPR) all receive federal government funding/monies, regardless of your "funding channel" obscurity.

More importantly, I am not aware of any PBS/NPR equivalent language laws and restrictions, CRTC "cultural protection", sports monopoly (for Leafs games...now gone), and other peculiarities mandated by government for a state radio and television broadcaster.

it's quite telling in that you purposely refuse to acknowledge or speak to/of my references to the U.S. Congressional legislated Corporation for Public Broadcasting. Apparently, those related cultural and diversity policy declarations mess with your false narrative, hey? But really, c'mon... you just spoke directly to PBS (and NPR) funding channels. You know... those same CPB funding channels that associate directly to program content development that align with culturally diverse, or culturally valued, or select community outreach, etc., related funding allotments. Oh my! Another hit to your false narrative.

The CPB is not a "crown corporation"...it is not owned by a monarch, but rather is a private non-profit corporation.

you really should educate yourself as to the intent of establishing Canadian crown corporations... it's another likeness to the establishment criteria and rationale behind setting up the U.S. Congressionally legislated/controlled U.S. Corporation for Public Broadcasting. In terms of policy extension, you also (apparently inadvertendly) indirectly provided a link that in turn referenced the Canadian Broadcasting Act. You were asked to provide distinctions between that Broadcasting Act and the U.S. Congressional legislation that created/controls the U.S. Corporation for Public Broadcasting. Your attempts so far have been a Cheney-like "big time" fail!

Clearly the CBC is Canada's state broadcaster and defined as such, and yet you bristle even at this obvious circumstance.

you have provided nothing that speaks to your claim/labeling of CBC content being politically/ideologically government imposed/controlled/driven. Again, per your own provided link that indirectly referenced the Canadian Broadcasting Act:

... the CBC... is a public broadcaster. From a few posts back, per your own provided link that referenced Canada's Broadcasting Act:

"(l) the Canadian Broadcasting Corporation, as the national public broadcaster, should provide radio and television services incorporating a wide range of programming that informs, enlightens and entertains;"

why... that's comparitively like the U.S. Congressional legislation that mandates the U.S. Corporation for Public Broadcasting... you know, the U.S. state corporation that funds/controls U.S. public telecommunications.

as for (your) obvious circumstance bristling... see your avoidance of the U.S. CPB specificity relative to policy and funding allotments. If one succumbed to your bluster (aka false narrative), it would be open to questioning why you don't take the opportunity to apply even a token smattering of your energies toward the U.S. CPB; i.e., per your narrative, the U.S. state corporation controlling U.S. state broadcasters (PBS, NPR, etc.).

.

[bush_cheney2004]

And yet, CBC funding is far more dependent on federal outlays accompanied by mandated obligations for a state/government owned broadcaster. Such funding has varied over the years as depicted below (inflation adjusted dollars). I am not aware of equivalent (and frequent) pledge drives and private donations for CBC operations and programming compared to PBS/NPR funding channel(s) that go far beyond U.S. government outlays.

[

[waldo]

And yet, CBC funding is far more dependent on federal outlays accompanied by mandated obligations for a state/government owned broadcaster. Such funding has varied over the years as depicted below (inflation adjusted dollars). I am not aware of equivalent (and frequent) pledge drives and private donations for CBC operations and programming compared to PBS/NPR funding channel(s) that go far beyond U.S. government outlays.

so what? Your early emphasis was on this same funding level... you clearly didn't want to get into policy attachments. You're clearly avoiding my recent emphasis on the U.S. CPB's direct legislated cultural and diversity policy declarations and funding channel associations to program content development that aligns with culturally diverse, or culturally valued, or select community outreach, etc., related funding allotments. Clearly you hold most selective and self-serving determinations of whatever undetermined criteria you presume to support your false narrative and incorrect "CBC state broadcaster" labeling.

[bush_cheney2004]

This thread is not about the CPB or PBS, no matter how hard you try to make it so. Please try to stay on topic, that is, the difficulties facing Canada's state broadcaster. How much have you contributed to the CBC in its time of need ?

[waldo]

This thread is not about the CPB or PBS, no matter how hard you try to make it so. Please try to stay on topic, that is, the difficulties facing Canada's state broadcaster. How much have you contributed to the CBC in its time of need ?

ah yes... you already tried the "off topic" ploy earlier. As I said,

"if... if your "CBC government controlled, state broadcaster" premise is correct, funding cuts affecting that "state broadcasting" is/should be of concern/interest to those who accept your premise; i.e., relevant and related to this thread. Accordingly, it's most apropos to question your premise and your self-described and annointed "position confirmation"... the one you've been flogging and nattering on about across multiple threads... forevah!"

a part of questioning your premise is evaluating how you arrived at it. Comparative measures afford opportunity to guage the temerity of your premise, particularly if you're willing to accept and apply it toward like circumstance as exists in the U.S.. It's clear you're not willing to accept and apply your government control/state broadcaster premise to the U.S. CPB (and extensions to PBS, NPR, etc.). Accordingly, and again following your self-annointed 'confirmed position' declaration, I again,

"hereby, in kind, self-annoint that my position has been confirmed... that your ongoing and purposely intended "CBC government controlled and state broadcaster" labeling is a false narrative, and an incorrect and failed premise that you have repeatedly failed to substantiate."

[overthere]

How much have you contributed to the CBC in its time of need ?

Very good question.

There used to be a public broadcaster in Alberta called CKUA, it is actually the oldest public braodcaster in Canada and predates CBC by a few years.

They too ran into an intransigent funder(AB govt), like CBC had no real purpose anymore as the world had changed, and faced oblivion.

Instead of blubbering and moaning on internet discussion boards, they took charge of their own future.

Today they are mainly supported financially by listener subscription and enjoy the support and respect of both the arts community and subscribers. They are doing well, having just moved into a new building. They're an institution that is likely to survive,and they are thriving at the very heart of the arts scene.

For the record, I pay $20/month.

http://www.ckua.com/

[bush_cheney2004]

Accordingly, and again following your self-annointed 'confirmed position' declaration, I again,

"hereby, in kind, self-annoint that my position has been confirmed... that your ongoing and purposely intended "CBC government controlled and state broadcaster" labeling is a false narrative, and an incorrect and failed premise that you have repeatedly failed to substantiate."

And that is an OK disagreement, if only to bring an end to this mostly off-topic tangent. I will continue to maintain my stance without regard to efforts that strive to stifle the free expression of ideas in accordance with forum rules.

Edited April 11, 2014 by bush_cheney2004

[bush_cheney2004]

....Today they are mainly supported financially by listener subscription and enjoy the support and respect of both the arts community and subscribers. They are doing well, having just moved into a new building. They're an institution that is likely to survive,and they are thriving at the very heart of the arts scene.

For the record, I pay $20/month.

http://www.ckua.com/

Thank you for this insight, as it is not only remarkable, but inspiring. Across the "border", devoted listeners also contribute like amounts on a monthly basis to keep public radio and television stations in the black, some going so far as to make legacy contributions in their wills. Joan Kroc (late wife of McDonald's CEO Ray Kroc) famously left many millions of dollars in the form of an endowment to public broadcasting. I am sure that Canadian viewers of PBS are familiar with the advertised sponsorships before and after many programs.

Are there similar private or corporate funding channels for the CBC (beyond paid advertising) ? Would such a blended funding model work in Canada ?

[On Guard for Thee]

And that is an OK disagreement, if only to bring an end to this mostly off-topic tangent. I will continue to maintain my stance without regard to efforts that strive to stifle the free expression of ideas in accordance with forum rules.

What! You actually made a post without trying to squeeze in your "state funded/state controlled" ideas? And I would just add a small correction to your last in that there wasn't any attempt to stifle your idea, just correct it.

[waldo]

Very good question.

There used to be a public broadcaster in Alberta called CKUA, it is actually the oldest public braodcaster in Canada and predates CBC by a few years.

They too ran into an intransigent funder(AB govt), like CBC had no real purpose anymore as the world had changed, and faced oblivion.

Instead of blubbering and moaning on internet discussion boards, they took charge of their own future

and a like mandated requirement forced that station to broadcast across the province... the related crumbling infrastructure forced the station to drop it's AM broadcast... financial constraints forced it to operate for 50+ years out of a decrepit and technologically deficient building... forced it to rely on minimal/meager staff wages... forced it to rely on a massive 'army' of volunteers. That new building you trumpet has it's foundations in being able to 'flip' the prior building/land it was given by the Alberta goverment for the new building. But hey, I acknowledge your, as you say, 'blubbering' in presuming to offer an 'apples to oranges' comparison to the CBC.

[bush_cheney2004]

What! You actually made a post without trying to squeeze in your "state funded/state controlled" ideas? And I would just add a small correction to your last in that there wasn't any attempt to stifle your idea, just correct it.

No, as clearly this "disagreement" has become Exhibit "A" in the now famous troll-not troll argument.

Differing opinions are still allowed, even in Canada.

[waldo]

And I would just add a small correction to your last in that there wasn't any attempt to stifle your idea, just correct it.

but of course, as you know all too well... whenever the CBC is mentioned in the future, in relation to whatever topic, the guy will purposely continue to refer to the CBC as the "government controlled state broadcaster"... he will go out of his way to ensure that wording is explicity used and repeated to the point it will cause/strike a reaction from other members. That's how a 'xxxxx' rolls!

[waldo]

Differing opinions are still allowed, even in Canada.

substantiated differing opinions have always been allowed... encouraged. Your selectively applied and self-serving false narrative does not constitute anything more than your unsubstantiated (and refuted) opinion... even in Canada.

[overthere]

and a like mandated requirement forced that station to broadcast across the province... the related crumbling infrastructure forced the station to drop it's AM broadcast... financial constraints forced it to operate for 50+ years out of a decrepit and technologically deficient building... forced it to rely on minimal/meager staff wages... forced it to rely on a massive 'army' of volunteers. That new building you trumpet has it's foundations in being able to 'flip' the prior building/land it was given by the Alberta goverment for the new building. But hey, I acknowledge your, as you say, 'blubbering' in presuming to offer an 'apples to oranges' comparison to the CBC.

CKUA is a an unqualified, listener supported success story. They still broadcast across the province, Like CBC, it had no purpose and basically no listeners or support in the late 90s because their programming was crap and the provincial govt saw no purpose in continuing to fund the bloated bureaucracy that had no clue how to move forward. The govt appointed a pack of hacks and cronies to complete the evisceration of a rotting carcass that the network had created themselves when times were good and nobdoy had any accountability. Yes, I'm still talking about CKUA and not CBC.

It creates quite a quandary for CBC listeners in the province. They hate CKUA for being a success when CBC is clearly heading for the cesspool, weighed down by the millstone own hubris. Their clarion cry: i WANT SOMEBODY ELSE TO PAY FOR MY ENTERTAINMENT does not have much traction with the majority who simply don't watch, listen to or care about the very expensive dinosaur that CBC has become.

It used to be a vital part of our society, now it is becoming a caricature.

At the same time, CBC supporters love the programming, love CKUAs access to local and visting artists, and know that CBC is ultimately dead as a nit unless they do something similar. And that means they'll have to pay out ofg their own pockets instead of picking the pockets of everybody else.

How much have you sent to CBC Waldo?

[bush_cheney2004]

...At the same time, CBC supporters love the programming, love CKUAs access to local and visting artists, and know that CBC is ultimately dead as a nit unless they do something similar. And that means they'll have to pay out ofg their own pockets instead of picking the pockets of everybody else.

Again...very insightful. IMHO, it is the existing funding framework and crown mandated policies that are strangling the CBC, which as you say, use to be a well managed and respected concern for programming. That is why I hammer away at the notion of strict independence for this crown corporation.

[On Guard for Thee]

There we go again "crown mandated policies" . Nope. Maybe do a littel research.

[waldo]

It creates quite a quandary for CBC listeners in the province. They hate CKUA for being a success when CBC is clearly heading for the cesspool, weighed down by the millstone own hubris.

At the same time, CBC supporters love the programming, love CKUAs access to local and visting artists, and know that CBC is ultimately dead as a nit unless they do something similar. And that means they'll have to pay out ofg their own pockets instead of picking the pockets of everybody else.

your obvious, as you say, 'hate' for the CBC predisposes you to inflate the value of that rather smallish/fringe single radio station... one I used to and still occasionally listen to over the net. It has a handful of programs/programmers worth anything of substance... are you one of those fervent devotees that likes anything that station packages into it's self-declared 'eclectic' wrapping? For what it's worth, you're disengenuous in claiming province wide coverage... the drop of those AM transmitters left pockets of Alberta not served by FM.

in any case, I highlighted your most improper comparisons to a smallish/fringe radio station vis-a-vis the forced mandate and related scope of Canada's CBC

[Black Dog]

Must be good weather for trolling.

[Bob Macadoo]

Must be good weather for trolling.

If a troll sees his shadow I think it means six more weeks of winter.

[eyeball]

Must be good weather for trolling.

More like long-lining with 200 lb test leaders and #16 circle hooks. Sometimes they come aboard like grapes. Don't forget to sharpen the hooks now and then.