Cheney cancels speech in Canada due to safety concerns ‎

[DogOnPorch]

Sure, I can see that. But I was talking about the more direct involvement.

Oh? Like we weren't communicating? Iraq was just a coing-kee-dink?

[Guest American Woman]

Maybe you could post some evidence to back up your claim.

I've posted links on several occasions. This time I'll c&p, adding emphasis:

Canada’s secret war in Iraq

By Richard Sanders

Global Research, February 17, 2008

Common Ground

How easy it is to make people believe a lie, and how hard it is to undo that work again! – Mark Twain

On March 25, 2003, during the “shock and awe” bombardment of Iraq, then US Ambassador to Canada Paul Cellucci admitted that “… ironically, Canadian naval vessels, aircraft and personnel... will supply more support to this war in Iraq indirectly... than most of those 46 countries that are fully supporting our efforts there.”

Cellucci merely scratched the surface of Canada’s initial “support” for the Iraq War, but he had let the cat out of the bag. As then Secretary of State Colin Powell had explained a week earlier, “We now have a coalition of the willing… who have publicly said they could be included in such a listing.... And there are 15 other nations, who, for one reason or another, do not wish to be publicly named but will be supporting the coalition.”

Canada was, and still is, the leading member of this secret group, which we could perhaps call CW-HUSH, the “Coalition of the Willing to Help but Unwilling to be Seen Helping.” The plan worked. Most Canadians still proudly believe that their government refused to join the Iraq War. Nothing could be further from the truth. Here are some of the ways in which we joined the fray:

Escorting the US Navy: Thirteen hundred Canadian troops aboard Canada’s multibillion dollar warships escorted the US fleet through the Persian Gulf, putting them safely in place to bomb Iraq.

Leading the coalition Navy: Canadian Rear Admiral Roger Girouard was in charge of the war coalition’s fleet.

Providing war planners: At least two dozen Canadian war planners working at US Central Command in Florida were transferred to the Persian Gulf in early 2003 to help oversee the war’s complicated logistics.

Commanding the war: In 2004, Canadian Brigadier General Walt Natynczyk commanded 10 brigades totalling 35,000 troops. He was Second-in-Command of the entire Iraq War for that year. When Governor General Clarkson gave Natynczyk the Meritorious Service Cross, her office extolled his “pivotal role in the development of numerous plans and operations [which] resulted in a tremendous contribution… to Operation Iraqi Freedom, and… brought great credit to the Canadian Forces and to Canada.”

Helping coordinate the war: Canadian military personnel working aboard American E-3 Airborne Warning and Control System warplanes helped direct the electronic war by providing surveillance, command, control and communications services to US war fighters.

Providing airspace and refuelling: Countless US troop and equipment transport aircraft have flown over Canada, to and from the Iraq War, and many refuelled in Gander, Newfoundland.

Providing air transport: At least three Canadian CC-130 military transport planes were listed by US military to supply coalition forces during the Iraq War.

Freeing up US troops: Canada’s major role in Afghan war has freed up thousands of US troops for deployment to Iraq.

Providing ground troops: At least 35 Canadian soldiers were directly under US command, in an “exchange” capacity on the ground, participating in the invasion of Iraq.

Testing weapons and drones: Two types of cruise missiles (AGM-86 and -129) and the “Global Hawk” (RQ-4A) surveillance drone, used in Iraq, were tested over Canada.

Depleted uranium (DU) weapons: Canada is the world’s top exporter of uranium. Our government pretends that Canada’s uranium is sold for “peaceful” purposes only, but absolutely nothing is done to stop the US from using DU in their weapons. America’s A-10 Wart Hog warplanes have fired DU munitions in Yugoslavia, Afghanistan and Iraq, while each cruise missile contains three kgs of DU ballast. Providing RADARSAT data: Eagle Vision, a US Air Force mobile ground station, ­which controls Canada’s RADARSAT-1 satellite and downlinks its data­, was used from the start of the Iraq War.

Diplomatic support: Former Prime Minister Jean Chrétien supported the “right” of the US to invade Iraq, although Kofi Annan said it was an illegal occupation. Chrétien criticized Canadian citizens who questioned the war, saying they provided comfort to Saddam Hussein.

Training Iraqi police: Canada has spent millions sending RCMP officers to Jordan to train tens of thousands of cadets for Iraq’s paramilitary police force.

Training Iraqi troops: High-level Canadian military personnel joined the “NATO Training Mission in Iraq” to “train the trainers” of Iraqi Security Forces who are on the leading edge of the US occupation.

A Canadian colonel, under NATO command, was chief of staff at the Baghdad-based training mission.

Canada was the leading donor to this centre, providing an initial $810 thousand.

Funding Iraq’s interior ministry: Canada provides advisors and financial support to this ministry, which has been caught running torture centres.

Thousands of its officers have been withdrawn for corruption, and it has been accused of working with death squads that executed a thousand people per month in Baghdad alone in the summer of 2006.

Military exports: At least 100 Canadian companies sold parts and/or services for major weapons systems used in the Iraq War. Quebec’s SNC-TEC sold millions of bullets to the US military forces occupying Iraq. General Dynamics Canada, in London Ontario, sold hundreds of armoured vehicles to the US and Australia. Between October 2003 and November 2005, these troop transport vehicles logged over six million miles in Iraq. Winnipeg’s Bristol Aerospace sells cluster-bomb dispensing warheads used by US aircraft in Iraq.

Canada Pension Plan investments: Canadians are forced to invest their pension money in hundreds of military industries, including most of the world’s top 20 weapons producers, which are the leading prime contractors for virtually all the major weapons systems used in Iraq.

So the next time a proud fellow citizen tells you that Canada didn’t join the Iraq War, remind them of Mark Twain’s famous quip: “It ain’t what you don’t know that gets you into trouble. It’s what you know for sure that just ain’t so.”

link

Seriously, is this were the extent of the U.S.'s involvement in a war you all would have no problem seeing it for what it is - and criticizing it and condemning it endlessly - and if Americans were in such denial, you all would be all over them for it, too.

It sounds as if Canada gave its all to this war - as much as it had to give - as Canadians were being told Canada was not going to be involved; and so many still holier-than-thou believe it, as they criticize the U.S. and Americans.

[bleeding heart]

Oh? Like we weren't communicating? Iraq was just a coing-kee-dink?

No...I was talking about Canada's material, direct involvement in Iraq.

It's not that I don't agree with you.

I do agree with you.

But when arguing Canadian culpability with Canadians who don't appreciate the message, I find it more effective to go for the matters that they can't so easily try to argue away with semantics.

[bleeding heart]

and so many still holier-than-thou believe it, as they criticize the U.S. and Americans.

Exactly; when in fact, both our fine countries deserve heartfelt condemnation for murderous policies (in the first instance) and deception of their populations as related to it (in the second instance).

[GostHacked]

Exactly; when in fact, both our fine countries deserve heartfelt condemnation for murderous policies (in the first instance) and deception of their populations as related to it (in the second instance).

You are not going to get that kind of admission from some of the Americans on this board.

[Guest Peeves]

You are not going to get that kind of admission from some of the Americans on this board.

Strange isn't it how so often Democratic countries are pointed at while the despots, murderers and human rights deprived nations that are constantly in the news for flagrant abuse of their citizens rights and freedoms are ignored.

The bottom line, we can criticize our countries openly.

[bleeding heart]

Strange isn't it how so often Democratic countries are pointed at while the despots, murderers and human rights deprived nations that are constantly in the news for flagrant abuse of their citizens rights and freedoms are ignored.

The bottom line, we can criticize our countries openly.

The bottom line is that people in Democratic countries should be criticizing their countries openly--that's part of the democratic principle--without people whining about it like indoctrinated, nationalist little cowards.

[Guest American Woman]

You are not going to get that kind of admission from some of the Americans on this board.

Oh, the irony!

[GostHacked]

Oh, the irony!

Where to begin with this ......

Alright, let's play. So sure, Canada went into the war, but they did it covertly. It was not announced, there was no declaration of war, but there is (from your article) some clear evidence of something going on. I recognize that it could be possible, knowing the Canadian government has done shady things in the past. However, when we discuss these kinds of actions taken by the USA, you, American Woman and a few other posters, defend your country's horrific actions almost to the point where you are frothing at the mouth ...... that is irony.

It's almost like you don't quite understand what irony actually is.

Cheney was no angel, former Haliburton exec, oil tycoon and working for the CFR when running for re-election. This is one of the most evil men on the planet, and yet it's all brushed aside and the US posters here for the most part end up being apologetic towards it, without even considering the other side. Some people here think Cheney was a god.

[Shady]

So sure, Canada went into the war, but they did it covertly.

Now you're moving the goal posts.

One more time. Canada did not go to war with Iraq.

You sound like the quintessential politician.

[Guest Manny]

I think you best look in the mirror.

I always do. And I like what I see!

[Guest Manny]

Wow! I didn't realize that Canada was so sneaky to be in the Iraq war and not let the people know. But I'm not surprised, really, the government always lies to us.

But even if it's true my country was involved, I still do not support that war. Now instead of just criticize America, I will criticize Canada for it too! Chretien, you bastard. That's another reason to condemn you.

[Guest American Woman]

Where to begin with this ......

Alright, let's play. So sure, Canada went into the war, but they did it covertly. It was not announced, there was no declaration of war, but there is (from your article) some clear evidence of something going on.

Oh, yes. "Some" clear evidence of "something going on." Unbelievable.

I recognize that it could be possible

Wow!! You have the evidence right in front of your face and you "recognize" that "it could be possible." And here I thought you didn't scrutinize your country the same way you do the U.S.

knowing the Canadian government has done shady things in the past.

Well that's a really bold admission. Nothing specific, but the all-general "I know Canada has done shady things in the past" response. Such fierce condemnation!

However, when we discuss these kinds of actions taken by the USA, you, American Woman and a few other posters, defend your country's horrific actions almost to the point where you are frothing at the mouth

If that's true, I'm sure you'll have no problem providing evidence of that claim, so I expect you to do it.

...... that is irony.

No, that is a false accusation. Your post was irony. And quite amusing, actually. That you are still going on about Americans and the U.S. as you "recognize" that "it could be possible" that Canada was involved in Iraq is irony to the max.

It's almost like you don't quite understand what irony actually is.

I can only assume that you are talking to yourself here.

Cheney was no angel, former Haliburton exec, oil tycoon and working for the CFR when running for re-election. This is one of the most evil men on the planet, and yet it's all brushed aside and the US posters here for the most part end up being apologetic towards it, without even considering the other side. Some people here think Cheney was a god.

And some people can only make false accusations towards others as they give their country a holier-than-thou pass. Either you have no idea what "the US posters" have all said, or you have no comprehension abilities, or you are an out and out liar.

I await the evidence of what you've accused me of.

[Guest American Woman]

Wow! I didn't realize that Canada was so sneaky to be in the Iraq war and not let the people know. But I'm not surprised, really, the government always lies to us.

But even if it's true my country was involved, I still do not support that war. Now instead of just criticize America, I will criticize Canada for it too! Chretien, you bastard. That's another reason to condemn you.

There's no "if" about it; of course it's true. But hopefully you are true to your word and will criticize Canada for it too.

[Shady]

Seriously, how does he get away with this double-speak???

One more time. Canada did not go to war with Iraq.

So sure, Canada went into the war, but they did it covertly.

[bush_cheney2004]

....And some people can only make false accusations towards others as they give their country a holier-than-thou pass. Either you have no idea what "the US posters" have all said, or you have no comprehension abilities, or you are an out and out liar.

For some, it goes far deeper than that, as the very definition of what it means to be Canadian requires overt differentiation and contrast with America and America's policies, even when confronted by the reality of such complicity. This narrative is essential to placate a certain political constituency. Ironically, much of their anti-American rhetoric is imported from...America, as it is eagerly sought and consumed from US media.

[Guest Manny]

Ironically, much of their anti-American rhetoric is imported from...America, as it is eagerly sought and consumed from US media.

What audience does the US media create this for? Surely not exclusively for Canadians...

[Guest Peeves]

The bottom line is that people in Democratic countries should be criticizing their countries openly--that's part of the democratic principle--without people whining about it like indoctrinated, nationalist little cowards.

The bottom line is WE can.

[bush_cheney2004]

What audience does the US media create this for? Surely not exclusively for Canadians...

It is created for US and international audiences in purposeful markets and channels, not as a substitute for missing content in Canada. In many cases, Canadians know more about the inner workings of US government than their own.

[bleeding heart]

The bottom line is WE can.

Yes, yes...you're very happy that we can. So am I.

However, you don't seem to think we should. On that, we disagree.

[GostHacked]

Now you're moving the goal posts.

I am not the one moving the goal posts.

You sound like the quintessential politician.

And if you want doublespeak take a look at what the government is saying. Don't blame me for doing what the government does without blaming them.

[bleeding heart]

This is one of the most evil men on the planet, and yet it's all brushed aside and the US posters here for the most part end up being apologetic towards it, without even considering the other side. Some people here think Cheney was a god.

Cheney isn't evil (well...I admit I'm assuming....). The fact of international shenanigans, including those that cause what we might term "evils," are the result of institutional factors.

Not that individuals aren't responsible; but it's bigger than that, by a long shot.

The "evils" of particular leaders and policymakers (besides the oversimplifications inherent to the view) is an idea that pretends there are no serious institutional flaws or issues, and if people could only elect the Proper Hero, all will be well. Hell, Obama--and arguably Reagan and Bush Jr.--won elections based in part on just that premise.

It's not an American phenomenon. The Americans are unsurprisingly normal. But Cheney is...just Cheney. I might think he's a big jerk, but I don't believe he was attempting Evil.

[eyeball]

I don't believe he was attempting Evil.

He's inspired a fair bit of it.

[bleeding heart]

He's inspired a fair bit of it.

Granted.

[DogOnPorch]

Granted.

Lots of mass beheadings and children being splashed with acid. My personal favorite is when the neer-do-wells use smaller sticks to beat to death a non-conformist. Takes longer. Damn that Cheney.