Protest against the LCBO -- Liquor Control Board of Ontario

eyeball · March 18, 2015

And that's how the income gap spreads so easily...with a great big meh.

Boges · March 18, 2015

No ownership stake, but those brands are the big sellers and they'll want to move units.

If you want Big 3, you know where to get it: The Beer Store. I'm thinking these grocers might have to try and differentiate themselves from TBS.

Obviously this is just crystal ball stuff, I have no idea how we'll be marketed to once this comes to pass. But I'm sure the competition will be fierce.

Black Dog · March 18, 2015

If you want Big 3, you know where to get it: The Beer Store. I'm thinking these grocers might have to try and differentiate themselves from TBS.

Obviously this is just crystal ball stuff, I have no idea how we'll be marketed to once this comes to pass. But I'm sure the competition will be fierce.

You can bet the big brewers will do everything they can to ensure that the expanded retail market doesn't eat into their bottom line. They have the power to do it and the money to outbid any of the little guys. That's why I think they need to let small brewers open their own stores. Hopefully allowing micros to sell their products in more than one location (currently they are only allowed to sell from the same place they make the beer) is part of the upcoming changes.

guyser · March 18, 2015

Swing and a miss!

Oh....really?

Your question was answered.

Now of course you want to move the goalposts. Fine by me I suppose.

What evidence is there that correlates where a violent drunk gets their alcohol with an increase in that behaviour?

Should have asked that question in the first place.

So, where the goalposts be today?

Edited March 18, 2015 by Guyser2

The_Squid · March 18, 2015

Oh....really?

Your question was answered.

Now of course you want to move the goalposts. Fine by me I suppose.

Should have asked that question in the first place.

So, where the goalposts be today?

Then you weren't following the conversation...

guyser · March 18, 2015

Then you weren't following the conversation...

If you look back, you can see it is exactly ....repeat...exactly as I describe.

You got confused. Its ok. Moving on....

The_Squid · March 18, 2015

If you look back, you can see it is exactly ....repeat...exactly as I describe.

You got confused. Its ok. Moving on....

This was the claim:

The Ontario Public Service Employees’ Union, which represents some 5,000 LCBO employees, suggested the province could see a spike in violence, “particularly violence against women.”

“We know alcohol contributes to violence, and this makes us question Premier Kathleen Wynne’s commitment to making women in this province safer,” OPSEU president Warren “Smokey” Thomas said in a statement.

The OPSEU suggested supermarket employees may not be able to properly handle the sale of alcohol.

LCBO and Beer Store staff “are trained in the safe and responsible sale and handling of alcohol,” Thomas said. “The same will not be true for staff of grocery stores – and some grocery store employees are too young to legally sell and handle alcohol at all.”

No goalposts were moved... you just didn't follow the conversation. It's OK... Moving on...

guyser · March 18, 2015

This was the claim:

That was the claim of OPSEU.

Certainly not what you were on about , so yea, lets pay attention here and follow along.

Black dog said...Actually the availability of alcohol does contribute to violence. I don't know why you'd take issue with that.

To which you copied in your post #417...

That's a claim.... where is the cite?

So to slow it down here, you were asking BD where the evidence of "..the availability of alcohol does contribute to violence" ....not where it was available but that the mere availablility of alcohol contributes to violence.

So then I gave you cites that backed that up. And again, nothing to do with OPSEU's ridiculous assertions.

So then, you moved the goalposts since you then replied...

The claim is that alcohol sold in grocery stores would increase violence...

Which is de facto moving the goalposts.

Sorry, but as you can see that is now perfectly clear. For the record (again) OPSEU is wrong as hell.

No goalposts were moved... you just didn't follow the conversation. It's OK... Moving on...

Swing and a miss, if you can follow along. Apparently , judging by these posts you hadnt, but which should now be clear as a bell.

Move on.

Bob Macadoo · March 18, 2015

I think the LCBO already does a good job exposing consumers to craft beers, so the distribution channels are there. I'm sure Loblaws won't feel the need to put Bud Light and Molson Canadian front and centre because it doesn't have an ownership stake in those brands.

You need to leave ON. The LCBO is awful wrt craft beer. I think BC is a better model. A more open availability/distribution model will get more players in the game which is important to me, a craft drinker.

Loblaw's will stock what will return quickly......if there's an already an established market there will be no incentive to invest in a new one.

The_Squid · March 18, 2015

That was the claim of OPSEU.

Certainly not what you were on about , so yea, lets pay attention here and follow along.

To which you copied in your post #417...

So to slow it down here, you were asking BD where the evidence of "..the availability of alcohol does contribute to violence" ....not where it was available but that the mere availablility of alcohol contributes to violence.

So then I gave you cites that backed that up. And again, nothing to do with OPSEU's ridiculous assertions.

So then, you moved the goalposts since you then replied...

Which is de facto moving the goalposts.

Sorry, but as you can see that is now perfectly clear. For the record (again) OPSEU is wrong as hell.

Swing and a miss, if you can follow along. Apparently , judging by these posts you hadnt, but which should now be clear as a bell.

Move on.

lol

ok then... you win.... :rolleyes:

Boges · March 19, 2015

This is a great column by the Star's "Beer Corespondent" Martin Regg Cohn.

http://www.thestar.com/news/queenspark/2015/03/18/how-to-stop-beer-wine-in-supermarkets-forever-cohn.html

Unions warn of chaos and cozy deals. Corner stores are crying in their milk. Wine connoisseurs whine about limited selection. Beer purists complain the Beer Store will still be in business. Distillers want a piece of the action. Environmentalists claim recycling will go down the drain. Everyone dreams of lower prices, and free enterprisers want a free-for-all.

So far, the quintessentially Ontario reaction — fears and fretting about potential pitfalls — is a reminder that you can’t please all the drinkers, doubters, voters and vested interests all the time. No wonder we’ve had to wait nine decades since the end of prohibition for Queen’s Park to move forward.

Such a "Will someone think of the children!" reaction to special interest in Ontario. Let's hope Wynne has resolve here.

And shame on the NDP for backing Brewers Retail. Bleep those Fecking Hypocrites!

Ash74 · March 19, 2015

This is a great column by the Star's "Beer Corespondent" Martin Regg Cohn.

http://www.thestar.com/news/queenspark/2015/03/18/how-to-stop-beer-wine-in-supermarkets-forever-cohn.html

Such a "Will someone think of the children!" reaction to special interest in Ontario. Let's hope Wynne has resolve here.

And shame on the NDP for backing Brewers Retail. Bleep those Fecking Hypocrites!

This is not a party lines complaint because they are all guilty of over controlling us.

The big fear of what will happen when the public have an easier access to alchol may be seen as the end of civilization but we wil get threw it.

f course the union will bitch. They despise free enterprise and with Walmart and Sobey's not being unionized this will allow non union jobs to be created.

That will not due. Hence the NDP complaining

The Liberals believe in a big government nanny state where along with the NDP are only happy when things are so over regulated the joy is taken out of it

The PC's are leaning more and more to a police state where it is easier just make everything illegal so the police can arrest whenever it suits them.

Bob Macadoo · March 20, 2015

This is not a party lines complaint because they are all guilty of over controlling us.

Hide the knives dude. I thought my cynical outlook could suck the life out of room.

Ash74 · March 20, 2015

Hide the knives dude. I thought my cynical outlook could suck the life out of room.

lol

But can you say I am wrong?

ron Young · March 28, 2015

The question shouldn't be whether we need the LCBO? The question should be what exactly does the government do with the multi billions of profits from the LCBO? How is the money spent? The debate over its existence is a smoke screen designed to cover up the misuse and mismanagement of our profits from the sale of spirits.

Ash74 · March 29, 2015

The question shouldn't be whether we need the LCBO? The question should be what exactly does the government do with the multi billions of profits from the LCBO? How is the money spent? The debate over its existence is a smoke screen designed to cover up the misuse and mismanagement of our profits from the sale of spirits.

It goes into general revenue for the province. Money goes to health care,education,roads,cricket clubs,non built gas plants, jobs to bribe candidates to step down......oooops. That last one is a little iffy. He didn't take the job.

Boges · April 15, 2015

The Star totally buried the lead on this story.

http://www.thestar.com/news/queenspark/2015/04/15/beer-sales-will-come-to-supermarkets-before-wine.html

From the bottom of the story.

Further complicating matters is that vintages sold at the private stores are exempted from the LCBO’s 66.5 per cent mark-up and pay just 16.1 per cent tax on the blended wines they sell.

Because they are mandated by law to charge the same prices as the LCBO that means the Wine Rack and Wine Shop make far bigger profits on the same products than the publicly owned chain.

Those are among the many complications Clark will be examining in his next review.

So they have to charge what the LCBO charges (because the children) but they don't have to pay taxes on a good majority of it.

Flippin' Idiots!!!

They'd rather allow private companies to make off like bandits than let the consumer get reasonably priced alcohol.

Black Dog · April 17, 2015

Big surprise: they screwed it up.

Ontario’s new beer strategy has already gone skunky

Premier Kathleen Wynne announced the new beer strategy on Thursday, with her Twitter feed appropriating the hashtag #FreeTheBeer. If only it were about that.

Until now, The Beer Store has been a private monopoly, owned by three major non-Canadian brewers, and maintained by an assiduously lobbied and greased provincial government. If you think the solution is for the monopoly to be ended and free market competition to replace it, you are out of luck. If, on the other hand, your preferred idea is for politicians to get even more deeply into the business of beer central planning, then the province has a plan you’ll love.

That plan, adopted by the Wynne government after a report by former TD Financial Group CEO Ed Clark, will turn a concentrated monopoly into a complex, multi-channel, many-tiered beast, overseen by Queen’s Park. The Clark report says the number of places selling beer across the province will increase by about 30 per cent. But the free market – you know, consumer demand – won’t decide where that happens. Or when. Or how. Premier Mom and Co. will retain control. That is likely to ensure that beer remains one of the province’s most lucrative neighbourhoods for lobbyists – and party fundraisers.

Boges · April 17, 2015

I heard they're still going to force stores to stick to LCBO hours. WTF IS THE POINT THEN!!!?!?????!?!??!

But they'll have home delivery. So we can't allow people to get alcohol at 8pm of Sunday but we'll deliver to their homes during normal business hours.

Do these people listen to what they say before they say it?

Ash74 · April 17, 2015

I wonder what happened to the franchise fee's that The Beer Store was in for?

Perhaps the beer monopoly made out alright after all.

guyser · April 17, 2015

I heard they're still going to force stores to stick to LCBO hours. WTF IS THE POINT THEN!!!?!?????!?!??!

That has always been the case.

Recall Sunday closings? Those offshoot stores in the nether regions (inside small grocery or variety stores) had to section off the beer part on those days.

Boges · April 17, 2015

I wonder what happened to the franchise fee's that The Beer Store was in for?

Perhaps the beer monopoly made out alright after all.

The Globe and Mail article suggests that they don't want to make The Beer Store, unviable.

Everything will have the same price, so there'll be nil competition.

Black Dog · April 17, 2015

The Globe and Mail article suggests that they don't want to make The Beer Store, unviable.

Everything will have the same price, so there'll be nil competition.

The idea that the provincial government would balk at good policy because it might cut into the massive profits of a bunch of foreign-owned corporations is mind-buggering.

Boges · April 23, 2015

Can't buy a beer after 6pm on a Sunday or at a corner store ever.

But they'll delivery a bottle of scotch to your home for a nominal fee. FFS!!!!

http://www.thestar.com/business/2015/04/22/grocery-gateway-to-start-delivering-wine-spirits.html

Perhaps you’d like a bottle of red wine delivered to your home to serve with that meal you’re planning?

A bottle of bourbon for cocktails or a hot toddy?

Starting Thursday, Grocery Gateway will deliver wine and spirits to your door, providing you also order $45 worth of groceries before taxes.

“Introducing LCBO wines and spirits to Grocery Gateway really completes our vision of delivering everything a shopper wants to enjoy a great meal,” said Anthony Longo, president and chief executive officer, Longo’s, which owns Grocery Gateway.

The wine-and-spirits delivery service is set to debut on the same day the provincial Liberals deliver the budget, which is expected to include details of how beer sales in grocery stores will work.

Premier Kathleen Wynne announced last month that her government would end the quasi-monopoly enjoyed by the Beer Store in Ontario. Consumers can expect to find beer on supermarket shelves before Christmas.

Mighty AC · April 23, 2015

The idea that the provincial government would balk at good policy because it might cut into the massive profits of a bunch of foreign-owned corporations is mind-buggering.

Kind of like our federal government does for fossil fuel companies...