M.Dancer Posted August 4, 2011 Report Posted August 4, 2011 No sorry not even close. This whole "support the troops" slogan is a political wedge thats constantly used to browbeat opponents of a given government policy. Its not the same as recycling. But if we need to completely ban ALL bumper stickers on government vehicles in order to avoid wasting time arguing about this kind of pointless retarded crap, then so be it. It is entirely the same. The only difference is you do not like one of the messages. Quote RIGHT of SOME, LEFT of OTHERS If it is a choice between them and us, I choose us
g_bambino Posted August 4, 2011 Report Posted August 4, 2011 "Support the Troops" is a slogan co-opted by the right-wing to essentially say that if you don't support the current mission, then you hate our soldiers and are a bad Canadian. It is? I thought both the Afghan mission and the "Support the Troops" decals predate the present Conservative Cabinet. Quote
Army Guy Posted August 4, 2011 Report Posted August 4, 2011 No sorry not even close. This whole "support the troops" slogan is a political wedge thats constantly used to browbeat opponents of a given government policy. Its not the same as recycling.But if we need to completely ban ALL bumper stickers on government vehicles in order to avoid wasting time arguing about this kind of pointless retarded crap, then so be it. It may have turned into that, but the orginal "support the Troops" slogan came from the Canex, a yellow ribbon with support the troops printed on it....sold to the troops or anyone visting a Canex , a portion of the proceeds were going to fund programs like the Family resource centers, and spousal support programs....Ya pretty polictical .... It's been twisted and hijacked into some political non sense by people, and the government who really don't understand it or refuse to listen...to bad it was a great way to raise funds and still is....but then again who cares....don't like the saying don't buy one at your local Canex...it's really that simple.... Quote We, the willing, led by the unknowing, are doing the impossible for the ungrateful. We have now done so much for so long with so little, we are now capable of doing anything with nothing.
The_Squid Posted August 4, 2011 Report Posted August 4, 2011 So you do support government propaganda for such things....why single out "troops" vs. "recycling"? That was a question, not a statement. No, there shouldn't be any propoganda on gov't vehicles. The flag is not propoganda. Quote
dre Posted August 4, 2011 Report Posted August 4, 2011 It is entirely the same. The only difference is you do not like one of the messages. No thats not the difference at all. One message is a contraversial political message the other one isnt. Its like night and day. But like I said... Im fine with not having ANY bumper stickers on government vehicles. Quote I question things because I am human. And call no one my father who's no closer than a stranger
The_Squid Posted August 4, 2011 Report Posted August 4, 2011 No thats not the difference at all. One message is a contraversial political message the other one isnt. Its like night and day. But like I said... Im fine with not having ANY bumper stickers on government vehicles. Let's compare the two... recycling - a gov't program to reduce waste in our landfills. It's kind of like having a 9-1-1 decal on a cop car. support the troops - a vague message trying to drive a wedge between those "with us or against us". Not even close to the same type of message. Quote
dre Posted August 4, 2011 Report Posted August 4, 2011 It may have turned into that, but the orginal "support the Troops" slogan came from the Canex, a yellow ribbon with support the troops printed on it....sold to the troops or anyone visting a Canex , a portion of the proceeds were going to fund programs like the Family resource centers, and spousal support programs....Ya pretty polictical .... It's been twisted and hijacked into some political non sense by people, and the government who really don't understand it or refuse to listen...to bad it was a great way to raise funds and still is....but then again who cares....don't like the saying don't buy one at your local Canex...it's really that simple.... I agree. The message itself is very benign. Nothing wrong with it at all. The problem is as you say its been twisted and highjacked, and for whatever reason has become politically devisive, and it ends up getting used as a vehicle to attach the patriotism of people that might disagree with a certain government policy (which of course could include troops themselves as well). Even still... if I knew these bumper stickers were going to be the end of it, Id just say OK FINE. But I worry about the government marketing itself in this manner. Why just bumper stickers? Why not a national ad campaign? Why not banners on city streets etc? Quote I question things because I am human. And call no one my father who's no closer than a stranger
Army Guy Posted August 4, 2011 Report Posted August 4, 2011 Even still... if I knew these bumper stickers were going to be the end of it, Id just say OK FINE. But I worry about the government marketing itself in this manner. Why just bumper stickers? Why not a national ad campaign? Why not banners on city streets etc? While the government may have Highjacked the message....the actual stickers are sold by the Canex...it is not a government owned, but rather has share holders...it's design was to provide portions of the profits to soldier programs , and family resource centers.... Quote We, the willing, led by the unknowing, are doing the impossible for the ungrateful. We have now done so much for so long with so little, we are now capable of doing anything with nothing.
CitizenX Posted August 4, 2011 Report Posted August 4, 2011 (edited) "it should not be just our soldiers that are held to such high standards but all Canadian citiizens as well as it is one of their many responsabilties to make change when change is needed.... be it a form of protest or direct action." I agree completely, and I strongly believe in this quote from Plato. "The price of apathy towards public affairs is to be ruled by evil men". What happened at the G20 is a good example of people expressing in a peaceful manor (forget the handful of knuckleheads) their views of changes that need to happen. They were beat down and their rights were taken away illegally by the people who's duty it is to protect rights. But the Police were just following orders. Apathy in Canada is a huge issue ? A great video PLEASE WATCH. yesterdays news announced another poll....titled was it worth it....refing to our mission in Afghan, it states that 70 % of Canadians think it was a waste of time and lifes.....30 % of Canadians believe we accomplished alot of things and it was worth the time and effort..... 85% of Canadians Support the troops.... Here's my bitter pill to swallow....all my time ,effort, and blood, i spent in Afghan under our flag is considered by most Canadians as a waste of time....My comrads who made the final trip home in a casket had died in vein, for nothing according to 70 % of Canadians.....and as bitter as that is i'm willing to swallow it, don't agree but i'm still swallowing.... This has to be completely disheartening, and I truly sympathize with you and your comrads. I can only express my feeling towards the war. First I believe that the Canadian military is doing the best they can in a bad situation. Saying that I think, and feel Canada got hoodwinked by the Americans. Are allies got attacked and so we as good and close friends we had their back. Canada may not have a lot of military power but as a nation with a good reputation have a great deal of international political power. But as soon as are troops went over there it seemed the whole conflict turned towards Iraq. The longer the Iraq war went on the more evidence that it was not only unjustified, and ilegal but that it was more about getting rid of an American puppet (Hussein) who was acting out against his master. It became more evident that the Iraq war was more about securing oil for the American addiction, and for Corporate profits and domination. Anyway back to Afghanistan, after seeing all of this bullshit going down it starts to make you think. Who is this asshole buddy that we are backing up? Is our participation in Afghanistan all about oil as well? Is this even our war anymore? Here is an interesting fact and link to a video that may piss you off. . This may seem a little cynical but if Canada is in Afghanistan for noble humanitarian reasons where was Canada for Rwanda. They don't have Oil? Your state has gone to great lengths to ensure it's soldiers recieve the training to make sure this does not happen ever...in fact most western armies have as well.... Historically I agree with you 100%, but Harper (Mini Bush) scares the hell out of me. He is seems to closely aligned with the American Republic Party ideology. Hilter's army is not a very good example, as it was not so much as soldiers showing loyality to Hilter and serving with out question, as much as it was fear of death...don't under estamate fear one can make anyone do anything if one has something to loose.... I could have used the American Iraq example just as easily. They were easily manipulated, and lied to by their government but still loyal to the Iraq invasion. Your right the state is useless with out an army....but to ensure compliance fear is used to keep everyone in line and serving the cause....look at most of the middle east right now.... As long as enough people can be frightened, then all people can be ruled. That is how it works in a democratic system and mass fear becomes the ticket to destroy rights across the board. - James Bovard Edited August 4, 2011 by CitizenX Quote "The rich people have their lobbyists and the poor people have their feet." The price of apathy towards public affairs is to be ruled by evil men. - Plato
bush_cheney2004 Posted August 4, 2011 Report Posted August 4, 2011 This has to be completely disheartening, and I truly sympathize with you and your comrads. I can only express my feeling towards the war. First I believe that the Canadian military is doing the best they can in a bad situation. Saying that I think, and feel Canada got hoodwinked by the Americans. Nonsense....Canada is a charter member of the UN and NATO. Chretien couldn't/didn't go to Iraq, but he and Canada jumped on Afghanistan as a "just" war. Are allies got attacked and so we as good and close friends we had their back. Canada may not have a lot of military power but as a nation with a good reputation have a great deal of international political power. But as soon as are troops went over there it seemed the whole conflict turned towards Iraq. Really...then why didn't Canada commit more of that military power far earlier to Afghanistan as well? Remember, the CF-18's stayed home....an airfield too far. I could have used the American Iraq example just as easily. They were easily manipulated, and lied to by their government but still loyal to the Iraq invasion. So is that how Canada ended up in Eastern Europe, Afghanistan, and Haiti? Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
CitizenX Posted August 5, 2011 Report Posted August 5, 2011 (edited) bush_cheney2004 you've just got to come to grips with some facts. Your county was not attacked because they hate your freedom. US arrogance and foreign policies has made your county hated all around the world. Your narcissistic, greedy, and gluttonous American empire is crumbling. Your country is both powerful and dumb (bad combination) And finally something that you and your country will have to live with Iraq Body Count 102,046 - 111,539 As far as Canada/US relationship........ To quote the great George Bush “There's an old saying in Tennessee. I know it's in Texas, probably in Tennessee, that says Fool me once.......duh"... shame on... duh" "Shame on you... ?""If fooled, you can't get fooled again." Canada’s lesson learned hopefully. Edited August 5, 2011 by CitizenX Quote "The rich people have their lobbyists and the poor people have their feet." The price of apathy towards public affairs is to be ruled by evil men. - Plato
bush_cheney2004 Posted August 5, 2011 Report Posted August 5, 2011 (edited) bush_cheney2004 you've just got to come to grips with some facts. Sure...as soon as you do. And finally something that you and your country will have to live with Ding dong...Saddam is dead. Canada’s lesson learned hopefully. Nope...see softwood lumber. Edited August 5, 2011 by bush_cheney2004 Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
Moonlight Graham Posted August 5, 2011 Report Posted August 5, 2011 Don't see anything wrong with "Support Our Troops" stickers on gov vehicles. It's not like it says "Support Our Wars". Quote "All generalizations are false, including this one." - Mark Twain Partisanship is a disease of the intellect.
eyeball Posted August 5, 2011 Report Posted August 5, 2011 Because honour is too complex and not always understood...some people would think that they are asking far a star on the sidewalk or a trophy. C'mon, who are you trying to kid? We all know it's the things like more principled foreign policies that people occasionally ask for that really gets your ginch in a knot. As for the number of Canadians who finally think the mission was/is a complete waste of time, we told you so...10 years ago. Sorry for not being able to have done much to change our course before it was too late. We tried our best. Quote A government without public oversight is like a nuclear plant without lead shielding.
maple_leafs182 Posted August 5, 2011 Report Posted August 5, 2011 Why not? there is even more idiotic posturing from idiots who don't support the troops Tell me why I should support them? Quote │ _______ [███STOP███]▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄ :::::::--------------Conservatives beleive ▄▅█FUNDING THIS█▅▄▃▂- - - - - --- -- -- -- -------- Liberals lie I██████████████████] ...◥⊙▲⊙▲⊙▲⊙▲⊙'(='.'=)' ⊙
bush_cheney2004 Posted August 5, 2011 Report Posted August 5, 2011 Tell me why I should support them? Because they protect your right to insult them. Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
capricorn Posted August 5, 2011 Report Posted August 5, 2011 Canada is a charter member of the UN and NATO. Chretien couldn't/didn't go to Iraq, but he and Canada jumped on Afghanistan as a "just" war. Because Afghanistan was sold as a war to liberate Afghan women. Women represent over 50% of the Canadian population. I never underestimate the opportunism of a politician. Quote "We always want the best man to win an election. Unfortunately, he never runs." Will Rogers
Wilber Posted August 5, 2011 Report Posted August 5, 2011 Because Afghanistan was sold as a war to liberate Afghan women. Women represent over 50% of the Canadian population. I never underestimate the opportunism of a politician. So it follows that over 50% of the Canadian population must be stupid. Right? Quote "Never trust a man who has not a single redeeming vice". WSC
Wilber Posted August 5, 2011 Report Posted August 5, 2011 Because they protect your right to insult them. Beauty Quote "Never trust a man who has not a single redeeming vice". WSC
Remiel Posted August 5, 2011 Report Posted August 5, 2011 I'll explain what i'm getting at.... yesterdays news announced another poll....titled was it worth it....refing to our mission in Afghan, it states that 70 % of Canadians think it was a waste of time and lifes.....30 % of Canadians believe we accomplished alot of things and it was worth the time and effort..... 85% of Canadians Support the troops.... Here's my bitter pill to swallow....all my time ,effort, and blood, i spent in Afghan under our flag is considered by most Canadians as a waste of time....My comrads who made the final trip home in a casket had died in vein, for nothing according to 70 % of Canadians.....and as bitter as that is i'm willing to swallow it, don't agree but i'm still swallowing.... Does this not kind of speak to how terrible polls can be though? I mean, something is kind of weird if 70% think it was a waste, 30% think it was not, and 100% are not going to wait for when the jury comes in one that one (i.e. how things go after we get out). I mean, whether it was worth it or not is at least half-empirical a question... Quote
Wilber Posted August 5, 2011 Report Posted August 5, 2011 Does this not kind of speak to how terrible polls can be though? I mean, something is kind of weird if 70% think it was a waste, 30% think it was not, and 100% are not going to wait for when the jury comes in one that one (i.e. how things go after we get out). I mean, whether it was worth it or not is at least half-empirical a question... Perhaps you can put it down to an instant gratification society. Quote "Never trust a man who has not a single redeeming vice". WSC
M.Dancer Posted August 5, 2011 Report Posted August 5, 2011 Because Afghanistan was sold as a war to liberate Afghan women. No it wasn't. Never. I am sure there are some precious hearts who would like to believe that..instead of the truth. The mission was and is to remove the taliban from control. It is however, a hoped for by product. Quote RIGHT of SOME, LEFT of OTHERS If it is a choice between them and us, I choose us
eyeball Posted August 5, 2011 Report Posted August 5, 2011 Beauty Not really, the ugly truth is that our side funds dictatorships that deny the right to their own people so our economy can grow. The so-called greatest defender of free speech on the planet borrows money from China to fund it's defense of free speech. That's so sick it's not even funny. I pay my taxes therefor I support the troops, albeit against my will. You want real free speech, put your own money where your mouth is and use war bonds to fund our troops overseas adventures, after the referendum that is. Quote A government without public oversight is like a nuclear plant without lead shielding.
g_bambino Posted August 5, 2011 Report Posted August 5, 2011 I pay my taxes therefor I support the troops, albeit against my will. By your free choice, actually. Quote
Army Guy Posted August 5, 2011 Report Posted August 5, 2011 it should not be just our soldiers that are held to such high standards but all Canadian citiizens as well as it is one of their many responsabilties to make change when change is needed.... be it a form of protest or direct action." I agree completely, and I strongly believe in this quote from Plato. "The price of apathy towards public affairs is to be ruled by evil men". Then you will also agree that the Canadian public has dropped the ball, and it's responsabilities towards the mission and our military. Why is that, in my personal opinion it is that they don't care a rats ass about anything that happens outside of our borders. sure they have an opinion on every topic, but thats it it's just an opimion, there is no conviction behind it , no passion, just empty words you use at the beer hall or at dinner with freinds...that really don't matter because next week they will change.... This has to be completely disheartening, and I truly sympathize with you and your comrads. I can only express my feeling towards the war. First I believe that the Canadian military is doing the best they can in a bad situation. For different reasons, i'll explain...When this conflict first broke out Canada could not wait to send it's combat troops off to war, Thousands had lined up along the fences to see their heros go off to war, shit even the second roto got a huge send off....Flags, Banners, like something out of the frigging movies....even in the media across the nation...Canada could not wait for our troops to "get some"...our Combat role soon ends some what and we move north to Kabul, fairly routine, still some combat...Things begin to change in Canada, no more big send offs, even the amount of letters we would recieve from the public dropped way off....we move south to Kanadar were it all began...full time combat....every day all day....getting some was easy as we were in the middle of the hornets nest....Canadian citizens were finally getting what the wanted....blood....dont believe it look at the y tube vids come out of Afghan at the time Canmadian troops in action seen well over a 4 million hits. some one was watching ... Anyways, soon Canadians get bored of watching and lose interest in the mission, and the movement to Bring the troops home was born...soon after the Majority of Canadians express they no longer support the mission....Great thought the Soldiers we will soon be home.....the years tick by.... what Canadians say and what they do is two very different monsters....all talk no action would better explain it....but holy crap...jam the NHL games, or dealay the pogie checks and this nation will stand up and march all the way to Ottawa...getting soldiers home was not even on the list...YA we talked about it....but in the army talk is cheap...and opinion are like arseholes, everyone has got one... So for over 6 years Canadian soldiers were left holding the bag, and we poured our hearts and soles into the mission...because it was our mission...it was no longer a Canadian mission, but a Canadian forces mission...we were on our own...everything we achieve over there was at the cost of Canadian soldiers lives, nothing was for free...if we wanted better equipment soldiers had to die for it first...And you know what we were good with that...and so was the Canadian people.... So when you boil it all down to the bone, Canadians really lost the right to call this their mission....they gave up all the rights on anything about this mission....after all it was us doing the fighting, dying , bleeding....this pissed off alot of the Canadian public....Bullshit they said we pay taxes, we pay... you do....In the end we did, we bleed, we died, we shut the F*k up,but to us this was our mission..... Thats what is so hard to swallow, it is the very piont that they have the nerve to say anything at all, much less "IT WAS A WASTE OF TIME, and LIVES...our lives our time..... Quote We, the willing, led by the unknowing, are doing the impossible for the ungrateful. We have now done so much for so long with so little, we are now capable of doing anything with nothing.
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