Europe's resurgent far right focuses on immigration, multicultural

[Shwa]

Good CNN article, with some interesting comments at the bottom.

Europe's resurgent far right focuses on immigration, multiculturalism

The far right in Europe has enjoyed a renaissance over the past 30 years, driven by resentment of the growing powers of the European Union and by rejection of the "multiculturalism" that has accompanied rapid immigration from the developing world.

Of course we see an inkling of this in our mainstream right wing, the same arguments and complaints. Heck you could probably do a search on this forum and see some of that. But if you did an Google search, would you? Where is the Fraser Institute when you need it?

Without espousing such apocalyptic views, far-right political parties in Scandinavia have tapped into this anger -- and reaped dividends at the ballot box. The far-right Danish People's Party (Dansk Folkerpartis) has 25 seats in parliament; the Sweden Democrats Party won 5.7% of the vote in the 2010 election. In Finland, the True Finns party made a dramatic breakthrough in April's elections, gaining more than 1 in 5 votes.

Beyond Scandinavia, France's National Front won 15% of votes in the first round of regional elections in March 2010, even though it was not on the ballot in the entire country. President Nicolas Sarkozy's party only managed 2% better.

In the Netherlands, Geert Wilders (a politician admired by Breivik in his writings) has successfully stirred up hatred against Islam and the establishment; his Party for Freedom has become the country's third largest, with 24 seats in the Dutch parliament. Wilders has compared the Quran to Hitler's Mein Kampf and has tried to have it banned in the Netherlands.

And in 2009, the British National Party won enough votes to send two members to the European Parliament, a result that profoundly shocked the political establishment in the UK.

Interestingly enough, even comments about the 'far right' elements of the CPC are enough to get some MLW posters to comment. Are there any of these 'far right' advocates among those CPC elected in the last election and, if so, what percentage of them?

For generations, politics in Europe has been defined in terms of class: the contest between left and right, socialists against conservatives or Christian Democrats. It is still the prevailing divide, but recent election results and the resurgence of far-right groups suggest the issue of identity is beginning to intrude.

Is it long before mere partisanship devolves here into the kind of violence we are now seeing in Europe?

[eyeball]

Is it long before mere partisanship devolves here into the kind of violence we are now seeing in Europe?

Seems inevitable to me, as is the likelihood of a police state evolving out of that. Wait until the focus is on the economy and the hardship of descending through the bottleneck starts to bite though, I think that's when things will really get rolling. Only the mean will survive.

Cops, soldiers, prison guards etc will probably do well for themselves. Security and crackin' down and gettin' tough is bound to become one of the biggest economic drivers. Once the economy truly starts tanking the rich will probably have little else to invest in but guarding their own skins.

Of course all this will be and probably already is the left's fault. No doubt some wag somewhere now is penning an op-ed piece on how leftists brought this down on their own heads. Something about being soft on multi-cult or for just generally being soft. Not hard like all the pragmatic sensible right wingers.

Perhaps future generations will have some kind of test they can administer to weed out leftists when they're kids. Maybe a brain scan or something.

[Bob]

It's a ridiculous article. I came across it today, and it really annoyed me. It clearly tries to associate the politics of Anders Breivik with white-supremacy movements (i.e. the ideologies advanced as Stormfront - a white power discussion forum). The article is a perfect example of what Anders Breivik rails against, which is the disinformation campaign being waged against the West by a loose coalition between intellectuals, media, politicians, and interest groups. This article is clearly trying to associate criticism of existing immigration/multiculturalism policies in Europe with white-supremacy and "far-right" extremism.

The reality is the opposite - that socialism and Marxism is on the rise, working with "political correctness", as government continues to expand by taking up a larger and larger role in the economy, restricting social freedoms, and engaging in cultural suicide with irresponsible multiculturalism/immigration policies. CNN, as usual, has everything upside down.

Edited July 25, 2011 by Bob

[Shwa]

It's a ridiculous article. I came across it today, and it really annoyed me. It clearly tries to associate the politics of Anders Breivik with white-supremacy movements (i.e. the ideologies advanced as Stormfront - a white power discussion forum). The article is a perfect example of what Anders Breivik rails against, which is the disinformation campaign being waged against the West by a loose coalition between intellectuals, media, politicians, and interest groups. This article is clearly trying to associate criticism of existing immigration/multiculturalism policies in Europe with white-supremacy and "far-right" extremism.

The reality is the opposite - that socialism and Marxism is on the rise, working with "political correctness", as government continues to expand by taking up a larger and larger role in the economy, restricting social freedoms, and engaging in cultural suicide with irresponsible multiculturalism/immigration policies. CNN, as usual, has everything upside down.

if the shoe fits...

Besides, you have already more or less admitted that Breivik is a sane mainstream Right Winger like yourself, who agrees with his politics. And after all that, there are only his actions left.

As in his case, the same, mainstream Right Wing isn't satisfied with mere Muslims and other undesirables, they literally are hunting liberals now. (as opposed to the Sarah Palin figurative gun sight fiasco).

As for CNN, no doubt, their liberal bias is showing again.

[Michael Hardner]

As in his case, the same, mainstream Right Wing isn't satisfied with mere Muslims and other undesirables, they literally are hunting liberals now. (as opposed to the Sarah Palin figurative gun sight fiasco).

The implication for me, too, is that you can blame this violence on immigration too since obviously this poor man was driven over the edge by political correctness. Add more to the total for Muslim terrorism, I guess.

[Shady]

Unfortunately, these actions may become less and less rare. It's part of what happens when people see their human rights, like free speech shut down to submit to the sensitivities of new immigrants. See Danish cartoons for example. When people start having their rights taken away, they get angry. And when you combine that anger with a psycho like in this case, violence is sure to take place.

Edited July 25, 2011 by Shady

[Shwa]

Unfortunately, these actions may become less and less rare. It's part of what happens when people see their human rights, like free speech shut down to submit to the sensitivities of new immigrants. See Danish cartoons for example. When people start having their rights taken away, they get angry. And when you combine that anger with a psycho like in this case, violence is sure to take place.

Wait a minute. Did the people of Denmark have any rights or free speech "taken away" over those cartoons?

[August1991]

It's a ridiculous article. I came across it today, and it really annoyed me. It clearly tries to associate the politics of Anders Breivik with white-supremacy movements (i.e. the ideologies advanced as Stormfront - a white power discussion forum). The article is a perfect example of what Anders Breivik rails against, which is the disinformation campaign being waged against the West by a loose coalition between intellectuals, media, politicians, and interest groups. This article is clearly trying to associate criticism of existing immigration/multiculturalism policies in Europe with white-supremacy and "far-right" extremism.

Sorry Bob, I pay little attention/give no credence to any lunatic who kills random, innocent kids. Other than to try to understand the psychotic mind, would you read the rantings of Paul Bernardo or Charles Manson? They were/are crazy and they say nonsense.

Anders Breivik is apparently nuts. I wouldn't draw any other conclusion from his actions, writings, interviews.

When Marc Lepine shot innocent female students in Montreal, some people tried to turn his choice of victims into a political statement. Later, others tried to turn his origins into a different political statement. IMV, Marc Lepine was a lunatic.

It would be as if someone used David Berkowitz (Son of Sam) to argue that fat people hate disco. In the words of the arresting officers, Berkowitz was a "fruitcake". It's a good description. Lunatics and fruitcakes spout all kinds of nonsense, and sometimes commit horrific actions.

---

How do we prevent such horrific events in the future?

1) Better, more focussed gun control.

2) More sensible people around, possibly armed.

In the case of Norway, this guy should never have had access to such weapons in the first place.

Second, he caused such tragedy because no one around stopped him. In the case of the Dawson college shootings for example, by chance a police officer arrived and shot the lunatic before he could harm many people. In the case of the Virgina Tech shootings, unarmed professors defended their students.

I have no problem living in a society where police officers carry guns but most people don't.

Edited July 25, 2011 by August1991

[Bob]

Sorry Bob, I pay little attention/give no credence to any lunatic who kills random, innocent kids. Other than to try to understand the psychotic mind, would you read the rantings of Paul Bernardo or Charles Manson? They were/are crazy and they say nonsense.

Anders Breivik is apparently nuts. I wouldn't draw any other conclusion from his actions, writings, interviews.

When Marc Lepine shot innocent female students in Montreal, some people tried to turn his choice of victims into a political statement. Later, others tried to turn his origins into a different political statement. IMV, Marc Lepine was a lunatic.

It would be as if someone used David Berkowitz (Son of Sam) to argue that fat people hate disco. In the words of the arresting officers, Berkowitz was a "fruitcake". It's a good description. Lunatics and fruitcakes spout all kinds of nonsense, and sometimes commit horrific actions.

---

How do we prevent such horrific events in the future?

1) Better, more focussed gun control.

2) More sensible people around, possibly armed.

In the case of Norway, this guy should never have had access to such weapons in the first place.

Second, he caused such tragedy because no one around stopped him. In the case of the Dawson college shootings for example, by chance a police officer arrived and shot the lunatic before he could harm many people. In the case of the Virgina Tech shootings, unarmed professors defended their students.

I have no problem living in a society where police officers carry guns but most people don't.

I agree with your assessment on gun issues - I immediately thought that this tragedy could have perhaps been lessened in the event of more prevalent gun ownership. But remember, that the majority of the victims of this massacre occurred on an isolated island. I'm not sure liberalized gun control could have made a difference.

As far as him being a nutcase, well, there is no question there is something deeply wrong with a man who can do something so horrific. That doesn't take away from the validity of his politics. Keep in mind that he is not particularly original, the positions he advances in his manifesto (about half of which was not written by him), are not new. I would not compare him to Bernardo, although he perhaps has some similarities to Lepine - in the sense that he self-radicalized and made himself into a monster. Lastly, I do not accept Lepine's anti-feminist narrative, but I accept and agree with Breivik's opposition to existing immigration/multiculturalism policies in Europe, particularly with respect to what he views as the Islamisation of Europe and the unholy alliance between Islamism and what he describes as "cultural Marxists".

[August1991]

I agree with your assessment on gun issues - I immediately thought that this tragedy could have perhaps been lessened in the event of more prevalent gun ownership. But remember, that the majority of the victims of this massacre occurred on an isolated island. I'm not sure liberalized gun control could have made a difference.

As far as him being a nutcase, well, there is no question there is something deeply wrong with a man who can do something so horrific. That doesn't take away from the validity of his politics.

Validity of his politics? What of the validity of the politics of David Berkowitz?

Berkowitz was a nut case. IME, it is a waste of time to draw any conclusion from the ravings of such lunatics who commit such acts.

[Bob]

Validity of his politics? What of the validity of the politics of David Berkowitz?

Berkowitz was a nut case. IME, it is a waste of time to draw any conclusion from the ravings of such lunatics who commit such acts.

Instead of writing off his politics because of his reprehensible act of mass murder, why not take some time to peruse his manifesto and watch his video? His opposition to contemporary policies of multiculturalism and immigration in Norway and broader Europe, in my view, is very justified. He accurately describes a complex and multifaceted disinformation campaign waged against the public by a loose coalition of intellectuals, media, politicians, and interest groups - who he defines a "cultural Marxists".

From what I've read in his manifesto, at leas the first 100-ish pages I skimmed through, he's bang on. It gets quite frightening when you get to the part where he describes self-indoctrination and planning of such an attack. Truly chilling. To compare him to people like Berkowitz, however, is misleading. He's not that category of criminal.

[Shwa]

Instead of writing off his politics because of his reprehensible act of mass murder, why not take some time to peruse his manifesto and watch his video? His opposition to contemporary policies of multiculturalism and immigration in Norway and broader Europe, in my view, is very justified.

How on earth are his ideas "justified?" The ideas that led him to mass murder are justifiable, but the mass murder itself is not.

He accurately describes a complex and multifaceted disinformation campaign waged against the public by a loose coalition of intellectuals, media, politicians, and interest groups - who he defines a "cultural Marxists".

Right, the liberally biased media, intellectials, politicians and interest groups waging a disinformation campaign for what purpose? Oh, right. "Cultural suicide."

LOFL! Come on Bob, how many mass murders has a liberal committed lately? I am betting that the liberal view AND the resultant acts are far more justified than the ravings of a Right Wing lunatic.

From what I've read in his manifesto, at leas the first 100-ish pages I skimmed through, he's bang on. It gets quite frightening when you get to the part where he describes self-indoctrination and planning of such an attack. Truly chilling. To compare him to people like Berkowitz, however, is misleading. He's not that category of criminal.

Well that is where his justified views logically led him isn't it Bob? First there is the manifesto, then the bombings and killing of children. Where is the real disconnect Bob?

[Bob]

His self-indoctrination made him a killer, not his views. I share his views, and I certainly have no sympathy for mass murder. There are many millions of people like myself that share many of Anders Breivik's views, and we are not sympathetic in any way whatsoever of what this monster did. Don't forget, these views are not Anders Breivik's originals, they've been around long before the day he did what he did. Your attempt to smear those of us who hold those views as being murderous, which you describe as the logical conclusion of such views, is a typical attempt to smear views you don't like. Basically, rather than engage in debate, you just conveniently suggest that what I really want is mass murder of youth, since I agree with the mass murderer's politics.

[DogOnPorch]

His self-indoctrination made him a killer, not his views. I share his views, and I certainly have no sympathy for mass murder. There are many millions of people like myself that share many of Anders Breivik's views, and we are not sympathetic in any way whatsoever of what this monster did. Don't forget, these views are not Anders Breivik's originals, they've been around long before the day he did what he did. Your attempt to smear those of us who hold those views as being murderous, which you describe as the logical conclusion of such views, is a typical attempt to smear views you don't like. Basically, rather than engage in debate, you just conveniently suggest that what I really want is mass murder of youth, since I agree with the mass murderer's politics.

As mentioned in the other Norway/Mass Murder thread: many are commiting the "Tu Quoque Fallacy". No need to worry about Islam's terrorism...we have our "own" now.

[Remiel]

The reality is the opposite - that socialism and Marxism is on the rise, working with "political correctness", as government continues to expand by taking up a larger and larger role in the economy, restricting social freedoms, and engaging in cultural suicide with irresponsible multiculturalism/immigration policies. CNN, as usual, has everything upside down.

That is complete bullshit. If there was is one man in all of Europe who has taken up the banner of political correctness, it is Breivik.

[jacee]

His self-indoctrination made him a killer, not his views. I share his views, and I certainly have no sympathy for mass murder. There are many millions of people like myself that share many of Anders Breivik's views, and we are not sympathetic in any way whatsoever of what this monster did. Don't forget, these views are not Anders Breivik's originals, they've been around long before the day he did what he did. Your attempt to smear those of us who hold those views as being murderous, which you describe as the logical conclusion of Isuch views, is a typical attempt to smear views you don't like. Basically, rather than engage in debate, you just conveniently suggest that what I really want is mass murder of youth, since I agree with the mass murderer's politics.

Is it different when the youth are protesting and are killed by the government?

[TimG]

Second, he caused such tragedy because no one around stopped him.

Oslo police had one helicopter crew and the entire crew was on vacation. This is a shameful failure on the part of the police and they deserve a lot of the blame for the high death toll. Emergency services should never be left unmanned because of vacation time for members.

[Peter F]

Second, he caused such tragedy because no one around stopped him.

No. He caused such tragedy because he made a bomb and set it off and shot a whole bunch of people. The actions and/or inactions of others did not cause the tragedy.

[TimG]

No. He caused such tragedy because he made a bomb and set it off and shot a whole bunch of people. The actions and/or inactions of others did not cause the tragedy.

So you are arguing that the fire department is blameless if building fire ends up burning down an entire block because the fire department was on vacation? It is rather absurd position to take whenn dealing with people who are paid to stop fires.

[Peter F]

So you are arguing that the fire department is blameless if building fire ends up burning down an entire block because the fire department was on vacation? It is rather absurd position to take whenn dealing with people who are paid to stop fires.

No. I am saying that the guy doing the shooting is 100% responsible for the deaths of the people he shot/blew up.

[TimG]

No. I am saying that the guy doing the shooting is 100% responsible for the deaths of the people he shot/blew up.

In other words, you are saying that people paid to protect the public should not be held accountable for their screw ups that result in the deaths or destruction of property. It is a rediculous position to take. Edited July 26, 2011 by TimG

[Peter F]

In other words, you are saying that people paid to protect the public should not be held accountable for their screw ups that result in the deaths or destruction of property. It is a rediculous position to take.

So, I take it then, that the shooter isn't responsible for actually shooting people?

[TimG]

I thought this is a good comment illustrating the pathetic opportunism of the left wing commentators:

Blaming the Norwegian slaughter on xenophobic rhetoric makes about as much sense as blaming mail bombings on Al Gore, just because Ted Kaczynski had a marked-up copy of Earth in the Balance at his bedside.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/opinions/opinion/whos-to-blame-for-norways-tragedy/article2109213/

Where are the condemnations of Al Gore and his heated rhetoric that encourages unhinged people to resort to violence? (e.g. the Discovery Channel terroist a while back).

Edited July 26, 2011 by TimG

[TimG]

So, I take it then, that the shooter isn't responsible for actually shooting people?

The shooter is obviously responsible but the carnage was greater than it needed to be because of the incompetence of the police. Why do you have a problem with concept of people sharing the blame for incident? Edited July 26, 2011 by TimG

[Peter F]

The shooter is obviously responsible but the carnage was greater than it needed to be because of the incompetence of the police. Why do you have a problem with conception of people sharing the blame for incident?

Sharing the blame? I would say they shared the blame if they took turns shooting people. But they didn't. only one person shot people. Ergo that person carries full responsibility for the shootings. It isnt the cops fault that the shooter shot people.