Scotty Posted June 25, 2011 Author Report Posted June 25, 2011 And this is what the NDP are fighting for. I was under the assumption that the NDP wanted to help the everyday, poor worker? Not those who already live well above the poverty level. I guess I was wrong. Those people are doing nicely, and their employer wants to now roll back wages, roll back benefits, increase contribution rates, etc. You think the NDP ought to be okay with that? Quote It is an inverted moral calculus that tries to persuade the world to demonize one state that tries its civilized best to abide in a difficult time and place, and rides merrily by the examples and practices of dozens of states and leaderships that drop into brutality every day without a twinge of regret or a whisper of condemnation. - Rex Murphy
MiddleClassCentrist Posted June 25, 2011 Report Posted June 25, 2011 Maybe he has an Philosophy or Social Sciences degree? Aren't you a teacher? Of course you're qualified for 95k after 5 years. You're in a public sector union. "If you ever step out into the real world (aka the private sector), you'd realize there's a difference between "qualified for" and what you actually get hired for when in a recession." What's stopping you from applying to private sector jobs? Go ahead and let us know how many 95k jobs you get interviews for. Another jealous conservative lashing out at people who are paid more than they are. They don't believe in working hard, they believe in bringing everyone elses salary down to make them look better! Yeah, computer engineering, interfacing and robotics is such a low demand career... I hope I develop a product that takes over your job for you in the future. Sooner rather than later, then I'd really see you foam at the mouth in support of the capitalism that took your job away from you! Quote Ideology does not make good policy. Good policy comes from an analysis of options, comparison of options and selection of one option that works best in the current situation. This option is often a compromise between ideologies.
Evening Star Posted June 25, 2011 Report Posted June 25, 2011 Pegasus, have you been voting NDP for 20 years because you thought they were in favour of bringing unionized public sector compensation closer to the poverty line? You're disillusioned because they're fighting for the middle class? Quote
CPCFTW Posted June 25, 2011 Report Posted June 25, 2011 (edited) Another jealous conservative lashing out at people who are paid more than they are. They don't believe in working hard, they believe in bringing everyone elses salary down to make them look better! Yeah, computer engineering, interfacing and robotics is such a low demand career... I hope I develop a product that takes over your job for you in the future. Sooner rather than later, then I'd really see you foam at the mouth in support of the capitalism that took your job away from you! So you're not a teacher? Why didn't you just say so? You hope to make others poor? The true nature of those who incessantly try to claim the moral highground is revealed. Anyone with a differing opinion should be made to suffer! How altruistic of you! I wouldn't complain too much though, automation is progress towards a more productive society. But first, can you design some robots to roll around and drop mail in people's boxes? It would surely be easier to design than one to do my job. Yours is a good career, but that doesn't mean that you know anything about economics. Furthermore, it doesn't mean that anyone with a degree should make 95k within 5 years of graduating. Edited June 25, 2011 by CPCFTW Quote
Smallc Posted June 26, 2011 Report Posted June 26, 2011 The NDP didn't pick this for strategic reasons. And that's because they're stupid ideologues, I suppose. Quote
Evening Star Posted June 26, 2011 Report Posted June 26, 2011 (edited) And that's because they're stupid ideologues, I suppose. You don't think a labour party would lose credibility if they didn't fight this? Given all the circumstances - the lockout, the back-to-work bill that is less generous than management's offer? Especially considering that postal workers' jobs are actually physically demanding? Edited June 26, 2011 by Evening Star Quote
Jack Weber Posted June 26, 2011 Report Posted June 26, 2011 And that's because they're stupid ideologues, I suppose. Standing up for collective bargaining rights is a stupid idea? Quote The beatings will continue until morale improves!!!
Smallc Posted June 26, 2011 Report Posted June 26, 2011 You don't think a labour party would lose credibility if they didn't fight this? Given all the circumstances - the lockout, the back-to-work bill that is less generous than management's offer? Especially considering that postal workers' jobs are actually physically demanding? You're right...I just think that now that they're in a position of power, they should maybe pick their battles more carefully. As Gary Doer told his colleagues a couple of years ago, it's easy to pontificate from an ivory tower, but it's more useful to be pragmatic and actually get into government so you can pass some of your policies. Quote
Jack Weber Posted June 26, 2011 Report Posted June 26, 2011 You're right...I just think that now that they're in a position of power, they should maybe pick their battles more carefully. As Gary Doer told his colleagues a couple of years ago, it's easy to pontificate from an ivory tower, but it's more useful to be pragmatic and actually get into government so you can pass some of your policies. Then what fight,vis a vis an attack on collective bargaining rights,should they pick? Quote The beatings will continue until morale improves!!!
Shady Posted June 26, 2011 Report Posted June 26, 2011 Anyone know when these idiots are gonna be back to work? Quote
Jack Weber Posted June 26, 2011 Report Posted June 26, 2011 Anyone know when these idiots are gonna be back to work? They'd be back to work right now if the company/gov't would follow CUPW's lead and bargain retroactively... The mail would also be moving if the employer had not taken job action against the bargaining unit.. Quote The beatings will continue until morale improves!!!
Smallc Posted June 26, 2011 Report Posted June 26, 2011 Then what fight,vis a vis an attack on collective bargaining rights,should they pick? One that the public actually has even a small amount of support for. I'm not saying whether their position vis a vis Canada post was right or wrong. I'm just saying that in the eyes of the public, the CUPW )and by extension the NDP) NDP was very much in the wrong. I mean, for heavens sake - the employer gave into almost every one of their demands, and still they persisted. That's just terrible optics. Quote
Jack Weber Posted June 26, 2011 Report Posted June 26, 2011 One that the public actually has even a small amount of support for. I'm not saying whether their position vis a vis Canada post was right or wrong. I'm just saying that in the eyes of the public, the CUPW )and by extension the NDP) NDP was very much in the wrong. I mean, for heavens sake - the employer gave into almost every one of their demands, and still they persisted. That's just terrible optics. What planet are you on?? If the company gave into everyone of CUPW's demands why is the bargaining unit LOCKED OUT? Why is the offer the company (through the Conservative gov't) even less than the final offer from the company?? Why ,if this goes to arbitration,is the arbitrator having his hands tied by the federal gov't??? If the public cannot see the horrendous precedent setting actions that are taking place here,as it relates to labour relations in this country, that's not the NDP's fault...And working people will be the ones who will suffer in the end if all they want is a speedy,and completely incorrect,conclusion... Quote The beatings will continue until morale improves!!!
Smallc Posted June 26, 2011 Report Posted June 26, 2011 If the company gave into everyone of CUPW's demands why is the bargaining unit LOCKED OUT? Not every one, almost every one. That's why it's called bargaining. You give and take, no one ends up completely happy. Quote
Jack Weber Posted June 26, 2011 Report Posted June 26, 2011 Not every one, almost every one. That's why it's called bargaining. You give and take, no one ends up completely happy. What demands were met?? It seems that CUPW did'nt take the final offer from the company,started rotating strikes...The company then locked them out...And now the federal gov't has passed back to work legislation,forcing an even worse offer on the bargaining unit... Seems the only demands here were the ones made by the company with it's willing legislative enablers in its hip pocket...And those objectives have been clearly met.. That's not bargaining at all... Quote The beatings will continue until morale improves!!!
Smallc Posted June 26, 2011 Report Posted June 26, 2011 What demands were met?? It seems that CUPW did'nt take the final offer from the company,started rotating strikes...The company then locked them out... Because they were losing money. They were paying all of these people to do nothing, because no one was sending mail. Canada Post gave in to demands on everything but wages for new hires. You can't get everything you want in this climate. Quote
Bryan Posted June 26, 2011 Report Posted June 26, 2011 (edited) Jack, the rotating strike game is what necessitated the lockout. Business dropped off dramatically once the rotating strikes started, the corporation couldn't afford to let that continue. The loss in business also necessitated that future contracts would have to cost the corporation less than what they had previously offered before the rotating strikes started. Allowed to continue, each successive offer would have to be lower than the last until the workers decide they can't afford to lose any more either. Edited June 26, 2011 by Bryan Quote
pegasus Posted June 26, 2011 Report Posted June 26, 2011 (edited) Salary for 1st year medical resident - $ 41 355 up to a maximum after 7 years to $ 64 398 http://www.carms.ca/eng/r1_program_salaries_e.shtml#QC in Quebec Salary for 1st year postal worker is $42,000.00 up to a maximum of $60,000 a year http://www.glassdoor.com/Salary/Canada-Post-Salaries-E8747.htm This is ridiculous and they allow some of the most unskilled and unmarketable workers in the country to obtain wages which would otherwise be impossible to get in the real world. Meanwhile 390,000 qualified Canadians are unemployed. Psychologists in Quebec, who are in demand and must wield a PhD in order to practice, are paid 20$ an hour to a ceiling of not even $40 an hour. http://www.montrealgazette.com/health/Gazette+View+Quebec+mental+health+system+needs+therapy/4754173/story.html Please remember the legislation includes wage increases for workers that are lower than what Canada Post included in its last offer to the union, but are on par with what other public sector employees are attaining. Edited June 26, 2011 by pegasus Quote
Scotty Posted June 26, 2011 Author Report Posted June 26, 2011 (edited) del Edited June 26, 2011 by Scotty Quote It is an inverted moral calculus that tries to persuade the world to demonize one state that tries its civilized best to abide in a difficult time and place, and rides merrily by the examples and practices of dozens of states and leaderships that drop into brutality every day without a twinge of regret or a whisper of condemnation. - Rex Murphy
Scotty Posted June 26, 2011 Author Report Posted June 26, 2011 (edited) And that's because they're stupid ideologues, I suppose. You think any political party which has principles are stupid ideologues? Edited June 26, 2011 by Scotty Quote It is an inverted moral calculus that tries to persuade the world to demonize one state that tries its civilized best to abide in a difficult time and place, and rides merrily by the examples and practices of dozens of states and leaderships that drop into brutality every day without a twinge of regret or a whisper of condemnation. - Rex Murphy
Smallc Posted June 26, 2011 Report Posted June 26, 2011 You think any political party which has principles are stupid ideologues? Unbending principles? Yes. Quote
cybercoma Posted June 27, 2011 Report Posted June 27, 2011 Smallc, this isn't an ideological fight. The NDP didn't side with the unions at all. Let's look at an alternate universe where the NDP pulled the ideological shenanigans of the Conservative government. Canada Post and its workers are going through negotiations. Due to reduced business, Canada Post reduces mail delivery to 4 days a week on rotation to different areas in Canada. The Unions complain to the government that this is hurting their employees who are being forced to take a day off without pay for no reason. The NDP Minister of Labour says she won't legislate until all mail stops. The Union two days later stops all mail deliver and strikes. Three days later, the NDP puts forward legislation that would force Canada Post to give a 2% higher wage to its employees than the final offer by union. Moreover, the arbitrator is not allowed any discretion in his or her decision-making and must choose one of the final offers in their entirety. Do you still support that legislation? I know I don't. Quote
PIK Posted June 27, 2011 Report Posted June 27, 2011 They had 2 choices, take the offer that canada post gave them or take on the goverment and take less, they chose #2, they are all idiots and now need to be treated as such. Quote Toronto, like a roach motel in the middle of a pretty living room.
Smallc Posted June 27, 2011 Report Posted June 27, 2011 Do you still support that legislation? No, but then your analogy is ridiculous. Quote
cybercoma Posted June 28, 2011 Report Posted June 28, 2011 No, but then your analogy is ridiculous. Exactly my point. It seems ridiculous because you would never see the government siding with labour like that. That's the ridiculous part. The government should have not written half the shit into the legislation that they did. Quote
.thumb.jpg.9a49e1b2f22a6d34a345152c50044aa9.jpg)
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.