RNG Posted June 25, 2011 Report Share Posted June 25, 2011 My solution would be to privatize Canada Post, provide grandfather protection to existing workers and let's move on. It can't come soon enough. But we can't. All civil service DB pensions are a Ponzi scheme. Come to think about it, so are UAW pensions. Who will pay the grandfathered ones? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
capricorn Posted June 25, 2011 Report Share Posted June 25, 2011 Who will pay the grandfathered ones? We taxpayers of course. It would work just like attrition: as long as employees on strength at the time of privatization are in that workforce, they lose nothing of their accrued benefits. New hires would not qualify for a DB pension plan because it would no longer be offered under private ownership. The same principle would apply to leave and hours of work provisions. Any new pension plan or benefit package would be subject to whatever options offered by the new Canada Post owners. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pegasus Posted June 25, 2011 Report Share Posted June 25, 2011 I feel no remorse for postal workers. I'm sorry. After I graduated University, me and a friend of mine, who were both out of work at the time, applied to Canada Post as letter carriers. My friend, who didn't even finish High School, got a position and today owns a $300,000 home with two new cars in his garage. He's also going to retire with a sweet package. Meanwhile, even though I too am unionized, but work in the private sector, I earn approximately $25,000 a year, with medical benefits I pay for out of my salary, at top dollar, which I must buy into, even though I get a better deal through my Alumni Association, and am jumping up and down for joy if I have more than $1,000 left in my bank account after I pay my utilities and rent and food bills for the month. From what I have learned from my friend, Canada Post hires by lottery, and not by skill. I have been applying every 6 months since I graduated at 22 years old. I have stopped this year seeing as to how I'm now 40. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CPCFTW Posted June 25, 2011 Report Share Posted June 25, 2011 I feel no remorse for postal workers. I'm sorry. After I graduated University, me and a friend of mine, who were both out of work at the time, applied to Canada Post as letter carriers. My friend, who didn't even finish High School, got a position and today owns a $300,000 home with two new cars in his garage. He's also going to retire with a sweet package. Poor guy. Sounds like he's barely scraping by. Well I guess he's earned it with all that money we invested in his incomplete high school education. You know what they say "a little hard work goes a long way"... or wait was it "slack off until you're 18 and you'll be set for life"? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evening Star Posted June 25, 2011 Report Share Posted June 25, 2011 Since I don't have a life, I've been listening on and off to the debates in the House over Bill C-6. I heard Layton deplore that he personally has seen postal workers with braces on their arms due to the physical effort and hardship of handling so many pieces of mail in a repetitive fashion: he praised their tenacity in delivering this most important service to 33 million Canadians at great personal peril. A fellow NDP comrade told us those who deliver mail develop unique relationships with seniors, the disabled and other Canadians who he says value this personal touch in their daily lives. I'm certain this MP thinks only unionized workers can foster these amiable contacts. Oh, well... The debate is fun (to tune in on and off)! Pat Martin's and Glen Thibeault's speeches were epic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smallc Posted June 25, 2011 Report Share Posted June 25, 2011 The debate though, at least to me, does show that the NDP isn't ready for prime time though. They're just not with Canadians on this. Canadians don't see where they're coming from. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evening Star Posted June 25, 2011 Report Share Posted June 25, 2011 The debate though, at least to me, does show that the NDP isn't ready for prime time though. They're just not with Canadians on this. Canadians don't see where they're coming from. Do you mean that they shouldn't be doing this at all or just that the content of the speeches fails to resonate? I couldn't really see the NDP backing back-to-work legislation. And I'm guessing their (current) QC base does tend to side with the unions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smallc Posted June 25, 2011 Report Share Posted June 25, 2011 Do you mean that they shouldn't be doing this at all or just that the content of the speeches fails to resonate? I'm saying the content of most of their speeches. The fact is, most Canadians are on the side of the government on this one. I think that the NDP picked the wrong battle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pegasus Posted June 25, 2011 Report Share Posted June 25, 2011 (edited) It would be nice if the NDP stood up and fought for those who earn little at their unionized jobs in the private sector i.e. around $25,000 a year, and are getting pay cuts. But instead they fight for pay increases for people who work in jobs such as this: Department Name: Department of XXXX Location: Someplace in Canada Classification: This or That Salary: $39,395 to $47,114 Closing Date: The end of today, Pacific Time Useful Information Reference Number: xxxxxxxxx Selection Process Number: xxxxxxxxxx Employment Tenure: May be used for Full-time, Part-time, Casual, Acting, Term & Indeterminate Vacancies: 2 Website: For further information on the department, please visit Department of xxxxx Who Can Apply: Useful Information * Persons residing in Canada and Canadian citizens residing abroad. Citizenship Useful Information Preference will be given to Canadian citizens. Please indicate in your application the reason for which you are entitled to work in Canada: Canadian citizenship, permanent resident status or work permit. Language Proficiency Useful Information Applicants must demonstrate in their application that they meet the following merit criteria to be retained for further consideration. English essential Education Useful Information Successful completion of two years of Secondary School or an Employer approved alternative (a satisfactory score on the Public Service Commission’s test approved as an alternative to two years of secondary school education OR a combination of education, training and/or experience). Experience Experience in general office practices. Experience in providing administrative services including taking minutes and making travel arrangements. Experience in the use of personal computers utilizing WordPerfect, MS Word and Excel. Statement of Merit Criteria A cover letter etc. Applied to by yours truly, and have applied to thousands of similar positions in the last 18 years. I have yet to be interviewed. Its a lottery. Edited June 25, 2011 by pegasus Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pegasus Posted June 25, 2011 Report Share Posted June 25, 2011 You know what they say "a little hard work goes a long way"... or wait was it "slack off until you're 18 and you'll be set for life"? And this is what the NDP are fighting for. I was under the assumption that the NDP wanted to help the everyday, poor worker? Not those who already live well above the poverty level. I guess I was wrong. Way to go, fighting the good fight NDP MPs. Maybe they'll start by fighting for those who already earn ridiculously high salaries then work their way down? I guess I can also look up to the sky and hope to see pigs flying as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evening Star Posted June 25, 2011 Report Share Posted June 25, 2011 (edited) I'm saying the content of most of their speeches. The fact is, most Canadians are on the side of the government on this one. I think that the NDP picked the wrong battle. I mean, you're right, but that's part of what makes this exciting for me in a weird way. I think I actually respect them more for standing up for this cause despite the public mood. Edited June 25, 2011 by Evening Star Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smallc Posted June 25, 2011 Report Share Posted June 25, 2011 I mean, you're right, but that's part of what makes this exciting for me in a weird way. I think I actually respect them more for standing up for this cause despite the public mood. I suppose that's one way of looking at it Just, to me, it doesn't bode well for their future chances of governing. Governing Canada is a story of pragmatism. This just doesn't seem pragmatic to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evening Star Posted June 25, 2011 Report Share Posted June 25, 2011 (edited) I suppose that's one way of looking at it Just, to me, it doesn't bode well for their future chances of governing. Governing Canada is a story of pragmatism. This just doesn't seem pragmatic to me. I do see where you're coming from and you may be right. At the same time, my guess is that they're trying to solidify their labour support and especially their base in QC, the most union-happy province in the country. Maintaining this solid core base of contributors and volunteers (and likely long-term voters) may prove more valuable in the long run, when the general public has moved on from this specific issue in four years. Rob Russo made the very salient point on P&P that the Conservatives could have easily shortened this by not asking questions. They seem to want this to drag on as well, since their base (and probably a majority of the public) will likely grow more frustrated with the Opposition as it goes on. Edited June 25, 2011 by Evening Star Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evening Star Posted June 25, 2011 Report Share Posted June 25, 2011 (edited) We saw how well an excess of 'pragmatism' (at least in the sense of desperately trying to be all things to all people and always play to the middle) over principle worked out for the Liberals in the end. Edited June 25, 2011 by Evening Star Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smallc Posted June 25, 2011 Report Share Posted June 25, 2011 We saw how well an excess of 'pragmatism' (at least in the sense of desperately trying to be all things to all people and always play to the middle) over principle worked out for the Liberals in the end. Actually, I'd argue that isn't what killed the Liberals. I think that combination of indecisive leadership, infighting, a bad scandal, and the new Conservative party (also very pragmatic, although not as much so) is what has kept the Liberals down. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bonam Posted June 25, 2011 Report Share Posted June 25, 2011 It would be nice if the NDP stood up and fought for those who earn little at their unionized jobs in the private sector i.e. around $25,000 a year, and are getting pay cuts. But instead they fight for pay increases for people who work in jobs such as this: Department Name: Department of XXXX Location: Someplace in Canada Classification: This or That Salary: $39,395 to $47,114 Closing Date: The end of today, Pacific Time Useful Information Reference Number: xxxxxxxxx Selection Process Number: xxxxxxxxxx Employment Tenure: May be used for Full-time, Part-time, Casual, Acting, Term & Indeterminate Vacancies: 2 .... A cover letter etc. Applied to by yours truly, and have applied to thousands of similar positions in the last 18 years. I have yet to be interviewed. Its a lottery. Maybe you're just not writing very good cover letters? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cybercoma Posted June 25, 2011 Report Share Posted June 25, 2011 I'm certain this MP thinks only unionized workers can foster these amiable contacts. Oh, well...It sounds like you're advocating union busting, which is illegal. It is not even worth discussing, since ALL workers have a right to bargain collectively.I think it's time for postal workers to bite the bullet and accept what I think are better than average benefits for the type of work they perform.It doesn't really matter what YOU think. It's not your job, so you don't have any right to interfere in those employees negotiations with their employer. What benefits are fair will be determined by those negotiations between employees and employer. Who should not be determining what benefits are fair is the state by creating legislation that forces employees into a worse position than the last one offered by their employer.My solution would be to privatize Canada Post, provide grandfather protection to existing workers and let's move on. It can't come soon enough.That wouldn't change the current situation. Again, the employees have every right to bargain collectively with their employer. Whether it's a private corporation or a crown corporation makes no different. The only difference it would make is that the government would then look even worse for jumping in to save the employer's ass. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cybercoma Posted June 25, 2011 Report Share Posted June 25, 2011 I feel no remorse for postal workers. I'm sorry. After I graduated University, me and a friend of mine, who were both out of work at the time, applied to Canada Post as letter carriers. My friend, who didn't even finish High School, got a position and today owns a $300,000 home with two new cars in his garage. He's also going to retire with a sweet package. Meanwhile, even though I too am unionized, but work in the private sector, I earn approximately $25,000 a year, with medical benefits I pay for out of my salary, at top dollar, which I must buy into, even though I get a better deal through my Alumni Association, and am jumping up and down for joy if I have more than $1,000 left in my bank account after I pay my utilities and rent and food bills for the month. From what I have learned from my friend, Canada Post hires by lottery, and not by skill. I have been applying every 6 months since I graduated at 22 years old. I have stopped this year seeing as to how I'm now 40. You sound like nothing more than a jealous prick. If you can't have those benefits, then no one should, right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CPCFTW Posted June 25, 2011 Report Share Posted June 25, 2011 (edited) You sound like nothing more than a jealous prick. If you can't have those benefits, then no one should, right? People should earn those benefits by working hard and educating themselves. Not by dropping out of high school and blackmailing taxpayers by uniting with other high school dropouts. I don't even mind unions outside of the public sector. If they want to ship their jobs overseas then that's up to them. Speaking of shipping jobs overseas, how's that "strong middle class" in Detroit doing Layton jr.? If you love unions so much, maybe you should sell your car and go buy a home in Detroit. Edited June 25, 2011 by CPCFTW Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CPCFTW Posted June 25, 2011 Report Share Posted June 25, 2011 (edited) It sounds like you're advocating union busting, which is illegal. It is not even worth discussing, since ALL workers have a right to bargain collectively. How does that sound like union busting at all? He's saying that non-unionized workers can foster relationships with the community as well while the NDP keep championing the relationships unions build within their communities. Learn to read please. Edited June 25, 2011 by CPCFTW Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MiddleClassCentrist Posted June 25, 2011 Report Share Posted June 25, 2011 (edited) Meanwhile, even though I too am unionized, but work in the private sector, I earn approximately $25,000 a year, with medical benefits I pay for out of my salary, at top dollar, which I must buy into, even though I get a better deal through my Alumni Association, and am jumping up and down for joy if I have more than $1,000 left in my bank account after I pay my utilities and rent and food bills for the month. You only make 25k a year with post-secondary education after 18years? MAN!!! I look at jobs I am qualified for with 5 years experience for 95k... I guess I would take it out on everyone else demanding everyone receive crappy pay like mine too but, I'd have no one to blame but myself. Edited June 25, 2011 by MiddleClassCentrist Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CPCFTW Posted June 25, 2011 Report Share Posted June 25, 2011 You only make 25k a year with post-secondary education after 18years? MAN!!! I look at jobs I am qualified for with 5 years experience for 95k... I guess I would take it out on everyone else demanding everyone receive crappy pay like mine too but, I'd have no one to blame but myself. Maybe he has an Philosophy or Social Sciences degree? Aren't you a teacher? Of course you're qualified for 95k after 5 years. You're in a public sector union. If you ever step out into the real world (aka the private sector), you'd realize there's a difference between "qualified for" and what you actually get hired for when in a recession. What's stopping you from applying to private sector jobs? Go ahead and let us know how many 95k jobs you get interviews for. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir Bandelot Posted June 25, 2011 Report Share Posted June 25, 2011 Maybe he has an Philosophy or Social Sciences degree? Aren't you a teacher? Of course you're qualified for 95k after 5 years. You're in a public sector union. Another bunch of lazy whining bastards that need to have their legs cut off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotty Posted June 25, 2011 Author Report Share Posted June 25, 2011 I'm saying the content of most of their speeches. The fact is, most Canadians are on the side of the government on this one. I think that the NDP picked the wrong battle. The NDP didn't pick this for strategic reasons. The NDP has always supported labour. It would be unthinkable for them to not oppose a sudden, heavy handed back-to-work demand by the government brought out because Canada Post locked out its workers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotty Posted June 25, 2011 Author Report Share Posted June 25, 2011 It would be nice if the NDP stood up and fought for those who earn little at their unionized jobs in the private sector i.e. around $25,000 a year, and are getting pay cuts. But instead they fight for pay increases for people who work in jobs such as this: Department Name: Department of XXXX Location: Someplace in Canada Classification: This or That Salary: $39,395 to $47,114 Applied to by yours truly, and have applied to thousands of similar positions in the last 18 years. I have yet to be interviewed. Its a lottery. It can be, but isn't every job in demand like that? If you have a job which is in demand and a thousand people apply, well, what are your odds? The above looks like a clerk job. If it's not in a city which has a large government base then they probably only need 1 or 2 people. But what exactly is your complaint? Should the NDP ignore workers once they have passed a certain threshold of income? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.