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Osama Bin Laden is Dead


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Guest American Woman

There's a difference between helping a friend and respecting the beliefs of a vile terrorist though.

The beliefs aren't just that of a vile terrorist, there are millions of Muslims worldwide who have those beliefs. As I already pointed out, the respect was for Islam.

But in any case, it certainly wouldn't have been in Canada's interest to tell the U.S. to piss off.

Of course it wouldn't have been, but would you say Canada did it "purely for Canadian interests?" I hardly think so.

But the chicken and the egg analogy is absolutely correct.

It has nothing to do with what you said, that the U.S. was acting "purely for their interests" by respecting Islamic traditions. If that's your take on everything everyone does, on everything every country does, including Canada, I'll accept it but will hold you to it regarding other matters, regarding other countries, regarding Canada. Otherwise it's just as I said, some people can't ever give the U.S. credit for anything.

Edited by American Woman
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If that's your take on everything everyone does, on everything every country does, including Canada, I'll accept it but will hold you to it regarding other matters, regarding other countries, regarding Canada. Otherwise it's just as I said, some people can't ever give the U.S. credit for anything.

I believe we have opposing outlooks on human nature. What think you of free will versus determinism?

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Governments want their people to believe in them but how can they when the story that was first put out about OBL, is now a lie. The US government is changing its story first put out and now we have OBL not armed, his wife step in front to protect OBL and shot was shot in the long. Wouldn't it have been smart to capture OBL alive for information? These SEALS I've heard, are the best the US has to offer and they train for months, so is the US now saying they couldn't take him alive. I would really like to talk to his wife. Some people believe OBL has been dead for years and that the US has put him on ice to use when needed. Another thing about this, is the US felt it had the right to go into Pakistan without permission form its government. I don't care what their reasons where, no government has the right to do that but as always, the US doesn't respect other countries. http://ca.news.yahoo.com/u-says-bin-laden-unarmed-killed-025309674.html

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Governments want their people to believe in them but how can they when the story that was first put out about OBL, is now a lie. The US government is changing its story first put out and now we have OBL not armed, his wife step in front to protect OBL and shot was shot in the long. Wouldn't it have been smart to capture OBL alive for information?

No, it wouldn't have been smart. The mission was to find and kill Osama Bin Laden, not capture and begin a long interrogation, trial, media circus. Documents, optical media and storage devices were collected from the compound for analysis.

These SEALS I've heard, are the best the US has to offer and they train for months, so is the US now saying they couldn't take him alive. I would really like to talk to his wife. Some people believe OBL has been dead for years and that the US has put him on ice to use when needed.

Call her up in Pakistan and ask her why her husband was on America's hit list. SEAL Team Six and Delta Force can kill or capture, and the mission was to kill. Noncombatants in the compound were subdued and bound with zip ties. Well done (Bravo Zulu).

Another thing about this, is the US felt it had the right to go into Pakistan without permission form its government. I don't care what their reasons where, no government has the right to do that but as always, the US doesn't respect other countries.

The US has the capability and temerity to do this. Pakistan had no problem taking $20 billion in USA aid to help solve their "little problem" in the territories.

Edited by bush_cheney2004
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Guest American Woman

Governments want their people to believe in them but how can they when the story that was first put out about OBL, is now a lie. The US government is changing its story first put out and now we have OBL not armed, his wife step in front to protect OBL and shot was shot in the long.

There's a big difference between a lie and incorrect information. In order for the initial information to have been a lie, you would have to know/prove that the government purposely put the information out there, knowing that it was wrong. It seems it took a little time to get all the facts straight, but the government was forthcoming. If they wanted to lie about it, they would have never come back and said he wasn't armed.

Wouldn't it have been smart to capture OBL alive for information?

Do you honestly think bin Laden would have given them any information? Seriously. There's no way he would have given them even the tiniest bit of information.

These SEALS I've heard, are the best the US has to offer and they train for months, so is the US now saying they couldn't take him alive.

Are they saying they couldn't, or that they didn't? Two different things. But if they are saying they couldn't, then I would have to give their opinion more credence than mine. I wasn't there. I don't know what went down or what the mood was. I do get the impression that they didn't want to take the chance of losing him in the commotion.

I would really like to talk to his wife.

Why?

Some people believe OBL has been dead for years and that the US has put him on ice to use when needed.

Some people believe a lot of crazy things. That doesn't give any credence to their beliefs. I can't imagine that Bush had OBL but let his presidency pass without passing along that information. Can you? And "when needed??" How is the world was that revelation "needed" right now?

Another thing about this, is the US felt it had the right to go into Pakistan without permission form its government. I don't care what their reasons where, no government has the right to do that but as always, the US doesn't respect other countries. http://ca.news.yahoo.com/u-says-bin-laden-unarmed-killed-025309674.html

Was Pakistan respecting the U.S.? Good thing the U.S. did go in without sharing the knowledge with Pakistan, or bin Laden would very likely still be at large. But "as always," eh? Got'cha. <_<

Edited by American Woman
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I think that you are both over-simplifying. If the countries in which Osama took refuge were ready for independence and were not failed states there would be no need for Western involvement. The face is that the West's safety and prosperity depends upon some military presence in "foreign lands".

Yep, one day we were out exploring at happened to come across these failed states and by god, we had to do something about it! :rolleyes:

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Gestapo-like would be taking the six year old from her bed at night and putting a bullet in her head.
The Palestinians did that with a three month old and a three year old recently. To the approval of some on this board.
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Guest American Woman

The Palestinians did that with a three month old and a three year old recently. To the approval of some on this board.

No one "approved" of it, jbg. No one.

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There has been criticism in MSM, you just haven't noticed it. President Obama will be tolerated just like any other president, and come election time, Americans will get to double down or make a change. As for being a Bush clone, not quite, but then again Mr. Bush was the American president too. Read the job description.

What I find disturbing is that there is no real "left" in American politics or mainstream broadcasting. Even public radio and TV is hardly on the left since the big ones like PBS, NPR and PRI, are financed primarily by large corporate trust funds who provide the boundaries for how they cover news and opinion. Real leftwing media in the U.S. is relegated to the internet and the obscure public broadcasters like Pacifica and Grit TV, which are hard to find unless you go out of your way and search for them....this was a big part of the argument for low-power FM radio, which Republicans are also promising to kill off completely.

What Fox and rightwing radio present as their leftist opposition is a joke! The Democratic Party and the Obama Administration are trying to compete for the same corporate donations as the Republicans!

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What I find disturbing is that there is no real "left" in American politics or mainstream broadcasting. Even public radio and TV is hardly on the left since the big ones like PBS, NPR and PRI, are financed primarily by large corporate trust funds who provide the boundaries for how they cover news and opinion. Real leftwing media in the U.S. is relegated to the internet....

This steps into oxymoron territory, as "mainstream broadcasting" implies some level of commercial success. Air America radio struggled to stay viable with sponsorship from 2002 to 2010 in direct response to the success of conservative talk radio formats and the 2000 presidential election, but ultimately failed in the marketplace. There is no shortage of "left wing" print media to the extent that it still exists in the age of alternate media choices. The Utne Reader is still published after 25 years.

and the obscure public broadcasters like Pacifica and Grit TV, which are hard to find unless you go out of your way and search for them....this was a big part of the argument for low-power FM radio, which Republicans are also promising to kill off completely.

Public broadcasting does not necessarily equate to a "leftist" agenda. College and university radio stations are more concerned with trendy topics and student issues, which may or may not align with the left. Until recently, PBS had been able to stave off criticism until the cover got blown off.

What Fox and rightwing radio present as their leftist opposition is a joke! The Democratic Party and the Obama Administration are trying to compete for the same corporate donations as the Republicans!

The joke is any expectation otherwise. Obviously Fox has been very successful in attracting and keeping audience share. The left has been unable to compete where it counts in that business.....at the bottom line.

Edited by bush_cheney2004
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Call her up in Pakistan and ask her why her husband was on America's hit list. SEAL Team Six and Delta Force can kill or capture, and the mission was to kill. Noncombatants in the compound were subdued and bound with zip ties. Well done (Bravo Zulu).

It was a picture perfect operation, from what I can tell. Surgical precision, timing down the minute. I'm sure these ops go on more than we'll ever know, but every once in while you get to see how guys like the SEALs really operate, and man oh man, all I can say is I'm glad I'm not on their shitlist.

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It was a picture perfect operation, from what I can tell.

Picture perfect wouldn't have crashed a helicopter.

Speaking of picture perfect, the Americans have said they will not release any pictures of the dead Obama.

Thomas Mulcair, a fellow you might have heard of lately, has told the CBC that's because there aren't any such pictures. I'm gathering he disbelieves the American story, which would fit in well with his fellow deputy leader Libby Davis, who is a 911 truther.

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But logging into facebook, I was forced to look at what appears to be the real picture. It sure ain't the fake one that's been going around, and with Reuters releasing photos of the other dead guys today, I'm guessing it's the real thing.

(Or not. Could have been a dead guy that looked like him. It's hard to recognize someone after they've been shot in the face.)

Edited by BubberMiley
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Picture perfect wouldn't have crashed a helicopter.

No plan survives on the battle field. It shows that these special forces guys are adept at both planning and lightning fast reassessment.

Speaking of picture perfect, the Americans have said they will not release any pictures of the dead Obama.

I disagree with the decision, but see the merits of it. At some point, somehow, the real pics will be leaked.

Thomas Mulcair, a fellow you might have heard of lately, has told the CBC that's because there aren't any such pictures. I'm gathering he disbelieves the American story, which would fit in well with his fellow deputy leader Libby Davis, who is a 911 truther.

I imagine the NDP has more than its share of those types. Layton is going to have fun keeping that cabal in line.

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Guest American Woman

These SEALS I've heard, are the best the US has to offer and they train for months, so is the US now saying they couldn't take him alive.

Just read that the SEALS were acting on the assumption that bin Laden would be wearing a suicide vest, so if he were clothed, orders were to kill him. Since he was found in his nightclothes, his fate was sealed. Makes sense. They weren't going to risk their own lives at this stage of the operation; he very well could have been wearing a suicide vest and taken them with him.

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....Since he was found in his nightclothes, his fate was sealed.....

He he....great pun. The mission was to find and kill Bin Laden....imperative after previous failures. Egress to the Vinson with a body, not a prisoner. Pakistani military could have intercepted any time.

Edited by bush_cheney2004
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Just read that the SEALS were acting on the assumption that bin Laden would be wearing a suicide vest, so if he were clothed, orders were to kill him. Since he was found in his nightclothes, his fate was sealed. Makes sense. They weren't going to risk their own lives at this stage of the operation; he very well could have been wearing a suicide vest and taken them with him.

Sound like a crock to me. The guy had been hiding in plain sight for God knows how long: did they figure he'd spend day and night with a few pounds of C4 under his Fruit of the Looms?

Now, I have little doubt they found and killed the guy, but this smacks of post facto response to the question of if this guy was such a great terror mastermind, why did they splatter that mind all over the wall?

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...Now, I have little doubt they found and killed the guy, but this smacks of post facto response to the question of if this guy was such a great terror mastermind, why did they splatter that mind all over the wall?

Because they wanted to....it's not complicated. Why does Mossad do the same thing?

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