NDP to form offical opposition.

[Mr.Canada]

Imagine it: Granola Jack Layton and Olivia Chow packing up their bags and moving to Stornoway — the multimillion-dollar residence in Ottawa's upscale Rockcliffe Park reserved for the leader of Canada's official Opposition.

I look forward to it. Jack Layton has worked hard and deserves to be rewarded for his efforts. Canada is waking up today realizing that the Liberal Party is a dead urban only riding while the NDP speaks for Canadians urban and rural. While I don't agree with all of NDP politics I can at least take solace in the fact that Jack Layton at least attempts to reach out to rural Canadians. Ignatieff and his Liberals are out of touch with rural Canada completely.

"Two weeks ago, the Liberals would have laughed at the suggestion that such a thing was possible," former Liberal strategist Warren Kinsella said of the idea that the NDP could become the official Opposition.

"As of (Thursday) morning, they're not laughing anymore."Source

The Liberals are realizing now that they stand to lose even more seats then they did with Dion. Ignatieff is far less popular then Dion was and Dion was widely hated. The Liberals will be falling even further from grace destroying any notion that they are Canada's "natural governing party".

Good for you Jack, you and the NDP deserve it!

[Michael Hardner]

I look forward to it. Jack Layton has worked hard and deserves to be rewarded for his efforts. Canada is waking up today realizing that the Liberal Party is a dead urban only riding while the NDP speaks for Canadians urban and rural. While I don't agree with all of NDP politics I can at least take solace in the fact that Jack Layton at least attempts to reach out to rural Canadians. Ignatieff and his Liberals are out of touch with rural Canada completely.

The Liberals are realizing now that they stand to lose even more seats then they did with Dion. Ignatieff is far less popular then Dion was and Dion was widely hated. The Liberals will be falling even further from grace destroying any notion that they are Canada's "natural governing party".

Good for you Jack, you and the NDP deserve it!

Very gracious of you, Mr. Canada. Of course, it can't hurt the Conservatives either to have an opposition that is so... uh... opposed.

[ToadBrother]

Very gracious of you, Mr. Canada. Of course, it can't hurt the Conservatives either to have an opposition that is so... uh... opposed.

I guess that depends. If the Tories have a majority, it's just some new faces leading the charge. If they have a minority, well, that's a whole other kettle of fish...

[PIK]

I look forward to it. Jack Layton has worked hard and deserves to be rewarded for his efforts. Canada is waking up today realizing that the Liberal Party is a dead urban only riding while the NDP speaks for Canadians urban and rural. While I don't agree with all of NDP politics I can at least take solace in the fact that Jack Layton at least attempts to reach out to rural Canadians. Ignatieff and his Liberals are out of touch with rural Canada completely.

The Liberals are realizing now that they stand to lose even more seats then they did with Dion. Ignatieff is far less popular then Dion was and Dion was widely hated. The Liberals will be falling even further from grace destroying any notion that they are Canada's "natural governing party".

Good for you Jack, you and the NDP deserve it!

Yes jack has performed well, he deserves to get the opposition seat, the libs still need another 5 yeasr to get things clean out as in the old chretien and martin people, and hopefully bob rae will get tired of waiting and go home.

[betsy]

Way to go, Jack! That should show em who are arrogant enough to say it to your face on national tv that you don't count at all.

Better this way for NDP to be the official opposition. Clear distinction between the left and the right!

Edited April 23, 2011 by betsy

[kimmy]

Better this way for NDP to be the official opposition. Clear distinction between the left and the right!

I find the proposition pretty disappointing, personally. Depressing is probably a better word. I don't want a clear distinction between the right and left. I want a reasonable balance between the two.

-k

[capricorn]

Yes jack has performed well, he deserves to get the opposition seat, the libs still need another 5 yeasr to get things clean out as in the old chretien and martin people, and hopefully bob rae will get tired of waiting and go home.

Pik, as much as I disagree with Bob Rae's politics, he is a very knowledgeable guy. He has headed important tasks, i.e. his work on Air India, a Canadian task force on Afghanistan and a study on education for the Ontario government. Whenever he leaves politics I could see Rae taking on special tasks for the government in the future.

[Molly]

I find the proposition pretty disappointing, personally. Depressing is probably a better word. I don't want a clear distinction between the right and left. I want a reasonable balance between the two.

-k

Yuppers. Me too.

[gordiecanuk]

I find the proposition pretty disappointing, personally. Depressing is probably a better word. I don't want a clear distinction between the right and left. I want a reasonable balance between the two.

-k

With Harper representing the right the words reasonable and balance are no longer part of the political lexicon.

[punked]

NDP has a rally 1000 strong today in the heart of Bloc country. Taking the fight right into

Duceppe's ridding. Boy when they take a chance they take big ones. This is just adding the Momentum.

http://www.google.com/hostednews/canadianpress/article/ALeqM5gd9g52On_tWgwGKxlYWypS4nuv_A?docId=6646286

In other new Iggy says the NDP numbers across the country aren't real. He must be one of those people who doesn't believe in Math or Science.

[Smallc]

And this won't hurt them either. NDP numbers purely science fiction, says Ignatieff. Talk about arrogance.

http://www.montrealgazette.com/news/decision-canada/numbers+purely+science+fiction+says+Ignatieff/4665019/story.html

[gordiecanuk]

In other new Iggy says the NDP numbers across the country aren't real. He must be one of those people who doesn't believe in Math or Science.

You're confusing Iggy with Stockwell Day and other prominent Conservatives.

[punked]

You're confusing Iggy with Stockwell Day and other prominent Conservatives.

Nope he says the Numbers are "science fiction" meaning Iggy doesn't understand or believe in the science of Statistics or polling. He just doesn't believe in it.

[kimmy]

Nope he says the Numbers are "science fiction" meaning Iggy doesn't understand or believe in the science of Statistics or polling. He just doesn't believe in it.

I'm sure he believes the polls say what they say.

He probably means that he thinks those numbers will turn out to be fiction in terms of how people actually vote on May 2.

He (and a lot of Liberals) probably sincerely believe that when it comes down to it, voters will decide the NDP aren't "real" and will oppose Harper by electing Liberal MPs.

Progressive Conservatives once held a similar conceit in regard to Reform.

-k

[punked]

I'm sure he believes the polls say what they say.

He probably means that he thinks those numbers will turn out to be fiction in terms of how people actually vote on May 2.

He (and a lot of Liberals) probably sincerely believe that when it comes down to it, voters will decide the NDP aren't "real" and will oppose Harper by electing Liberal MPs.

Progressive Conservatives once held a similar conceit in regard to Reform.

-k

Maybe he should clarify what he means then. Right now the way I take it is that Iggy doesn't believe in Science and lives in his own little bubble.

[August1991]

I find the proposition pretty disappointing, personally. Depressing is probably a better word. I don't want a clear distinction between the right and left. I want a reasonable balance between the two.

That may sound all civilized, Kimmy. And in a sense, I agree with you.

But this is the attitude Harper and the Conservatives must face:

With Harper representing the right the words reasonable and balance are no longer part of the political lexicon.

---

IME, the Right accepts the Left's right to make its opinions known. We live with it. The Left OTOH quickly shuts down debate by describing the Right as liars, unreasonable, unbalanced, ignorant, neanderthals.

I have been on different sides of different debates (and I say that as someone who has lived through two referendums in Quebec) but I have to say that the most difficult minority is to be a single right-wing person among a group of left wing people. A single leftist among a group of rightists and the worst thing that will happen is that you'll suffer snide remarks and jeers. If you are right wing among a group of leftists, you will be accused of racism, sexism, homophobia and ultimately you will be shunned.

In short, the stark nature of debate in Canada today is caused by the Left. The Left does not tolerate the Right or a right wing government. In a sense, the Left is saying that we can only have peace if the Left is in control.

[gordiecanuk]

That may sound all civilized, Kimmy. And in a sense, I agree with you.

But this is the attitude Harper and the Conservatives must face:

---

IME, the Right accepts the Left's right to make its opinions known. We live with it. The Left OTOH quickly shuts down debate by describing the Right as liars, unreasonable, unbalanced, ignorant, neanderthals.

I have been on different sides of different debates (and I say that as someone who has lived through two referendums in Quebec) but I have to say that the most difficult minority is to be a single right-wing person among a group of left wing people. A single leftist among a group of rightists and the worst thing that will happen is that you'll suffer snide remarks and jeers. If you are right wing among a group of leftists, you will be accused of racism, sexism, homophobia and ultimately you will be shunned.

In short, the stark nature of debate in Canada today is caused by the Left. The Left does not tolerate the Right or a right wing government. In a sense, the Left is saying that we can only have peace if the Left is in control.

I don't know about that...it was after all a supposedly left wing party that embraced fiscal conservatism and finally brought this country's finances back into balance and started paying off the national debt.

Edited April 23, 2011 by gordiecanuk

[bloodyminded]

That may sound all civilized, Kimmy. And in a sense, I agree with you.

But this is the attitude Harper and the Conservatives must face:

---

IME, the Right accepts the Left's right to make its opinions known. We live with it. The Left OTOH quickly shuts down debate by describing the Right as liars, unreasonable, unbalanced, ignorant, neanderthals.

I have been on different sides of different debates (and I say that as someone who has lived through two referendums in Quebec) but I have to say that the most difficult minority is to be a single right-wing person among a group of left wing people. A single leftist among a group of rightists and the worst thing that will happen is that you'll suffer snide remarks and jeers. If you are right wing among a group of leftists, you will be accused of racism, sexism, homophobia and ultimately you will be shunned.

In short, the stark nature of debate in Canada today is caused by the Left. The Left does not tolerate the Right or a right wing government. In a sense, the Left is saying that we can only have peace if the Left is in control.

This is nonsense. On this very board, the continual whining about "the left! The left!" outdoes it's opposite by a pretty large degree.

And your personal anecdotes aren't necessarily helpful, since my own don't bear out your conclusion at all.

In short, the stark nature of debate in Canada today is caused by the Left.

See, this is what I'm talking about. This is preposterous. Political debate, notably in democracies, has always been thus, and it far predates any contemporary notion of "the Left."

[betsy]

And this won't hurt them either. NDP numbers purely science fiction, says Ignatieff. Talk about arrogance.

No kidding! When he belittled Jack at the debate - it was a downright personal punch and you could see in Jack's face that he got offended or hurt....but Jack is head-and-shoulder above Ignatieff in my view, for keeping his temper in check!

I couldn't forget that moment. I wonder if others took notice too.

[Topaz]

You can say it another way, that the NDP has never been a Federal governing government and if history repeat itself, they won't get that majority but who really knows anything is possible, if the reform party can be elected to Ottawa, the NDP can too, it all depends on the mood of the voter. If Jack leads in Quebec, has the votes in BC, he could get that minority and put the Tories in #2.

[August1991]

This is nonsense. On this very board, the continual whining about "the left! The left!" outdoes it's opposite by a pretty large degree.

I gave an example above in this very thread where the Left tends to shut down debate by declaring than an opponent is unbalanced or unreasonable.

In general, this means playing the man not the ball. And this may explain why the Left is often ineffective in political debates.

Political debate, notably in democracies, has always been thus, and it far predates any contemporary notion of "the Left."

So why is everyone decrying how Harper is a liar and how teh Conservatives have sunk to a new low with their various attack ads?

The ostensible reason for this election is that the opposition parties accused the government of being in contempt of parliament.

[Handsome Rob]

NDP has a rally 1000 strong today in the heart of Bloc country. Taking the fight right into

Duceppe's ridding. Boy when they take a chance they take big ones. This is just adding the Momentum.

http://www.google.com/hostednews/canadianpress/article/ALeqM5gd9g52On_tWgwGKxlYWypS4nuv_A?docId=6646286

In other new Iggy says the NDP numbers across the country aren't real. He must be one of those people who doesn't believe in Math or Science.

I'm not buying it either.

If we go off the 2008 results, to get 11 more seats in an absolute best case scenario:

The Conservatives need 8,117 more votes.

The Liberals need 6,176 more votes.

The NDP needs 29,566 more votes.

I'm thinking the NDP will take a couple from the Bloc, and a couple from the Liberals, the Tory's maybe 1 or 2 from the Liberals, and the rest more or less the same.

[Bryan]

the Right accepts the Left's right to make its opinions known. We live with it. The Left OTOH quickly shuts down debate by describing the Right as liars, unreasonable, unbalanced, ignorant, neanderthals.

This forum is clear evidence of this.

It's the same everywhere. Right wingers may well dismiss left-wing opinion, but the hatred, the vitriol, and the absolute refusal to even have a discussion is overwhelmingly the tactic of the left in this country.

The left's very definition of middle ground, is "accept my opinion". Harper as Prime Minister has been the epitome of a centrist. He's so middle ground that it's boring. Yet, simply because he's not an extreme left-winger, he gets pegged as a right-wing extremist.

[Smallc]

You have got to be joking. The NDP (the left) is usually far more willing to make a deal than any other party.

[Bryan]

You have got to be joking. The NDP (the left) is usually far more willing to make a deal than any other party.

You mean they are the most willing to extort the government to get their way.