RNG Posted April 25, 2011 Report Posted April 25, 2011 But isn’t stimulus spending a tenant of Keynesian economics? Bush brought it in, both sides voted for it, and Obama contiuned with. Coupled with both parties taste for pork and entitlement spending, they're lucky they have the world's largest economy, or they'd be Greece. Stimulus spending is a tenant of Keynesian economics. But again, I reference my post above. That is only half of Keynesian economics. Everyone forgets the pay-back half. Quote The government can't give anything to anyone without having first taken it from someone else.
Evening Star Posted April 25, 2011 Report Posted April 25, 2011 (edited) Here are couple examples of Harper hatefests that are in the MSM: http://www.amazon.ca/Harperland-Politics-Control-Lawrence-Martin/dp/067006517X/ref=cm_cr_pr_product_top http://www.amazon.ca/Armageddon-Factor-Christian-Nationalism-Canada/dp/0307356469/ref=pd_sim_b_2 I haven't read those books, admittedly. Seriously, does no one remember how the press treated Bob Rae when he was premier, back when Conrad Black still dominated the media? Some discussion of it here: http://logospathosethos.com/articles/2010/10/24/the-ndp-legacy-in-ontario-20-years-later.html I could go on listing things like this: http://fullcomment.nationalpost.com/2011/03/23/david-frum-the-disastrous-legacy-of-pierre-trudeau/ or even MLW posts like the one where someone blamed the Liberal Party for turning Canadians into wimps, as evidenced by the private-sector CBSC's ruling on "Money for Nothing" and an Alabama publisher's posthumous censorship of the 'n-word' in Huckleberry Finn... but it's unlikely I'd sway anyone who thinks the media is biased against the right, especially if people are going to keep listing anecdotal examples or claiming that Free Dominion is more civil than Rabble. On the whole, I honestly think the Canadian media is quite balanced and fair. I even enjoy reading people like Frum or Kheiriddin. Edited April 25, 2011 by Evening Star Quote
bloodyminded Posted April 25, 2011 Report Posted April 25, 2011 The guy saying everyone should vote for Jack Layton?? No, the guy saying everyone not voting for Harper, "our father," as he calls him, should vote for Layton. Mr. Canada is far, far to the Right of, oh, say, you for example. Quote As scarce as truth is, the supply has always been in excess of the demand. --Josh Billings
bloodyminded Posted April 25, 2011 Report Posted April 25, 2011 but it's unlikely I'd sway anyone who thinks the media is biased against the right, especially if people are going to keep listing anecdotal examples or claiming that Free Dominion is more civil than Rabble. No, I've tried, literally a dozen times or more to have just this debate, by way of an attempted institutional analysis of media bias. They flatly refuse to go there. I'd use the Chomsky/Herman model as a guide; they could use any they wished, or compose their own. But nope. Won't happen. They prefer anecdotal assertions and occasional selective, unrelated examples as their "methodology." The challenge still stands. But no takers. Quote As scarce as truth is, the supply has always been in excess of the demand. --Josh Billings
RNG Posted April 25, 2011 Report Posted April 25, 2011 Where on a political bias scale would you people (dang, all the other forums I visit are male dominated. nice to see lots of ladies here but using "people" rather than "guys?") rate Don Martin? Quote The government can't give anything to anyone without having first taken it from someone else.
Mr.Canada Posted April 25, 2011 Author Report Posted April 25, 2011 No, the guy saying everyone not voting for Harper, "our father," as he calls him, should vote for Layton. Mr. Canada is far, far to the Right of, oh, say, you for example. I am a true conservative. Both fiscally and socially conservative. One must be both to call them conservative. Anything else is just a socialist wearing a blue shirt. Quote "You are scum for insinuating that isn't the case you snake." -William Ashley Canadian Immigration Reform Blog
nittanylionstorm07 Posted April 25, 2011 Report Posted April 25, 2011 I am a true conservative. Both fiscally and socially conservative. One must be both to call them conservative. Anything else is just a socialist wearing a blue shirt. Conservatives like you are the reason why we aren't technologically more advanced by 1000 years. Quote
RNG Posted April 25, 2011 Report Posted April 25, 2011 I am a true conservative. Both fiscally and socially conservative. One must be both to call them conservative. Anything else is just a socialist wearing a blue shirt. I am fiscally conservative, but socially moderate, I guess. So please label me. Quote The government can't give anything to anyone without having first taken it from someone else.
nittanylionstorm07 Posted April 25, 2011 Report Posted April 25, 2011 I am fiscally conservative, but socially moderate, I guess. So please label me. Clearly you are liberal socialist scum. Quote
punked Posted April 25, 2011 Report Posted April 25, 2011 I am fiscally conservative, but socially moderate, I guess. So please label me. New Democrat Quote
RNG Posted April 25, 2011 Report Posted April 25, 2011 New Democrat What part of fiscally conservative don't you understand. If I was dictator, the first thing I would do is eliminate all business taxes. Quote The government can't give anything to anyone without having first taken it from someone else.
punked Posted April 25, 2011 Report Posted April 25, 2011 What part of fiscally conservative don't you understand. If I was dictator, the first thing I would do is eliminate all business taxes. Fiscally conservative does not mean "hates taxes". I find it hilarious that is what you think that means. Quote
RNG Posted April 25, 2011 Report Posted April 25, 2011 Fiscally conservative does not mean "hates taxes". I find it hilarious that is what you think that means. I don't hate taxes. Taxes are needed for policing, the military, roads and a bunch of other things. But I am very sure your feeling on who and how to tax, and how to spend and mine are very different. Quote The government can't give anything to anyone without having first taken it from someone else.
punked Posted April 25, 2011 Report Posted April 25, 2011 I don't hate taxes. Taxes are needed for policing, the military, roads and a bunch of other things. But I am very sure your feeling on who and how to tax, and how to spend and mine are very different. Try me. Quote
RNG Posted April 25, 2011 Report Posted April 25, 2011 (edited) Try me. OK. I think taxing companies is silly. They are there to make a profit. Tax them and they just raise their prices so you and I pay. Don't tax them and they have more money to invest in expanding, which leads to more jobs and more GDP for the country and all kinds of other good things. Plus, the more jobs means more taxpayers and other good things. And I am against rewarding failure. I'm not in favor of shutting down all welfare, but dag-nabit, we need to be way more judicious in how we throw money around. Yes, there are cases of real need, and real misfortune, but there are also lots of cases of lazy-assed buggers and buggerettes just playing the system. And with all due respect to my maritime friends, come on - there are no jobs there. Don't spend your life on the dole, paid for by me and punked. Move to where there are jobs. EI isn't early retirement. I could go on quite a bit more but my blood pressure is rising. Edited April 25, 2011 by RNG Quote The government can't give anything to anyone without having first taken it from someone else.
punked Posted April 25, 2011 Report Posted April 25, 2011 OK. I think taxing companies is silly. They are there to make a profit. Tax them and they just raise their prices so you and I pay. Don't tax them and they have more money to invest in expanding, which leads to more jobs and more GDP for the country and all kinds of other good things. Plus, the more jobs means more taxpayers and other good things. I'm going to stop you right there because no company says "If people will pay 20 dollars now for something then if the government cuts my taxes I will only make them pay 19 dollars for it." Sorry it doesn't happen. Prices are set by a number of market forces and with many companies and products the taxes that company will pay is a very very very small part of that. Quote
Guest Derek L Posted April 25, 2011 Report Posted April 25, 2011 Yes but so is Regulation. Problem is during the good times everyone is and Austrian "Get rid of regulation, don't help anyone out, less government, FREEEEMARRRRKKEETTTSSS!!!!" but during the bad times everyone is a Keynesian "More spending, keep people working, stimulate the market." This leads to the worst of the worse. Both Austrian and Keynesian schools have their problems. These problems are amplified 10 fold when you us the half the school with the problems. Austrian during Booms Keynesian during Busts. The Austrian/Chicago schools are not opposed to some regulation. What brought about alot of the deregulation that can be attributed to the recent finacial meltdown, were the Keynesian economic advisors to Clinton in the 90s (Remember the Dot.coms?), and some of the same people later advised Bush and now Obama. I'd also put alot of the blame for the housing bubble on the Carter administraion for bringing in the Community Reinvestment Act..... Quote
punked Posted April 25, 2011 Report Posted April 25, 2011 The Austrian/Chicago schools are not opposed to some regulation. What brought about alot of the deregulation that can be attributed to the recent finacial meltdown, were the Keynesian economic advisors to Clinton in the 90s (Remember the Dot.coms?), and some of the same people later advised Bush and now Obama. I'd also put alot of the blame for the housing bubble on the Carter administraion for bringing in the Community Reinvestment Act..... Again Austrian in the good times Keynesian in the bad just doesn't work. Quote
cybercoma Posted April 25, 2011 Report Posted April 25, 2011 Tax them and they just raise their prices so you and I pay. Price elasticity of demand and tax incidence. Look them up because what you said is only true sometimes. Quote
Guest Derek L Posted April 25, 2011 Report Posted April 25, 2011 Again Austrian in the good times Keynesian in the bad just doesn't work. I agree, it should be Austrian all times. Quote
punked Posted April 25, 2011 Report Posted April 25, 2011 (edited) I agree, it should be Austrian all times. Sure we can go that rout. My point is this half and half thing we do is terrible. Pick one at least. Edited April 25, 2011 by punked Quote
blueblood Posted April 25, 2011 Report Posted April 25, 2011 I am a true conservative. Both fiscally and socially conservative. One must be both to call them conservative. Anything else is just a socialist wearing a blue shirt. All right I call bs. Let's resume our debate on walmart operating in canada shall we. Who's the blue shirt socialist now? Quote "Stop the Madness!!!" - Kevin O'Leary "Money is the ultimate scorecard of life!". - Kevin O'Leary Economic Left/Right: 4.00 Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -0.77
Guest Derek L Posted April 25, 2011 Report Posted April 25, 2011 Sure we can go that rout. My point is this half and half thing we do is terrible. Pick one at least. I would agree with you 100% (we found something LOL) that this half ass approach doesn't work. I prefer the Chicago model for the reason I've outlined. I feel Friedman was right on his apporach that government should play only a very limited hand in the economy. I will conceide (like Friedman) that government does have a small role, namely enforcing laws/contracts and protecting the people from monopolies, government ones especially though. Quote
Guest Derek L Posted April 25, 2011 Report Posted April 25, 2011 I am a true conservative. Both fiscally and socially conservative. One must be both to call them conservative. Anything else is just a socialist wearing a blue shirt. In my opinion, if the Conservative Party of Canada was a business, and I was it's CEO, I wouldn't want someone like you representing the brand at trade shows.... Quote
Evening Star Posted April 25, 2011 Report Posted April 25, 2011 Sure we can go that rout. My point is this half and half thing we do is terrible. Pick one at least. Seriously, punked? You'd prefer all-out Friedmanism to what we have now? Quote
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