Raising the US debt ceiling

[Shady]

He does not know the difference between right and wrong - but he is a master political pandering fool.

It must be nice to post in Internet forums all day while collecting a welfare cheque. It's us fools that provide for your existence.

[Oleg Bach]

It must be nice to post in Internet forums all day while collecting a welfare cheque. It's us fools that provide for your existence.

I paid into the system all my life - I delt with a corrupt and harsh taxing system that persecuted me in the most mindless way - as for that stupid cheque - think of it as a tiny subistance pension - I am almost 61 years old and have done my part in the contribution to the state and my fellow man...I raised by four children - spent 27 year with a partner that was inapproriate...did my duty.

Further more once I pay my share of the rent...There is no money to speak of...I struggle every day using all my brain power and good reputaion to ensure that I eat at least a meal per day - I council those in distress - encouage the hopeless...and submurge myself in a defective system and give it full study...

You are not a fool - you elect fools who waste your tax dollars with cruel and unusual punishment they call a safety net - as for my existance - take away the 580 bucks and I will still "exist" - I collect partly out of sheer spite.

So easy for you to point a finger at who you consider the weakest and most marginalized - but you in the most cowardly manner do not point a finger at those that have duped you and made you the fool you claim to be.

[Oleg Bach]

Oh and while I am smacking you about - I failed to mention that the welfare department attempted to push me towards an arts grant..but failed because they are inept - so I do not sit on the net all day - I paint...and create - I do some recording on occassion and over see young musical writers who are on the cutting edge of the buisness - who will provide wonderful film scores for you to listen and enjoy...I did not want this position but I was driven too it.....If you think I am sort of white trash old man strung out on oxycoden...I am not...

.BUT your welfare system and the Ontario Disablity Support Program - insist that as many of it's "clients" as possible consume as much pharma product as possible - hoping to eliminate the weaker ones through slow poisoning - and to keep phama shares valuable by using the stronger governmental addicts to ensure a consistant flow of revenue that goes to big buisness ------------i SUGGEST...that the critic I am speaking too buy as many shares in big pharma as possible and you will get a return on your tax dollar........It's kind of like a slick money laundering buisness.

[eyeball]

It is true that there are left wing Libertarians, libertarian "socialists" as it were. Another one on this forum is Eyeball.

The thing I don't get about left-wing libertarianism is how they wish to achieve "social justice" and economic equality, correct me if I am wrong, but I believe these are a couple of it's foremost concepts.

I was called a rational anarchist once for proposing we let social justice occur naturally through sousveillance. Basically turning the Telescreens around and monitoring the government so that it is utterly unable to serve any one particular interest without everyone knowing about it, in realtime. Completely turn the top/down paradigm on its head. Let the people get on the government's back for a change.

Libertarianism is about liberty, freedom and an absence of the initiation of the use of force in society. Socialism is about an equitible distribution of wealth which I do not think will occur, especially in times of scarcity, without initiating the use of force and must include a bureaucracy to handle the equitible distribution of wealth and social justice.

I'm far more interested in the equitable distribution of power, taking away the opportunity for government to operate in secrecy should help achieve that.

I find it incongruous and see an incongruity in eyeballs posts when he wants government to do something particular, but on other issues he wants government to get out of the way.

You'd have to give me a specific example to comment on. If you're trying to pin me down on some issue that we're stuck dealing with under our present system then like anyone else, even you, I probably want the government to do all sorts of things. I mean lets face it, it's the one with the power to make stuff happen, like ending prohibition for example, not us.

I want more localized governments so their proximity to the people and regions they govern make them more accessible and accountable to them. As for corporations, the charters that govern and breathe life into them should be drawn up by the people in the regions they operate in. I subscribe to the basic tenets of bioregionalism.

I'm pretty certain I'm going to have to wait until the inherently unsustainable system we have collapses under the weight of it's own crap, as it most certainly will. From where I'm sitting the wheezy old thing looks like it's just about on it's last legs as we speak.

The only hope the poor old Establishment has to keep itself standing is to surrender to Total Public Awareness. I also like the idea of the Jubilee that Oleg has suggested on occasion - a global zeroing of accounts and elimination of debt. We need some way of hitting an economic reset button without the violence of a bloody people's revolution. The Establishment is the only thing in a position to do this. But it has to give something up and the only thing it has that's of any value or use is...power.

Edited July 8, 2011 by eyeball

[Pliny]

Oleg: He does not know the difference between right and wrong - but he is a master political pandering fool.

It must be nice to post in Internet forums all day while collecting a welfare cheque. It's us fools that provide for your existence.

Oleg is referring to Obama not you.

[Pliny]

A good post! I liked it.

I was called a rational anarchist once for proposing we let social justice occur naturally through sousveillance. Basically turning the Telescreens around and monitoring the government so that it is utterly unable to serve any one particular interest without everyone knowing about it, in realtime. Completely turn the top/down paradigm on its head. Let the people get on the government's back for a change.

Whenever the subject of camera surveillance comes up in the news I always suggest camera's everywhere - in every corner of the legislature, parliament buildings, and every bureaucratic office.

I'm far more interested in the equitable distribution of power, taking away the opportunity for government to operate in secrecy should help achieve that.

A new concept - the redistribution of power. Taking from the powerful and giving to the less powerful.

You would need an agency that held all the power in order to accomplish that. Governemnt tends to equate money with power and they do control all the money and do like to redistribute that; or at least pretend that's what they are doing.

You'd have to give me a specific example to comment on. If you're trying to pin me down on some issue that we're stuck dealing with under our present system then like anyone else, even you, I probably want the government to do all sorts of things. I mean lets face it, it's the one with the power to make stuff happen, like ending prohibition for example, not us.

I don't want the national government to do all sorts of things. You have to sort out what you want it to do.

Your biggest concern is fisheries, and like yourself I don't feel they should be managed from Ottawa.

But do you feel they should be managed form Ottawa? Perhaps, foreigners fishing in our waters should be a concern of Ottawa but fish stocks not their concern. That should be your concern or maybe a more local, regionalized agencies concern?

I want more localized governments so their proximity to the people and regions they govern make them more accessible and accountable to them. As for corporations, the charters that govern and breathe life into them should be drawn up by the people in the regions they operate in. I subscribe to the basic tenets of bioregionalism.

Precisely the paradigm upon which the United States was engineered. It was a union of States. The Federal government had a very limited mandate pertaining mostly to defense and justice. We know it tries to engineer the whole country now.

Canada was always a centrally run country. The Federal government was invited to stick it's nose in every aspect of the province's and individual's concerns if we wanted it to or not.

I'm pretty certain I'm going to have to wait until the inherently unsustainable system we have collapses under the weight of it's own crap, as it most certainly will. From where I'm sitting the wheezy old thing looks like it's just about on it's last legs as we speak.

Unfortuantely you may be correct, a collapse is pretty much the only option of correction. People won't make any sacrifice's of their entitlements and the establishment isn't about to start redistributing power.

Hopefully, we won't take too hard a fall.

The only hope the poor old Establishment has to keep itself standing is to surrender to Total Public Awareness. I also like the idea of the Jubilee that Oleg has suggested on occasion - a global zeroing of accounts and elimination of debt. We need some way of hitting an economic reset button without the violence of a bloody people's revolution. The Establishment is the only thing in a position to do this. But it has to give something up and the only thing it has that's of any value or use is...power.

The Japanese used to do this in their history. Every once in awhile an Emperor would declare all debts in the Empire null and void. I'm not sure how that worked out but I would think it made credit a little harder to get.

[GostHacked]

The Japanese used to do this in their history. Every once in awhile an Emperor would declare all debts in the Empire null and void. I'm not sure how that worked out but I would think it made credit a little harder to get.

With nation's economies being tied together, that would have to be done worldwide to null and void current debts.

[Oleg Bach]

Oleg is referring to Obama not you.

To muster hate against the poor in order to garner polical support is the ultimate in pandering. Lets look at what pandering means - It is to appeal to the lowest of human habits and prejudice - to appeal to the harsh and most cruel part of the human animal nature.....Much like this TIM Hudack character that was so stupid that he thought that he could win an election by proposing we turn our jails into work farms - prison farms - and some how he would get the hate vote...sorry Tim but our citizens are more sophisitcated than that - this is not 1956.

[Moonlight Graham]

It must be nice to post in Internet forums all day while collecting a welfare cheque. It's us fools that provide for your existence.

Completely out of line Shady. Never judge a man until you've walked a mile in his shoes...or at least know the whole story.

[Oleg Bach]

Completely out of line Shady. Never judge a man until you've walked a mile in his shoes...or at least know the whole story.

It's a long story...complex...some dedicate themselves to a cause that can never be won - They can be so diligent and dutiful that they burn out before the well organized and powerful advesary does. I simply got tired from fighting the good fight...like an ancient man in the brave new world...I was finally over run - then punished. Shady does not understand that I am not the typical person saved by the social saftey net - I am a person that was shoved into the net and caught..like a fish.

The people who I have had to deal with - the welfare burearcrats wish they had never laid eyes on me...They have these programs where they suggest that you volunteer your service _ I stuck it out once for 6 months at University Settlement..where I assisted immigrants and was offered a job as reception...I could not take the job because I could see that the governmental place was corrupt and the one running it had turned it into a buisness _ I made her nervous...that was my stint as a welfare volunteer...It is not really volunteering - YOU are coerced into doing things you don't want to do...if you do not "volunteer" - they can make you homeless.

Harris back in 1996 helped to create a thing called "Ontario Works" - It was a system that came out of the corporate world that would pressure and harrass those they considered lazy to WORK for them! Harris from what I know still sits on the board of Magna International...Having worked on the Magna compound and been in the homes of there executives as well as done some work at Belindas house - all I saw were nasty second class Euro trash...Once I asked a very smart old man in the know - If Magna was established on old Nazi money - he said yes...go figure --- and understand that Harris is one of those National Socialists...You don't expect atheist Nazis to run capitalist corporations but they do....The welfare system is an attempt to create compliant slaves - and if that does not work they slowly destroy you .

That is what I learned _ the system needs to be revised - some of our finest minds are being wasted by those who don't want those that are aware around.

[Shady]

Too delicious!

“We’ve got to get our fiscal house in order, I'm not sure it’s going to happen under the current leadership.” - Barack Obama, 2006 on voting against raising the debt ceiling.

Heckuva job Obamy, you really showed'em how it's done!

[punked]

Too delicious!

“We’ve got to get our fiscal house in order, I'm not sure it’s going to happen under the current leadership.” - Barack Obama, 2006 on voting against raising the debt ceiling.

Heckuva job Obamy, you really showed'em how it's done!

Yah and now he is proposing 4 trillion in spending cuts to do just that AND Republicans say he is cutting TOO much.

Too delicious Shady. That your team are a bunch of hypocrites who wont follow through on what they say when Obama is.

[Pliny]

Yah and now he is proposing 4 trillion in spending cuts to do just that AND Republicans say he is cutting TOO much.

Too delicious Shady. That your team are a bunch of hypocrites who wont follow through on what they say when Obama is.

Complaints from the left are that he isn't following through. Guess you aren't far enough to the left. Like Obama you are just a Liberal.

But believe me if Obama could have his way entirely he would be further left than anyone posting on this forum.

[Shady]

Yah and now he is proposing 4 trillion in spending cuts to do just that AND Republicans say he is cutting TOO much.

No, Republicans aren't saying he's cutting too much. However, Democrats certainly are. And the 4 trillion figure is over 10 years. So 400 billion per year. Now, does that factor in his 1.5 trillion dollar deficits every year? And does that factor in the 6 trillion he's already added to the debt in just 3 years? And does that factor in the 9 trillion in debt his budget projects over the next 10 years? Inquiring minds want to know!

[Pliny]

....The welfare system is an attempt to create compliant slaves - and if that does not work they slowly destroy you .

That is what I learned _ the system needs to be revised - some of our finest minds are being wasted by those who don't want those that are aware around.

I suppose the solution is to get rid of the welfare system not just revise it.

Can't have people being aware they are compliant slaves. Victims make great compliant slaves and live on peanuts - just tell them it isn't their fault as you feed them their peanuts.

[Pliny]

Yah and now he is proposing 4 trillion in spending cuts to do just that AND Republicans say he is cutting TOO much.

Too delicious Shady. That your team are a bunch of hypocrites who wont follow through on what they say when Obama is.

Think about it punked. Republicans aren't trying to win and influence new friends. Obama is just politicking as usual. And then he'll laugh and say things like: Guess things weren't as shovel ready as we thought! Nyuk Nyuk. Or: "Do those Republicans think they can nickel and dime me on the budget? What do they think we are? Stupid?"

He certainly isn't Presidential.

[punked]

No, Republicans aren't saying he's cutting too much. However, Democrats certainly are. And the 4 trillion figure is over 10 years. So 400 billion per year. Now, does that factor in his 1.5 trillion dollar deficits every year? And does that factor in the 6 trillion he's already added to the debt in just 3 years? And does that factor in the 9 trillion in debt his budget projects over the next 10 years? Inquiring minds want to know!

Yes they are. Cantor said yesterday 4 trillion is TOO MUCH and that he wont be able to find the votes and 2 trillion would be a better goal. THAT IS WHAT THE REPUBLICAN WHIP SAID ABOUT OBAMA's PLAN. Stick with your talking points Shady otherwise you post things and looks dumb like what you just posted.

and just for fun.

Edited July 9, 2011 by punked

[Shady]

Yes they are. Cantor said yesterday 4 trillion is TOO MUCH

Nope. You're lying again. Please stop the lying.

[punked]

Nope. You're lying again. Please stop the lying.

No I am really not. Here is a quote from a NEWS article not from the fantasy land you live in.

Cantor told Obama during Thursday’s bipartisan-bicameral meeting that a large-scale deal can’t pass the House. He and Senate Minority Whip Jon Kyl (R-Ariz.) are both pushing for a “middle” package that includes $2.4 trillion in spending cuts and no new tax revenues. Boehner’s Senate GOP counterpart, Minority Leader Mitch McConnell (Ky) is thus far non-committal to what he will support.

Obama like it or not thinks that US has to get its house in Order and wants 4 trillion in cuts. The republicans say 4 Trillion is to much and they can't get the votes. that is the story right now.

Now that I made Shady look dumb for calling me a lair when it is clear he knows nothing about what is going on in American politics and thus should not be trusted on anything. Don't we all think he should say he is sorry to me? This is just to delicious....Obama has made Shady and the Republicans look dumb by setting their crazy bar to high.

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0711/58605.html

Oh yah remember the time the Republicans took over the house of congress on JOBS JOBS JOBS and then they created none. Me to can't wait for them to run on jobs and no tax hikes on the rich in 2012.

Edited July 9, 2011 by punked

[Shady]

No I am really not. Here is a quote from a NEWS article not from the fantasy land you live in.

Nope, you're lying again. None of what you posted says anything about Republicans not voting for spending cuts because they're too big. Obama wants to raise taxes. That's why there isn't a deal yet. Stop lying punked. It's unbecoming.

[punked]

Nope, you're lying again. None of what you posted says anything about Republicans not voting for spending cuts because they're too big. Obama wants to raise taxes. That's why there isn't a deal yet. Stop lying punked. It's unbecoming.

Cantor said he couldn't sell a 4 trillion change in revenues he can only sell a 2 trillion dollar one. Republicans all talk. Sorry buddy you are the liar.

[Shady]

Cantor said he couldn't sell a 4 trillion change in revenues he can only sell a 2 trillion dollar one. Republicans all talk. Sorry buddy you are the liar.

Sorry buddy, you can't just make something up and pretend it's true. I heard that Obama said he wants to attack North Korea, and then bomb Germany.

He said it.

[BubberMiley]

Sorry buddy, you can't just make something up and pretend it's true.

But you can deny reality when it smacks you in the face?

[dre]

LOL@Shady

[Oleg Bach]

Too delicious!

“We’ve got to get our fiscal house in order, I'm not sure it’s going to happen under the current leadership.” - Barack Obama, 2006 on voting against raising the debt ceiling.

Heckuva job Obamy, you really showed'em how it's done!

The talking heads and sophisticates are now refering to Obama as "not a serious person" _ This really means that he is of no real substance other than putting on a nice show during election campaigns...and that is it!