pinko Posted July 11, 2011 Report Share Posted July 11, 2011 (edited) There's no doubt about that - what you say is true. I just don't see it happening. As I've pointed out before, both of our countries have had economic ebbs and tides throughout our history, and we've always weathered them. I hope it doesn't happen but at the moment there is a political donkey dance going on with no agreement among those concerned. Edited July 11, 2011 by pinko Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted July 11, 2011 Report Share Posted July 11, 2011 I hope it doesn't happen but at the moment there is a political donkey dance going on with no agreement among those concerned. ...it's only July 10th. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pinko Posted July 11, 2011 Report Share Posted July 11, 2011 ...it's only July 10th. Exactly Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shady Posted July 11, 2011 Report Share Posted July 11, 2011 Not true technically....defaults can be avoided by defunding programs and slowing outlays to service the debt. That's true. There will be more than enough money coming into the treasury to service the debt. The only difference being that Obama will actually have to prioritize government programs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pinko Posted July 11, 2011 Report Share Posted July 11, 2011 That's true. There will be more than enough money coming into the treasury to service the debt. The only difference being that Obama will actually have to prioritize government programs. I am sure you realize Congress has input on such priorities. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maple_leafs182 Posted July 11, 2011 Report Share Posted July 11, 2011 You mean someone who wants to stop US economic growth. The gold standard which both of them preach would do just that. There is no US economic growth. They are some of the few in congress who understand how the US got to the problem they are in now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pinko Posted July 11, 2011 Report Share Posted July 11, 2011 There is no US economic growth. They are some of the few in congress who understand how the US got to the problem they are in now. There is economic growth but it is very soft. I would suggest job growth is more important to ordinary people than this discussion about the debt and deficit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GostHacked Posted July 11, 2011 Report Share Posted July 11, 2011 Too delicious! “We’ve got to get our fiscal house in order, I'm not sure it’s going to happen under the current leadership.” - Barack Obama, 2006 on voting against raising the debt ceiling. Heckuva job Obamy, you really showed'em how it's done! Under a Republican congress, with a Republican Administration. But sure what the fuck, blame Obama anyways. Obama's pretty much put an end to economic growth anyways. Pathetic job growth for the last several months. That's quite a stimulus package he put together. Unfortunately, it's was a package of shit. Are you forgetting the stimulus packages that came about under Bush? Neither has the United States, which actually loaned Canadian banks TARP money to avoid default. So, why would the US give Canada money? Did we go on strike? I would expect that will become apparent by August 2, 2011. If it is not already. Nothing to see here, go back to accumulating more debt, it's all good!! (chants) DEFAULT DEFAULT DEFAULT !!! There's no doubt about that - what you say is true. I just don't see it happening. As I've pointed out before, both of our countries have had economic ebbs and tides throughout our history, and we've always weathered them. Ask yourself this. Is the USA's debt getting bigger? Or is it getting paid off. What happens when your personal debts become to big so that your hopes of it to pay it off will never happen. The government is not getting the revenue in taxes in order to pay off any kind of debt. The trade deficit is also playing into this where the US's economy is not producing the products it once used to (the beauty of outsourcing out of country)..... But, the US is not the only country in this position. As we've seen en Europe with Greece and several other countries, something is going to break. That's true. There will be more than enough money coming into the treasury to service the debt. Where does that money come from?? There is economic growth but it is very soft. I would suggest job growth is more important to ordinary people than this discussion about the debt and deficit. Job growth can help with the debt and deficit. Or am I thinking to simple on this one? One affects the other correct? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pliny Posted July 11, 2011 Author Report Share Posted July 11, 2011 (edited) Under a Republican congress, with a Republican Administration. But sure what the fuck, blame Obama anyways. Some of the blame goes to Frank Dodd, Barney Frank, Alan Greenspan, Harry Reid and Nasty Pelosi. Along with John McCain. Obama voted absent throughout most of his career in the Senate and since being President has done nothing but the first handy target for all his woes - while he appoints avowed communists and admirers of Chairman Mao to his advisory panels. Are you forgetting the stimulus packages that came about under Bush? Packages? I think that should be singular. Where does that money come from?? The central bank. They print it and circulate it and create credit to also increase the amount in the economy. But it is really just a standard practice of accounting not money. "Money" was history in 1972. Just debt has been issued by the central bank since that time. When currency was redeemable it used to get written off when it was redeemed or deposited but now they have no means to write it down except for creating some kind of bubble or boom which evetnually bursts and write downs occur. They have to get rid of some of that excess debt somehow. Simply taking it out of people's bank accounts just doesn't seem right but that's what taxes are - it retires some of the debt. Job growth can help with the debt and deficit. Or am I thinking to simple on this one? One affects the other correct? Job growth means production is occurring and government will issue debt to the economy in order to claim it. If you can't give them back their IOUs according to how many you accumulate you are in big trouble. If the economy can't give them back their IOUs the country is in trouble. All a stimulus package does is try to claim something that isn't there and the IOUs become devalued - it's called inflation. Edited July 11, 2011 by Pliny Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GostHacked Posted July 11, 2011 Report Share Posted July 11, 2011 Some of the blame goes to Frank Dodd, Barney Frank, Alan Greenspan, Harry Reid and Nasty Pelosi. Along with John McCain. Obama voted absent throughout most of his career in the Senate and since being President has done nothing but the first handy target for all his woes - while he appoints avowed communists and admirers of Chairman Mao to his advisory panels. Pliny, I might come off as a prick here for your post, but that is not my intention here. (for this post anyways) Oh yes indeed, but I was talking more rhetorical than anything. Many of us can see what is really happening. But others still choose to ignore the current state we are in. Packages? I think that should be singular. Alright, to be fair, one hell of a big ONE. The central bank. They print it and circulate it and create credit to also increase the amount in the economy. But it is really just a standard practice of accounting not money. "Money" was history in 1972. Just debt has been issued by the central bank since that time. When currency was redeemable it used to get written off when it was redeemed or deposited but now they have no means to write it down except for creating some kind of bubble or boom which evetnually bursts and write downs occur. They have to get rid of some of that excess debt somehow. Simply taking it out of people's bank accounts just doesn't seem right but that's what taxes are - it retires some of the debt. Again I was being rhetorical. We all know the current money system is flawed and is on the verge of breaking worldwide, not just in the USA. Job growth means production is occurring and government will issue debt to the economy in order to claim it. If you can't give them back their IOUs according to how many you accumulate you are in big trouble. If the economy can't give them back their IOUs the country is in trouble. No shit! You don't say! All a stimulus package does is try to claim something that isn't there and the IOUs become devalued - it's called inflation. Well to many, yourself included, can see what is happening. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pinko Posted July 11, 2011 Report Share Posted July 11, 2011 Under a Republican congress, with a Republican Administration. But sure what the fuck, blame Obama anyways. Are you forgetting the stimulus packages that came about under Bush? So, why would the US give Canada money? Did we go on strike? If it is not already. Nothing to see here, go back to accumulating more debt, it's all good!! (chants) DEFAULT DEFAULT DEFAULT !!! Ask yourself this. Is the USA's debt getting bigger? Or is it getting paid off. What happens when your personal debts become to big so that your hopes of it to pay it off will never happen. The government is not getting the revenue in taxes in order to pay off any kind of debt. The trade deficit is also playing into this where the US's economy is not producing the products it once used to (the beauty of outsourcing out of country)..... But, the US is not the only country in this position. As we've seen en Europe with Greece and several other countries, something is going to break. Where does that money come from?? Job growth can help with the debt and deficit. Or am I thinking to simple on this one? One affects the other correct? Correct. I believe job growth in the hundreds of thousands is required in the USA rather than the current anemic job growth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shady Posted July 11, 2011 Report Share Posted July 11, 2011 I am sure you realize Congress has input on such priorities. I'm sure you realize that they don't. Under a scenario where the debt ceiling isn't raised, the treasury secretary is in charge of who and what gets paid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shady Posted July 11, 2011 Report Share Posted July 11, 2011 Under a Republican congress, with a Republican Administration. But sure what the fuck, blame Obama anyways. Who am I suppose to blame for acting worse than the Republicans he was criticizing? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pinko Posted July 11, 2011 Report Share Posted July 11, 2011 I'm sure you realize that they don't. Under a scenario where the debt ceiling isn't raised, the treasury secretary is in charge of who and what gets paid. Yes and he has a fourteenth amendment option if he wishes to use it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
punked Posted July 11, 2011 Report Share Posted July 11, 2011 Who am I suppose to blame for acting worse than the Republicans he was criticizing? Why because when Republicans raised the debt ceiling he said that they should do something like cut spending or raise revenue? Now that he is power he wants to raise the debt ceiling while cutting spending and raising revenue? Seems like he is doing just what he said should have been done in 2006 when he voted against it and you are acting to stupid to understand that. This isn't an Obama problem it is a Shady problem no matter how many times people point out how dumb you sound you keep it up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pinko Posted July 11, 2011 Report Share Posted July 11, 2011 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_pje5l7KZDw&sns=fb Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GostHacked Posted July 11, 2011 Report Share Posted July 11, 2011 Who am I suppose to blame for acting worse than the Republicans he was criticizing? And here you thought the recent Republican landslide to get the congress and house seats would be enough to counter the plans that Obama criticized before, but yet are continuing down the same path. One day you will see the light about the fallacy that is the left and the right, no matter what label you put on them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oleg Bach Posted July 11, 2011 Report Share Posted July 11, 2011 You owe a trillion - and you come to me and you want to borrow another trilliion...I will say yes...If you take that second loan and blow it like a drunken sailor taking your freinds out for drinks called Bailouts...then when YOU come for the third trillion because enough is never enough - I would say NO ! The dept ceiling should not be raised let them work it out or let nature take its course. America will not crumble - besides is it the duty of the average American tax payer to keep footing the bill for inept rich people who are simply not very good are lack the skill to stay rich - let them fall and let the new group rise up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
punked Posted July 11, 2011 Report Share Posted July 11, 2011 You owe a trillion - and you come to me and you want to borrow another trilliion...I will say yes...If you take that second loan and blow it like a drunken sailor taking your freinds out for drinks called Bailouts...then when YOU come for the third trillion because enough is never enough - I would say NO ! The dept ceiling should not be raised let them work it out or let nature take its course. America will not crumble - besides is it the duty of the average American tax payer to keep footing the bill for inept rich people who are simply not very good are lack the skill to stay rich - let them fall and let the new group rise up. That just isn't true. If I make 500 Trillion a year you will give me the 3 trillion dollar loan no problem. How you speak just isn't how credit works. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pinko Posted July 11, 2011 Report Share Posted July 11, 2011 (edited) FORTY MILLION AMERICANS ARE UNEMPLOYED. FIVE QUALIFIED INDIVIDUALS COMPETE PER JOB. MANY AMERICANS ARE UNDEREMPLOYED RELATIVE TO THEIR QUALIFICATIONS. Edited July 11, 2011 by pinko Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted July 11, 2011 Report Share Posted July 11, 2011 FORTY MILLION AMERICANS ARE UNEMPLOYED. FIVE QUALIFIED INDIVIDUALS COMPETE PER JOB. MANY AMERICANS ARE UNDEREMPLOYED RELATIVE TO THEIR QUALIFICATIONS. So? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shady Posted July 11, 2011 Report Share Posted July 11, 2011 And here you thought the recent Republican landslide to get the congress and house seats would be enough to counter the plans that Obama criticized before, but yet are continuing down the same path. But they're not going down the same path. Obama hasn't gotten his debt ceiling increase. And won't until he agrees to significant spending cuts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pinko Posted July 11, 2011 Report Share Posted July 11, 2011 So? Do tax cuts truly stimulate? If 10 years of tax cuts are supposed to stimulate the economy and create jobs, where is that economy and where are those jobs? A.Bruce Bartlett : The Bush tax cuts were economically worthless. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted July 11, 2011 Report Share Posted July 11, 2011 Do tax cuts truly stimulate? If 10 years of tax cuts are supposed to stimulate the economy and create jobs, where is that economy and where are those jobs? Do tax hikes really stimulate? Government's role is greatly exaggerated either way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pinko Posted July 11, 2011 Report Share Posted July 11, 2011 Do tax hikes really stimulate? Government's role is greatly exaggerated either way. You mean do tax breaks for the rich stimulate the economy. Ther answer is no. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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