The crisis in Egypt

[bud]

who is sweating more? mubarak or the zionist government? who will help them keep the gazans in prison now?

time is up for mubarak. he will be resigning soon.

[bud]

If Mubarak falls it could be a beginnig of something extraordinary.. nothing short of the fall of communism in the 90-s. Of course Bush, Chainey and Obama can all claim it.. if not with principled stance against all dictators, then maybe with their fiaskos in Afghanstan or Iraq... brilliant policy in Iran and Palestine...not to mention those clumsy attempts to undermine wikileanks.

how can they claim it when they've made every attempt to keep these weasels in power? you can't claim that you helped topple dictators when you're paying them billions every year in military aid.

mubarak will be on one of his private jets to england in the next day or two.

[Bitsy]

For once I agree with Bush_Cheney2004, in that this is a positive thing overall.

Certainly, things could go horribly wrong. But the people demanding the ouster of dictators?

In and of itself, it's a good, and is a positive sign.

Better the people demanding the ouster of dictators than a foreign army. But even at that, our experiences in Iraq and Afghanistan has shown that that the removal of tyranny does not necessarily lead to a stable democracy.

[Bob]

For once I agree with Bush_Cheney2004, in that this is a positive thing overall.

Certainly, things could go horribly wrong. But the people demanding the ouster of dictators?

In and of itself, it's a good, and is a positive sign.

It depends what they want. I won't support a popular uprising against a dictator on ideological grounds (democracy yay!) without understanding its implications to me and my people.

[Jack Weber]

This is the first time we have seen a country's Internet access go down and get cut. I mean that in of itself is huge news.

If the Egyptian military is supporting the protesters then I find that encouraging. If they did not, then they would be seen as supporting Mubarek in which the people want him gone.

Could this also be an attempt at a coup with ElBaradei getting into power?

I suspect this is correct...

I suspect that El Baradei IS the US's man that's going to be installed under the guise of "democratic reform"...

If a leader still needs military support to rule a country,I have grave concerns that the generals in that military would give up that almost absolute power in favour of a true representative democracy...This would seem to be the reason that the military is "supporting" the protesters..

Mubarek must not have paid his henchmen (High ranking military officials) to be not getting their support...

As it relates to the shutting down of the internet...

So much for "Net Neutrality"...

[Moonlight Graham]

Hopefully this does not spill over, but with Tunisia also going through some of the same things Egypt is, it has the potential to get much bigger and consume a good deal of Africa and spill over into the Middle East. Keep your eyes on this, hopefully it does not escalate.

I hope it does escalate. These protesters in Tunisia, Algeria, Egypt, Yemen etc. are demanding more democracy and wanting these authoritarian leaders who have reigned for decades to step down. I hope the people of these countries get what they want from their government. I just hope it occurs with as little violence as possible.

Stability is important, but not at the sake of popular demands for change, democracy, and self-determination. There are certainly risks that come with change, such as any of these countries self-destructing like Somalia, or an Islamist regime such as the Muslim Brotherhood (or an Islamist militia group like the Taliban) taking over in Egypt or elsewhere. But sometimes risks and instability are worth it. The Glorious Revolution, American Revolution, and French Revolution etc. came at great risks and at the expense of stability.

These events are historic, and if these movements continue/spread, could completely change the dynamics of the entire greater middle-east region (for better or worse).

[Jack Weber]

For once I agree with Bush_Cheney2004, in that this is a positive thing overall.

Certainly, things could go horribly wrong. But the people demanding the ouster of dictators?

In and of itself, it's a good, and is a positive sign.

Absolutely...

The problem is what happens in the inevitable power vacuum post-ouster...

Let' just say that I'm extremely dubious that a true representative democracy is going to flourish in these places that have never known anything of the sort.

When I hear that the military in Egypt is backing the protestors,and someone like El Baradei (I'm not saying he's a bad guy.I'm saying that it seems like he's being put in a position because he's a more palatable option for the Egyptian populous) seems to be in the process of being installed,I have to question the ability of any democratic movement to move forward.

Another thing...

When I hear the name Mohammed El Baradei,I think of nuclear facility inspection and nuclear weapons knowledge.He was one of the key people involved in the inspection of the Iranian nuclear program,and now he's potentially going to be the leader of an Islamic country directly on Israel's border...

Edited January 29, 2011 by Jack Weber

[Guest TrueMetis]

Well I hope the best for the people of Egypt and that they get someone who will actually try to help things in charge.

[scribblet]

I agree with that, what are the odds on them having a corruption free election, if they get that far.

This is certainly a people's revolt, too many unemployed young people, but the Muslim Brotherhood is getting involved which isn't good news for democracy and reform. If they end up gaining control it will end up as an Islamist state.

[Guest TrueMetis]

I agree with that, what are the odds on them having a corruption free election, if they get that far.

This is certainly a people's revolt, too many unemployed young people, but the Muslim Brotherhood is getting involved which isn't good news for democracy and reform. If they end up gaining control it will end up as an Islamist state.

I don't know much about the Muslim Brotherhood so correct me if I'm wrong but aren't they pretty good when compared to most other Muslim groups of this type? I mean would they be better than the current guy?

[Jack Weber]

I don't know much about the Muslim Brotherhood so correct me if I'm wrong but aren't they pretty good when compared to most other Muslim groups of this type? I mean would they be better than the current guy?

Absolutely not!!!!

Many Al Quaeda higher ups like Ayman Al-Zwahiri,Bin Laden's right hand man,were /are members of the Muslim Brotherhood.In fact,there is a fair amount of evidence that the Muslim Brotherhood had a large role to play in the assassination of Anwar Saddat.

As I understand it,the Muslim Brotherhood is the largest ORGANIZED opposition group in Egypt.That organization would assist them greatly in a chaotic situation like we are seeing.This si the most troubling aspect of a Fascist dictatorship falling...Not the potential for democracy,but rather,the potential for things to go the other way and become far worse!

Edited January 29, 2011 by Jack Weber

[scribblet]

I don't know much about the Muslim Brotherhood so correct me if I'm wrong but aren't they pretty good when compared to most other Muslim groups of this type? I mean would they be better than the current guy?

They are banned in Egypt, a brotherhood takeover would be disastrous. They are anti west and anti Israel, Hamas is a branch of the Brotherhood.

[Guest TrueMetis]

They are banned in Egypt, a brotherhood takeover would be disastrous. They are anti west and anti Israel, Hamas is a branch of the Brotherhood.

OK thanks.

[dre]

I hope it does "escalate"....that was the plan all along!

Whos plan? Mobarak is a US surrogate backed with US dollars. You can be sure the last thing they want is to have their guy toppled, and roll the dice and hope the next guy cooperates too.

[scribblet]

Interesting how fast they could shut down the net isn't it?

There's a lot at stake here if the Brotherhood manages to take over the protests, if Egypt should fall into a theocratic repression, the consequences would be catastrophhic. Not just for Egypt for the rest of the world.

[xul]

Whos plan?

CNN

[GostHacked]

Better the people demanding the ouster of dictators than a foreign army. But even at that, our experiences in Iraq and Afghanistan has shown that that the removal of tyranny does not necessarily lead to a stable democracy.

True, but I think that change has to come from within. If this is Egypt's revolution, then I suspect it to become stable before either Iraq or Afghanistan would.

[GostHacked]

Interesting how fast they could shut down the net isn't it?

There's a lot at stake here if the Brotherhood manages to take over the protests, if Egypt should fall into a theocratic repression, the consequences would be catastrophhic. Not just for Egypt for the rest of the world.

I always known it could be done, but wow, to know now it has been done. And I agree with your comments on the Brotherhood. Maybe I need to watch `Power of Nightmares` again.

[dre]

Interesting how fast they could shut down the net isn't it?

There's a lot at stake here if the Brotherhood manages to take over the protests, if Egypt should fall into a theocratic repression, the consequences would be catastrophhic. Not just for Egypt for the rest of the world.

Yeah the last thing ANY country needs is religious conservatives in charge!

[Moonlight Graham]

I think it's hard right now to say if/how the Bush admin's policies influenced what happened in Tunisia and the rest. It is certainly a possibility it did. On the other hand, the Bush admin didn't influence the Tienanmen Square protests.

After some of this settles it will be interesting to see what the protesters of these countries say re: their motivations. Certainly it's something that has been simmering. Will they say "we say what was happening with the Iraq government and we thought our crappy leader was giving us a bum deal"? Or will they say "we were inspired by the man who set himself on fire and we're tired of having no jobs/money". We'll see.

[wyly]

If Mubarak falls it could be a beginnig of something extraordinary.. nothing short of the fall of communism in the 90-s. Of course Bush, Chainey and Obama can all claim it.. if not with principled stance against all dictators, then maybe with their fiaskos in Afghanstan or Iraq... brilliant policy in Iran and Palestine...not to mention those clumsy attempts to undermine wikileanks.

sarcasm right? it's the US that undermined democracies and keeps these dictators in power...

[xul]

sarcasm right? it's the US that undermined democracies and keeps these dictators in power...

I think it's that the Pentagon-kinds prop the dictators because of their military-map-correctness meanwhile the CNN-kinds undermine these dictators's regimes due to their political-correctness.

Just imagine, if a python tried to engulf its tail by its mouth, what would come out?

[scribblet]

I think it's hard right now to say if/how the Bush admin's policies influenced what happened in Tunisia and the rest. It is certainly a possibility it did. On the other hand, the Bush admin didn't influence the Tienanmen Square protests.

After some of this settles it will be interesting to see what the protesters of these countries say re: their motivations. Certainly it's something that has been simmering.=================

It's been simmering because of the large number of unemployed young people and the need for reform. The Brotherhood didn't seemingly start this but are always waiting for a chance to stir the pot and take over. There has been a lot of unrest, see the fence between Palestine and Egypt, bombings of Christian churches, tunnels to the West Bank/Gaza, one wonders if the Brotherhood et al haven't been quietly stirring the pot.

If Islamic fundamentalists take control of the most populous Muslim country in the world, it could be catastrophic. Same as if the Taliban took over Pakistan and it's nuclear arsenal.

Edited January 29, 2011 by scribblet

[lukin]

It's been simmering because of the large number of unemployed young people and the need for reform. The Brotherhood didn't seemingly start this but are always waiting for a chance to stir the pot and take over. There has been a lot of unrest, see the fence between Palestine and Egypt, bombings of Christian churches, tunnels to the West Bank/Gaza, one wonders if the Brotherhood et al haven't been quietly stirring the pot.

If Islamic fundamentalists take control of the most populous Muslim country in the world, it could be catastrophic. Same as if the Taliban took over Pakistan and it's nuclear arsenal.

No country is more pleased with what is happening in Egypt than Iran. Scary times.

[GWiz]

Wow, hard to believe, CBC has the best reporting of this event... Egyptians around the world are coming out in support of the overthrow of Mubarak... It's come from within Egypt, involves every political stripe in Egypt... Involves every age group, both male and female... It's a true revolution... Mubarak's security forces (police, not the Military) are on the run and scattering after taking an initial hard line and firing tear gas, water cannon and rubber bullets ( a few live rounds mixed in too I'm betting)... The Military is protecting key structure but taking no action... The protest is country wide and seemingly unstoppable... The population is disapointed that Obama (he's in a no win situation) hasn't come out in support when Britain and most of rest of the world is supporting the ouster of Mubarak already... There's nothing "radical" happening, no flag burnings, no anti Israel or anti US shouting, the protesters just want Mubarak out and a better life...