Canadian family doctors are murders

[bjre]

Just happened to find a web page says: Killing Time Isn’t Murder – It’s Suicide (

http://www.earlytorise.com/2010/02/17/killing-time-isn%E2%80%99t-murder-its-suicide/ )

That will imply that those who killing other's time are murders.

Who kills others time, many people in Canada enjoy that, how many times when you go to an organization and they tell you come home and call them and that is the only way to make an appointment.

And the family doctors, they seems always have a full room of people waiting for hours.

If you complain for that, you will be polite asked to find another family doctor.

How many hours Canadians wasted in this way?

How many hours a person has in all his life?

That will make how many people killed in this way in Canada each day?

The system made this.

The health system and the medical system make money not only by wasting taxpayer's money, but also by killing others everyday.

Edited December 18, 2010 by bjre

[Saipan]

And the family doctors, they seems always have a full room of people waiting for hours.

Have to agree with you - for a change.

It became national custom of all "important" people. Appoitments are to be kept only by the customers.

I grew up in the days when doctor came to the house.

[wyly]

MD's have blocks of time allocated to each patient based on their issues a full physical will take up several blocks of time, blocks are usually 15 minutes...many MDs now only allow three issues per visit to prevent going over the allotted time but often let the patient take them past that...the MD will also squeeze in emergency visits...so wait time are the fault of patients not MDs, I've never waited more than a hour to see an MD on a pre booked visit...

[Shwa]

MD's have blocks of time allocated to each patient based on their issues a full physical will take up several blocks of time, blocks are usually 15 minutes...many MDs now only allow three issues per visit to prevent going over the allotted time but often let the patient take them past that...the MD will also squeeze in emergency visits...so wait time are the fault of patients not MDs, I've never waited more than a hour to see an MD on a pre booked visit...

I don't think I have ever waited more than an hour as well, usually much less than that, 15 minutes maybe. Sometimes I got in early. And this is several different docs in several different cities in Ontario and Quebec.

[Michael Hardner]

If the planned appointment times were set according to the average length of visit, then you would also have times when you wait less than the 15 minutes.

[wyly]

If the planned appointment times were set according to the average length of visit, then you would also have times when you wait less than the 15 minutes.

yup, I can't wait to get out I come in for one issue and then I'm outta there, but of course there patients that will talk the doc's ear off with all their problems...MD's want to go home at the end of a work day just like the rest of us they don't purposely over book themselves...I don't know how it works elsewhere but from my understanding MDs are only paid for the 15 minute block of time per patient if the visit goes over they won't be paid for their time... Edited December 19, 2010 by wyly

[Wilber]

I don't think I have ever waited more than an hour as well, usually much less than that, 15 minutes maybe. Sometimes I got in early. And this is several different docs in several different cities in Ontario and Quebec.

I never seem to finish the magazine article I am reading before my name is called.

[Moonlight Graham]

Have to agree with you - for a change.

It became national custom of all "important" people. Appoitments are to be kept only by the customers.

I grew up in the days when doctor came to the house.

I used to arrive a bit early for my appointments (maybe 10 minutes), like any courteous person does. But then i finally figured out a few years ago that it was a waste of my time. i'd wait, and then they'd make me wait an extra 10-20 minutes to get called, then wait another 5-10 minutes in the office before doc came in.

Now i arrive either right when my appointment starts or even a bit late. When i arrive late i find i get called in very quickly.

Edited December 19, 2010 by Moonlight Graham

[wyly]

I used to arrive a bit early for my appointments (maybe 10 minutes), like any courteous person does. But then i finally figured out a few years ago that it was a waste of my time. i'd wait, and then they'd make me wait an extra 10-20 minutes to get called, then wait another 5-10 minutes in the office before doc came in.

Now i arrive either right when my appointment starts or even a bit late. When i arrive late i find i get called in very quickly.

I just book my visits so that I'm the first appointment of the day or the last of day on friday...

[pfezziwig]

As with any service field, it is unpredicable how long each patient(customer) will take to address. If you deal with 20-30 patients a day most will fit in the alloted 15minute scheduled time but all it takes is 10% of the people to go over and then everyone is affected downstream. I usually try to book appointments first thing in the morning, less chance for delays then.

This could only be alleviated with an economies of scale model used by most telephone service reps, customers are serviced by the next available rep, not their own personnel special rep, but everyone will of course argue they need to have a doctor that knows them and a new doctor cannot treat them as well, personally I don't agree with this as most doctors are highly skilled to assess you on the spot, not without knowing your lifestory.

[PIK]

In my small town we are losing doctors fast. I was lucky and got a new female doctor. It turns out our old doctors have 1200-1500 people to see, the new ones here are cutting off at 400 and my new doctor in the 3 years I have had her has been pregnant twice and only works mornings.

[wyly]

This could only be alleviated with an economies of scale model used by most telephone service reps, customers are serviced by the next available rep, not their own personnel special rep, but everyone will of course argue they need to have a doctor that knows them and a new doctor cannot treat them as well, personally I don't agree with this as most doctors are highly skilled to assess you on the spot, not without knowing your lifestory.

which is what I've always said, I'm just as happy going to a walk-in clinic...99.99% of my complaints don't require a knowledge of my health history...the advantage of family MD is I can make an appointment and be reasonably sure I won't be waiting a long time for my turn... ...

[guyser]

This could only be alleviated with an economies of scale model used by most telephone service reps, customers are serviced by the next available rep, not their own personnel special rep, but everyone will of course argue they need to have a doctor that knows them and a new doctor cannot treat them as well, personally I don't agree with this as most doctors are highly skilled to assess you on the spot, not without knowing your lifestory.

Yes cuz my cable bill and my health are on par with each other.

[Bryan]

I've never waited more than a hour to see an MD on a pre booked visit...

Neither have I.

[Zachary Young]

The doctors share some blame, for the influence they have exerted through the CMA, but in reality the politicians are to blame for having designed this ridiculous system and the public as well for buying it hook line and sinker. When cost to the end user is zero demand is going to sky high and the end result in shortages and rationing. Sadly, in the case of health care shortages and rationing mean people die, yes people die. Socialism doesn't work, it never has and it never will, it's a bad idea and the only solution is free market health care.

[Shwa]

Socialism doesn't work, it never has and it never will, it's a bad idea and the only solution is free market health care.

Nope!

[bloodyminded]

The doctors share some blame, for the influence they have exerted through the CMA, but in reality the politicians are to blame for having designed this ridiculous system and the public as well for buying it hook line and sinker. When cost to the end user is zero demand is going to sky high and the end result in shortages and rationing. Sadly, in the case of health care shortages and rationing mean people die, yes people die. Socialism doesn't work, it never has and it never will, it's a bad idea and the only solution is free market health care.

I would agree with you, if there was any evidence that such a system would be broadly superior, as well as not terribly expensive.

But there is zero evidence of any such claims. So screw that noise.

[Bryan]

Sadly, in the case of health care shortages and rationing mean people die, yes people die.

Still not seeing these shortages or rationing here in Winnipeg. Even when I expect to wait, I don't:

This past Wednesday afternoon (December 22, 2010), I called my doctor to make an appointment for a non-urgent matter. I was fully expecting to wait a while, no only because this was something that could wait, but especially because this was only a couple of days before Christmas. Instead of having to wait, my doctor did what he usually does: he booked me in for the following morning. I show up right at appointment time, and get called in for my appointment within two minutes.

[sunman]

Just happened to find a web page says: Killing Time Isn’t Murder – It’s Suicide (

http://www.earlytorise.com/2010/02/17/killing-time-isn%E2%80%99t-murder-its-suicide/ )

That will imply that those who killing other's time are murders.

Who kills others time, many people in Canada enjoy that, how many times when you go to an organization and they tell you come home and call them and that is the only way to make an appointment.

And the family doctors, they seems always have a full room of people waiting for hours.

If you complain for that, you will be polite asked to find another family doctor.

How many hours Canadians wasted in this way?

How many hours a person has in all his life?

That will make how many people killed in this way in Canada each day?

The system made this.

The health system and the medical system make money not only by wasting taxpayer's money, but also by killing others everyday.

Can we do anything about it?

Edited December 31, 2010 by sunman

[bjre]

Can we do anything about it?

I think the better is abolish the license for doctors.

Anyone can be a doctor without being charged.

Let doctors and medical providers competition.

Give people freedom to choose their own doctors they trust even as like religion.

There will be people die in wrong medical service, the current system also have this problem. Large number of people die of avoidable wrong medical treatment each year. What is needed is a court order to prevent people with medical accident from to be a doctor again.

When anyone can be a doctor, anything can be medicine, anyone has the freedom of being a doctor and has the freedom to ask another one help him without lead to the one be asked be charged, the medical price will be reduce significantly, the high price doctors will lost their jobs, the high price monopoly medicine factory will bankrupt.

People will enjoy the real useful and cheap medical care they deserve.

But this will make current interest takers worries significantly, they have unions, they have lobbies, the control the topic on the mainstream media, they control the law, they control the country, not the majority of the people here control those things, that is the meaning of "democracy"

Edited December 31, 2010 by bjre

[Moonbox]

When anyone can be a doctor, anything can be medicine, anyone has the freedom of being a doctor and has the freedom to ask another one help him without lead to the one be asked be charged, the medical price will be reduce significantly, the high price doctors will lost their jobs, the high price monopoly medicine factory will bankrupt.

People will enjoy the real useful and cheap medical care they deserve.

Yes. Very good. In Red China, anyone can be doctor! I can be doctor! Give me $100 I give you breast implants! After you wake up, I will be disappeared! WiTH your moneys!

[bjre]

Yes. Very good. In Red China, anyone can be doctor! I can be doctor! Give me $100 I give you breast implants! After you wake up, I will be disappeared! WiTH your moneys!

In Canada, in Scarborough Grace Hospital, pregnant go to hospital to deliver a baby and die because of blood not prepared, the doctor is still in that hospital, and another pregnant die when deliver a baby with the same doctor.

[Pliny]

Yes. Very good. In Red China, anyone can be doctor! I can be doctor! Give me $100 I give you breast implants! After you wake up, I will be disappeared! WiTH your moneys!

Really? Someone would believe you were a doctor?

[wyly]

The doctors share some blame, for the influence they have exerted through the CMA, but in reality the politicians are to blame for having designed this ridiculous system and the public as well for buying it hook line and sinker. When cost to the end user is zero demand is going to sky high and the end result in shortages and rationing. Sadly, in the case of health care shortages and rationing mean people die, yes people die. Socialism doesn't work, it never has and it never will, it's a bad idea and the only solution is free market health care.

got any stats to back up these silly myths?...didn't think so...

[bjre]

Who said we should trust western medical system because it is "scientific"?

Let's see the data:

America's Healthcare System is the Third Leading Cause of Death

http://www.health-care-reform.net/causedeath.htm

Even more significantly, the medical system has played a large role in undermining the health of Americans. According to several research studies in the last decade, a total of 225,000 Americans per year have died as a result of their medical treatments:

• 12,000 deaths per year due to unnecessary surgery

• 7000 deaths per year due to medication errors in hospitals

• 20,000 deaths per year due to other errors in hospitals

• 80,000 deaths per year due to infections in hospitals

• 106,000 deaths per year due to negative effects of drugs

Thus, America's healthcare-system-induced deaths are the third leading cause of the death in the U.S., after heart disease and cancer.

Are there any significant difference between American doctors and medicine and Canadian ones.

Edited January 9, 2011 by bjre