Cancun sun speeds decay of global warming charade

[wyly]

The climate change scientists barely have a grasp on how our weather works. We can't seem to predict weather with much accuracy (always room for error) so how would they be able to predict the trend in global warming when the models themselves are not fully understood and are not fully complete. The jet streams over North American have shifted greatly over the past decade or so, and they did not see that coming, how the hell are they to predict 100 years down the road?

you've got it turned around backwards, weather is more unpredictable/variable than climate...even though I'm not a meteorologist or a climatologist I can't predict the temp June 30 2011, but I can predict with 100% accuracy December 2011 will be colder than June...

[waldo]

Hey buddy, are you still a supporter of China's clean coal?

all is revealed, Shadyone... how are you doing on those original questions, now supplanted with the latter additional ones - hey?

[Saipan]

humans have effectively changed the planet to the point that mass extinction is already underway

So how did they "extincted" mammoth, sabretooth tiger, dire wolf.............. etc.??

[GostHacked]

"albeit a little different"... buddy, we are not on the same page - no matter how hard you're trying to be on mine!!!

We both want to reduce fossil fuel emissions. This much is true between us.

You want to reduce fossil fuel emissions to mitigate CO2.

I want to reduce fossil fuel emissions to mitigate other toxins.

You and I are already on the same page in terms of the process, regardless of our end goals being different, and in the end that will satisfy both of our arguments.

[Shady]

how are you doing on those original questions, now supplanted with the latter additional ones - hey?

Not good. I couldn't find any relevant information. Anyways, now that that's taken care of, how about answering the question? It should only take a second. It's a yes or no answer.

already covered... China is building new more efficient coal power plants... and actively engaged in replacing old, less efficient coal power plants.

Earlier in this thread you said this. I was just wondering if you're a supporter of China's coal plant replacement? It sounds as though you are.

[GostHacked]

you've got it turned around backwards, weather is more unpredictable/variable than climate...even though I'm not a meteorologist or a climatologist I can't predict the temp June 30 2011, but I can predict with 100% accuracy December 2011 will be colder than June...

Well the way we also know is that winter is colder than summer is that the planet is tilted on the north south axis. That alone creates the summer/winter without being an expert in anything. Knowing the orientation of the planet with the sun as it orbits the sun leads to you being correct.

I can see what you are getting at. But again, if we don't know specifics of weather, how can we accurately foresee climate change? One affects the other does it not?

[Shady]

Waldo's World!

This is great video of delegates at the UN Cancun climate change summit. They're asked to sign a petition banning H2O, which they happily sign. They're also asked to sign a petition calling for a 6% reduction in GDP for the United States if they don't comply with Kyoto. Which they also happily sign. One guy even laughs at the prospect.

It's a great instructional video illustrating how these alarmist Waldo-type delegates think and behave. Apparently they have no problem lowering an entire countries GDP by 6%. The largest economy in the world. And apparently they see no ripple effects for other countries GDP, and the unemployment and poverty it would cause. It's truely frightening. :angry:

[wyly]

Well the way we also know is that winter is colder than summer is that the planet is tilted on the north south axis. That alone creates the summer/winter without being an expert in anything. Knowing the orientation of the planet with the sun as it orbits the sun leads to you being correct.

true but the climate can be hot and humid, hot and dry, cold damp or cold dry depending on the region you live...climate is more stable and predictable than weather because it's long term...

I can see what you are getting at. But again, if we don't know specifics of weather, how can we accurately foresee climate change? One affects the other does it not?

climate governs/indicates the type of weather...weather is a symptom of climate...

[waldo]

Shady, don't be so down... it's generally acknowledged the Cancun agreement is still quite lacking in terms of where we need to get to... you know, 'baby steps'. Just take solace in recognizing that even though your denier side can't challenge the actual science, you can always find some group of punksters to give you a warm and fuzzy - anything to make you think you're still in the game - hey, lil' buddy?

[Shady]

Shady, don't be so down

Down? Quite the opposite. I find it highly entertaining that a group of delegates coming together for a meeting that's suppose to be based on science, have so little grasp on any actual science or policy. Those are your boys Waldo! That's your team!

[waldo]

Shady, don't be so down... it's generally acknowledged the Cancun agreement is still quite lacking in terms of where we need to get to... you know, 'baby steps'. Just take solace in recognizing that even though your denier side can't challenge the actual science, you can always find some group of punksters to give you a warm and fuzzy - anything to make you think you're still in the game - hey, lil' buddy?

Down? Quite the opposite. I find it highly entertaining that a group of delegates coming together for a meeting that's suppose to be based on science, have so little grasp on any actual science or policy. Those are your boys Waldo! That's your team!

no Shady... those CFACT boys are your denier buddies - of course, any ole denier agenda driven group can slap together a video to presume to say just about anything their agenda wants - hey? Run down that list of stated 'CFACT advisers' (a who's who of denialdom)... realize CFACT refuses to disclose it's funding. We could have quite some fun delving into the history/makeup/practices of CFACT - hey?

like I said, Shady... don't be so down about a climate agreement that actually moves "us" forward - there's must more work to do... and still a lot of time for you to ramp up your frivolous, your distortions, your fabrications... your lies.

Shady... how do you rationalize your favoured Harper Conservatives signing on to the Cancun agreement? You really need to send every government member your CFACT spun agenda driven video... you need to get the word out Shady!

[Guest TrueMetis]

that's something I had assumed was understood so I never really cared until I read that there was no consensus on how it actually worked ...

There is a consensus, the graviton, the problem is actually finding the damn thing. It's one of the things the LHC is supposed to find.

[Saipan]

those CFACT boys are your denier buddies - of course, any ole denier agenda driven group can slap together a video to presume to say just about anything their agenda wants - hey?

And what exactly are they denying?

[waldo]

And what exactly are they denying?

global warm up?

where do we find that elusive global warm up?

And what happen to "global warm up"?

So where's the global warm up?

OK, so where's the "global warm up"?

So, where's the global warm up already?

And where is the global warm up?

Where is the global warm up?

[Saipan]

So, where do we find that elusive global warm up?

[Michael Hardner]

So, where do we find that elusive global warm up?

Here on earth:

NASA: Hottest November on record, 2010 likely hottest year on record globally — despite deepest solar minimum in a century

You should visit once in awhile.

[Shady]

global warm up?

All they did is ask these UN climate delegates simples questions, and expose their complete ignorance.

[ironstone]

I hope somebody warned Al Gore to stay away from his multi million dollar ocean front property since sea levels are rapidly rising.....they are aren't they?

[GostHacked]

I hope somebody warned Al Gore to stay away from his multi million dollar ocean front property since sea levels are rapidly rising.....they are aren't they?

You made my freakin day !!! Bravo.

[dre]

We can turn to some books as well. Currently reading this one

http://www.amazon.ca/Deniers-Lawrence-Solomon/dp/0980076315

Basically all of the opponents of AGW deny that any data in their respected fields show that man is the major cause of global warming. These are scientists that overall believe that AGW is true, but in each of their respected fields, they have no conclusive data showing it is all true. The book gets into the hockey stick that Gore liked, and when the correct math was done, the stick went away. There were apparently some flaws in the model and data that was used to render the hockey stick. The article you posted hints on that very fact that the numbers/data seem to be fudged.

If there are no people/scientists coming out against AGW ... why can I easily go to the book store and buy about 5-10 books on exactly this same subject of scientists coming out against AGW. Sure any scientists can write a book on any subject, but it seems like anyone (including the so called inventor of the Internet lolololol) can write a book to.

To me the whole AGW is an economic/political problem and not really a scientific problem.

If there are no people/scientists coming out against AGW ... why can I easily go to the book store and buy about 5-10 books on exactly this same subject of scientists coming out against AGW

Thats besides the point. Anybody can write a book. What you want to look for is scientists in relevant fields, that have performed scientific works and submitted them to scientific journals for peer review.

[dre]

Man! It was cold out today! I KNEW global warming was fake!

[Shady]

Man! It was cold out today! I KNEW global warming was fake!

Tell me about it. Reminds me of those idiots who complain because it's hot in August, global warming is real!

[GostHacked]

Thats besides the point. Anybody can write a book. What you want to look for is scientists in relevant fields, that have performed scientific works and submitted them to scientific journals for peer review.

Apparently those are the ones the IPCC rejected because it does not fit into their model.

Like studies showing that the sun is having the same effect on Mars and Earth in terms of warming. But that is instantly dismissed by the IPCC. Why would they dismiss that? Why would the sun not be relevant to the warming? Just like why would previous ice ages and concurrent warming not be related to the current trend in temperatures rising?

Why is the only aspect of AGW focused on fossil fuel emissions creating CO2 as a cause of warming and discount and dismiss all other sources and possibilities of warming? This is what baffles me.

[GostHacked]

And here is how carbon credits are traded.

http://web.worldbank.org/WBSITE/EXTERNAL/TOPICS/ENVIRONMENT/EXTCARBONFINANCE/0,,menuPK:4125909~pagePK:64168427~piPK:64168435~theSitePK:4125853,00.html

http://siteresources.worldbank.org/INTCARBONFINANCE/Resources/State_and_Trends_2010_final.pdf

Cologne, May 26, 2010—The latest annual report from the World Bank on the global

carbon market showed that in 2009 it grew to $144 billion, up 6% from 2008 despite

enduring its most challenging year to date. The global economic crisis negatively

impacted both demand and supply sides and, as industrial output plummeted, the demand

for carbon assets fell. The State and Trends of the Carbon Market 2010, released today

by the World Bank at Carbon Expo in Cologne, also said that on the supply side, the

reduction in access to capital made it difficult for many project developers to lock in

financing. As a consequence, project origination ground to a halt.

It's nothing but a money grab.

[scribblet]

Of course it's a money grab, always has been about redistribution the wealth of the west, nothing more.