Cancun sun speeds decay of global warming charade

[scribblet]

I had to post this from Rex Murphy, it's a hoot. It is interesting to note that “Japan will not inscribe its target under the Kyoto protocol on any conditions or under any circumstances,” but as Rex say, where better to talk about it in a place were we go to get warmer. LOL

This global-warming/climate-change stuff is a great racket.

http://fullcomment.nationalpost.com/2010/12/04/rex-murphy-cancun-sun-speeds-decay-of-global-warming-charade/

Rex Murphy:

Over in England right now, they’re locked in the jaws of a very early freeze-up. The roads are iced, the plows overworked, and people are angry. But there’s a precious subset of the English population that are not enduring the frigid and premature torments of a northern winter. They’re the climate-change activists, bureaucrats, politicians, puppeteers and NGOs — the class of professional alarmists who’ve been banging on about global warming for close on two decades now. This bunch has exempted itself from the rigors of English November, traded their sackcloth and ashes for sun-wear and tropical breezes.

They’re toasting their pasty, righteous, caterwauling epidermi on the golden hot sands of Cancun, Mexico, flopped out amid the bikinis and barbeques while they attempt to spell out a future of rationing and want for all the rest of us. Flown there on taxpayer or foundation money, meeting up with all their buddies from the bust that was Cophenhagen, the grim, grey priesthood of “sustainable” living are convening in one of the great sybaritic strips of the entire Western world. The monks are in the cathouse.

But hey, if you’re going to do Armageddon — do it in Cancun. The Apocalypse at the All You Can Eat Buffet. Parasailing to Armageddon.

Does not one of the great minds decoding next century’s weather see the brain-splitting contradiction of holding a conference warning of the imminent threat of global warming in a venue that mainly exists because people fly there to get warmer. That’s right, people spend money to fly to Cancun mainly because it’s warmer there, than where they live. In essence, Cancun is what the global warming crowd are, otherwise, warning us about.

Perhaps at some level of instinct they do know. Perhaps they know that this show of theirs is on its last legs, the jig is up, the great game is over. After the unsuccessful 2009 Copenhagen conference, they had to have realized that even Al Gore and all Al Gores’ grim little men would never be able to put the whole rickety, tendentious machine back together again. After Copenhagen, and especially after Climategate, even the true believers must have lost heart. Witness this year’s confabulation. Notice who’s not there?

Last year, even the Golden One, Barack Obama, swept dramatically into Denmark. It was the venue for all the A-list politicians. Prime Ministers and Presidents were everywhere. This year, the world’s leaders have stayed away. Even the press, whose Cancun presence is down considerably compared to Copenhangen, smells the decay of a cause.

Some countries have made it clear that they no longer are even pretending to play the global-warming abatement game. “Japan will not inscribe its target under the Kyoto protocol on any conditions or under any circumstances,” declared Jun Arima, deputy director-general for environmental affairs at Japan’s Ministry of Economy, Trade and Industry. Given that his was the country where the Kyoto Protocol was signed, it’s a powerful blow to the Gore-ish forces. Perhaps Japan will get one of those cute Fossil of the Day Awards that Canada so excels at collecting.

[Smallc]

Does he not understand that what he's talking about in the UK is part of the overall warming of the globe?

[Shady]

Apparently the attendees of the Climate Change summit in Cancun, prayed to a Mayan goddess on the opening day of the event. Nothing says science like praying to ancient Mayan gods at a scientific themed summit.

[Michael Hardner]

I've read a few of these articles, which amount to gloating that the world has ignored the fact that the earth is warming overall. It's supremely cynical, considering that this article and the other one I read don't deny that warming is happening.

[nicky10013]

Does he not understand that what he's talking about in the UK is part of the overall warming of the globe?

Nope. Nor do idiots realize that a particular weather event doesn't make or break a theory on climate. Climate is a very long term look at global shifts in weather. Just because the globe is warming doesn't mean winter will disappear. Indeed, as you mentioned, it'll cause severe weather to become worse. Inclusing snowstorms.

[Topaz]

The Tory government is staying on course in there job to get rid of Kyoto. I heard on the news, but I can't find it online as yet, that Russia, Canada and others voted down the Accord. Why? The same reason. IF China and India and the US are not on board than it can`t going to work. I believe the reason is that they don`t want to damage the oil and gas industry in Canada, or families connected to that industry. They also don`t HOW to fix it if they did want to, just like all the rest, its a mess, whatever they touch. The provinces should take this on and some are and forget about the useless Feds.

[Sir Bandelot]

What happens when you take a glass full of ise cubes, and pour in some warm water? The ice melts. At the same time, the water gets colder. Seems simple enough.

[TimG]

What happens when you take a glass full of ice cubes, and pour in some warm water? The ice melts. At the same time, the water gets colder. Seems simple enough.

Only makes sense if the volume of ice is comparable to the volume of water. Try dropping an ice cube into a swimming pool. You would not be able to measure the temperature drop.

It is cooling now because the earth goes through large natural climate shifts that can last decades. The argument is these natural shifts are overpowering the warming effect but that is an after the fact rationalization. If these natural swings are large enough to over power the CO2 effect then they could have been the cause of the warming in the first place.

Edited December 6, 2010 by TimG

[Smallc]

Except that the earth is not cooling. This will be one of the hottest years on record, and Canada's hottest.

[jbg]

Does he not understand that what he's talking about in the UK is part of the overall warming of the globe?

Climate and weather fluctuates. It's a cycle, not a trend. Get used to it.

[jbg]

Nope. Nor do idiots realize that a particular weather event doesn't make or break a theory on climate. Climate is a very long term look at global shifts in weather. Just because the globe is warming doesn't mean winter will disappear. Indeed, as you mentioned, it'll cause severe weather to become worse. Inclusing snowstorms.

It happens that snow in UK corresponds to warmth in the Arctic. Both have to be looked at but I believe this relates to a North Atlantic Oscillation cycle, not human activity.

[Smallc]

Climate and weather fluctuates. It's a cycle, not a trend. Get used to it.

Yes on the first thing, but on the second, that's not what climate scientists say.

[Smallc]

It happens that snow in UK corresponds to warmth in the Arctic. Both have to be looked at but I believe this relates to a North Atlantic Oscillation cycle, not human activity.

The cycles of the oceans are affected by many things, including human activity.

[jbg]

The cycles of the oceans are affected by many things, including human activity.

You're saying human activity affects ENSO and NAO cycles?

[Smallc]

You're saying human activity affects ENSO and NAO cycles?

Because we're having an affect on the overall system, a system that is very interconnected, yes.

[jbg]

Because we're having an affect on the overall system, a system that is very interconnected, yes.

Given the sheer size of the ocean bodies affected by those cycles that idea is not even plausible.

[Smallc]

Given the sheer size of the ocean bodies affected by those cycles that idea is not even plausible.

Oh but it is. The change does not have to be large to be meaningful. That's the whole point of the worry over global warming.

[Guest TrueMetis]

Only makes sense if the volume of ice is comparable to the volume of water. Try dropping an ice cube into a swimming pool. You would not be able to measure the temperature drop.

It is cooling now because the earth goes through large natural climate shifts that can last decades. The argument is these natural shifts are overpowering the warming effect but that is an after the fact rationalization. If these natural swings are large enough to over power the CO2 effect then they could have been the cause of the warming in the first place.

Not quite we are in a La Nina so the earth should be cooling, but it's not 2000-2009 was the warmest decade on record with 2005 being the warmest year and 1998, 2002, 2003, 2006, 2007 and 2009 all tied for second place. My link At most it has been stable, once the La Nina ends I'm anticipating a sharp rise in temperatures.

Now onto another matter, at what point is it okay to hit someone who makes the climate=weather fallacy?

Edited December 6, 2010 by TrueMetis

[waldo]

Now onto another matter, at what point is it okay to hit someone who makes the climate=weather fallacy?

of course... it's something Rex Murphy regularly does - which plays well to the mouth-breathers that trot out his climate change related drivel. Setting aside Murphy's improper conflation of weather/climate, he's hot-to-trot over this years (COP) conference location... Cancun, Mexico. Of course, Murphy ignores the salient fact that the annual COP conferences are held at the behest of inviting host countries - and that conference locations regularly shift across the world... why, I do believe I've read something about the global implications of climate change! Murphy should address his fake outrage over location choice directly to the Mexican government. Perhaps the Mexican government had a desire to showcase the symbolic climate change impacts Cancun has been, uhhh... weathering!

Cancun's eroding white sand beaches are providing a note of urgency to the climate talks being held just south of this seaside resort famed for its postcard-perfect vistas.

Rising sea levels and a series of unusually powerful hurricanes have aggravated the folly of building a tourist destination atop shifting sand dunes on a narrow peninsula. After the big storms hit, the bad ideas were laid bare: Much of Cancun's glittering hotel strip is now without a beach.

Four category 4 and 5 hurricanes have hit Mexico in the past decade, the highest rate in 40 years and equal to all those in the preceding three decades, according to Mexico's National Meteorological Service. Many scientists blame such extreme weather patterns on climate change.

The coastline erosion was worsened by a rise in sea level, which has grown at a rate of about 2.2 millimeters a year.

Murphy's reference to Kyoto just highlights his complete ignorance - Japan is quite rightly exercising it's weight by pressing the point that without the U.S. signatory to the Kyoto Protocol, with countries like Canada ignoring it's Kyoto commitments, with major countries missing from the protocol's mandatory reductions (like China, India)... it makes no sense to attempt to extend the current Kyoto format/protocol. Hence the Copenhagen Accord and some attempts at this years conference to bridge the Kyoto Protocol with the Copenhagen Accord with, of course, attempts beyond voluntary commitments.

[Michael Hardner]

Given the sheer size of the ocean bodies affected by those cycles that idea is not even plausible.

Come on, jbg, do you seriously think climate science missed this ?

[Shady]

That's the whole point of the worry over global warming.

No. The whole point of the worry is political and economic.

[Wild Bill]

Only makes sense if the volume of ice is comparable to the volume of water. Try dropping an ice cube into a swimming pool. You would not be able to measure the temperature drop.

It is cooling now because the earth goes through large natural climate shifts that can last decades. The argument is these natural shifts are overpowering the warming effect but that is an after the fact rationalization. If these natural swings are large enough to over power the CO2 effect then they could have been the cause of the warming in the first place.

Have you noticed what the "other guys" seem to believe, Tim? Apparently, observations during a short time span are not an indication that there is no global warming. However, those same observations are used to show that there IS!

Tie always goes to the global warming premise! It's as if this is accepted as an article of faith. You can drag out as many contrary points as you want and you won't change any of their minds. If we have a warm summer, it's proof of global warming. Or a cold summer, for that matter. Or anything in between.

What's more, it's not a natural cycle! It HAS to be all Man's fault! Listen up for just a little longer and you'll then hear that the only way to solve the problem is for us guilt-ridden western countries to tax ourselves to death so that we can give buckets of money to third world countries.

This reasoning is accepted as scientific. Any contrary view is considered heresy. Any contrary evidence that is especially strong is ignored, such as when the number of seals or polar bears in an area is noted as far higher than normal by the people who have lived there for centuries, contrary to the result expected from global warming. Or when we are told that because of global warming we are going to be hit with far more vicious hurricanes and then they don't show up, at least not in anywhere the predicted numbers. Islands claim that rising sea levels are going to swamp them out. When someone does an aerial survey they quickly see that it simply isn't true. Yet all the inhabitants believe that the sea level is getting higher and higher!

Of course, about that time we find out that they are asking for our money...

It is faith, not science. Not surprising, when most of the people who believe in man-made global warming are not science people. They are just ordinary citizens who have been trained to accept whatever is spoken by someone in a white lab coat. They believe not because they truly understand but because of faith in the number and appearance of global warming spokespeople.

Most of them are too young to remember the 70's. Those of us who lived through it likely remember that we were told that man's use of aerosols and wanton polluting of the planet was about to plunge us into an Ice Age. It was just as popular a view as man-made GW is today.

There ARE proponents of GW that are indeed scientific, of course! No generalization is ever absolute. Yet they accept the support of all the unscientific "common" people as somehow adding to the validity of their belief. This is the "Delphic" method, not the scientific method! Five million flies can't be wrong so dig in! The reality is that it doesn't matter if the entire earth believes something or no one does. A fact either is true or it isn't. The Universe simply doesn't care if Mankind is right or wrong.

A = A no matter what Al Gore believes. Over the years I've grown weary of even listening to the "doom sayers". I've heard too much of the same old hidden political agendas and outright lies! Too many of these folks are so righteous in their beliefs that they think it's ok to misrepresent evidence, since they think their cause is so right and so important that "that the end justifies the means".

Again, there are exceptions! I'm just saying that we need more Richard Feynmans and fewer David Suzukis!

Before the flames start, some of you folks might appreciate this site:

http://www.solarcycle24.com/

It has a message board where some folks have been debating this issue for a long time. It has members posting from all over the world. It's nice when you read a claim that Baltic sea ice is disappearing you can read a post from someone who lives there and can look out his own window to give you a report! Some pretty eminent scientists contribute as well. Not that the initials after their names guarantee they are right but they do tend to argue with more educated credibility, on both sides of the issue.

Edited December 6, 2010 by Wild Bill

[Smallc]

No. The whole point of the worry is political and economic.

It's a conspiracy I tell ya.

[GostHacked]

I've read a few of these articles, which amount to gloating that the world has ignored the fact that the earth is warming overall. It's supremely cynical, considering that this article and the other one I read don't deny that warming is happening.

Well in this day of telecommuting/Internet conferences, why can't these leaders set things up that way? I am sure these heavy carbon producing summits are hypocritical in the sense, that emissions need to be cut. How much Co2 is put into the air overall from these summits and having leaders from all over the world fly there? If they are that concerned about AGW, why are they not leading instead of just saying what everyone else needs to do? Let them put their money where their mouth is.

They need to lead and set the example and prove to us they are serious.

[Smallc]

It's been scientifically proven that face to face meetings get much more accomplished than other means.