Ford era begins in Toronto

[Black Dog]

Sorry that was a typo.

You know I don't totally be-grudge these people for making good money doing what they do.

But when governments are up against the wall with these budget deficits, the public service unions appear to be completely unwilling to make any concessions. Many in the private sector have made serious concessions.

I don't have a problem with belt-tightening when necessary and when justified. I also think unions should be responsive to the fiscal realities of the day.

The issue I have is so much of the arguments I hear day in and day out about unionized employees are ideological in nature, poorly informed and/or based on anecdotal evidence. That's no way to have a good faith discussion.

[BubberMiley]

Well, if anecdotal evidence is all that's eneded, I have a cousin who retired from his position as an electrician with the province of Manitoba at $57000 a year. My wife's friend's husband works as an electrician in the private sector and made over $140K last year.

It's actually no comparison who gets paid more.

[Boges]

Well, if anecdotal evidence is all that's eneded, I have a cousin who retired from his position as an electrician with the province of Manitoba at $57000 a year. My wife's friend's husband works as an electrician in the private sector and made over $140K last year.

It's actually no comparison who gets paid more.

Trades are a different story. Those are usually always union gigs and they're also pretty recession proof unlike working for an airline or an assembly line for the Big 3.

I've got an HVAC guy coming to do the annual maintenance on my furnace and AC. I'm pretty sure the bill will be easily over $150 for maybe 20 minutes of work.

If I was given a chance to do this life over again, I'd have gotten into a trade from the get go. If I ever get laid off, that's the field I'll go into as well.

Edited September 21, 2011 by Boges

[BubberMiley]

Trades are a different story.

So the professions that are comparable to the private sector are a different story. Professions that have no private sector equivalent are overpaid. Gotcha.

[MiddleClassCentrist]

I know janitors for school boards that make an extremely good living cleaning a school. I'd venture to say they make almost as much, if not more than the teacher.

My wife's friend was applying for a position at a school board. 60k/year secretary.

Way more than a starting teacher makes.

[BubberMiley]

My wife's friend was applying for a position at a school board. 60k/year secretary.

Way more than a starting teacher makes.

Rather than anecdotal friend-of-a-friend information, like I provided about the $140K electrician, I think the real evidence would be, say, looking at what secretaries for school boards in Ontario make.

According to this, it's 21-23 bucks an hour.

Not bad, but only enough to help perpetuate a struggling middle class.

Edited September 22, 2011 by BubberMiley

[Boges]

So the professions that are comparable to the private sector are a different story. Professions that have no private sector equivalent are overpaid. Gotcha.

Well there is a difference.

You have to have some marketable skill and training to be a mechanic, electrician, plumber, gas fitter, etc.

The pick up garbage, sell liqour, collect tokens and answer phones you sorta don't.

[Shwa]

You know I don't totally be-grudge these people for making good money doing what they do.

Not totally, but somewhat right? Because it appears that way. Either that or you totally be-grudge the fact that you didn't get into the trades.

But when governments are up against the wall with these budget deficits, the public service unions appear to be completely unwilling to make any concessions. Many in the private sector have made serious concessions.

Ignoring the fact that often - very often - those members of the public service union have first hand knowledge of whether or not the "governments are up against the wall" or are being hosed by a public communication campaign aimed towards the more doltish in our society. Like, that never has happened has it?

The problem is that a private sector company has a finite source of income. In theory the public sector has an unlimited source of revenue. But you've probably heard this argument already.

Really? The public sector "has an unlimited source of revenue?" Unlimted? Cite please.

[Black Dog]

Well there is a difference.

You have to have some marketable skill and training to be a mechanic, electrician, plumber, gas fitter, etc.

The pick up garbage, sell liqour, collect tokens and answer phones you sorta don't.

So how about providing a comparison between comparable unskilled positions in both sectors? I'm betting the majority of LCBO cashiers (mostly part time or casual positions) make about what their compatriots at the GAP do. The higher union salaries are likely seen in the senior and management positions. I could be wrong, but I doubt it.

[Black Dog]

This week in Fordtopia

Ford's Port Lands plans scuppered

There was no talk of Ferris wheels or megamalls – just consensus – as city council gave unanimous support Wednesday to the existing plans for revitalizing the 180 hectares at the mouth of the Don River under a new agreement designed to foster collaboration and speed development.

Ford cuts off...for now

Mayor Rob Ford has talked the talk on the need for budget cuts. He declined to walk the walk when he had the opportunity on Tuesday morning.

In a significant concession to public opposition and to queasy council allies, Ford voted at the end of a 20-hour executive committee meeting to reject some proposed cuts and to put off decisions on almost all of the others to the 2012 budget process, which begins in November and ends in mid-January.

[mentalfloss]

And so, the Ford era in Toronto ended that day.

Weeping taxpayers paid their due respects to a nation (a Ford nation) that persevered through the good times and the bad times of his 10 month term.

Edited September 22, 2011 by mentalfloss

[treehugger]

And so, the Ford era in Toronto ended that day.

Weeping taxpayers paid their due respects to a nation (a Ford nation) that persevered through the good times and the bad times of his 10 month term.

Mayor Fords popularity is at 62%. tell me one other politician that ever came close.

[treehugger]

Ford will cut spending - cut services - and trim off the fat - BUT your taxes will not decrease - which means all these savings will be handed over to some rich guys..who will leverage public funds in order to get richer - Ford is a Bay Street weasil and a lap dog of the big dogs - so was Miller - Like I said ----You would imagine that with the cutting of services that our tax bills should logically decrease - this is not going to happen - mark my word.

Of course taxes won't decrease, do you know of any large city where their taxes are decreasing? Whose the rich guys that will get the money? The city is taking cuts in order to pay of a debt that hasn't been touched for many yeras and is just getting bigger. Just like your made up stories they just keep on getting bigger!

[guyser]

This week in Fordtopia

Geebus BD, arent you swelling with pride that the Mayor and his council have found $30m in cuts this week?. Whew, little more work to find the rest of the $670 M . (even though no one can figure out where that number came from)

[guyser]

Whose the rich guys that will get the money?

I dont know, the City of Toronto is a "rich guy" ?

The city is taking cuts in order to pay of a debt that hasn't been touched for many yeras and is just getting bigger. Just like your made up stories they just keep on getting bigger!

Speaking of made up...<cough cough> you are aware the city has posted a balanced budget going back through the years?

Should I mention the surplus Mayor Wobby inherited?

Less treehugging, more scholasticshugging.

[Black Dog]

Mayor Fords popularity is at 62%. tell me one other politician that ever came close.

Cite?

The city is taking cuts in order to pay of a debt that hasn't been touched for many yeras and is just getting bigger.

It's not the debt that's at issue here, but the deficit.

Geebus BD, arent you swelling with pride that the Mayor and his council have found $30m in cuts this week?. Whew, little more work to find the rest of the $670 M . (even though no one can figure out where that number came from)

What comes after "farce"?

[guyser]

What comes after "farce"?

More donuts probably.

[charter.rights]

Cite?

TH is full of it.

The Forum Research survey of 1,046 Torontonians conducted Monday after the release of city manager Joe Pennachetti’s recommended budget cuts, pegs Ford’s support at 42 per cent — a big drop from 57 per cent on June 1, and 60 per cent in late February.

Toronto Star: Ford support plummeting, poll suggests

From the article it is clear that even a number of his remaining supporters disapprove of his actions.

Edited September 28, 2011 by charter.rights

[Oleg Bach]

My wife's friend was applying for a position at a school board. 60k/year secretary.

Way more than a starting teacher makes.

My sister in law teaches French but can not speak it.

[Oleg Bach]

Ford is very bloated and does not need to drink gravy - It amazes me that Ford who is reported to be a vegatarian...is so damend fat - what does he drink after lunch........could it be an olive oil milk shake.

[Boges]

Ford is very bloated and does not need to drink gravy - It amazes me that Ford who is reported to be a vegatarian...is so damend fat - what does he drink after lunch........could it be an olive oil milk shake.

I think it's Dougie that's the veggietarian.

[Black Dog]

I think it's Dougie that's the veggietarian.

Amazing that someone who eats only vegetables can generate so much bullshit.

[Shwa]

Amazing that someone who eats only vegetables can generate so much bullshit.

Makes perfect sense, bulls are herbivores too.

[Oleg Bach]

Amazing that someone who eats only vegetables can generate so much bullshit.

Bulls are vegans.

[Boges]

Bulls are vegans.

And vegans are bullshit.