Ford era begins in Toronto

[guyser]

So what? That just means you're carrying a higher mortgage. It doesn't mean you're making more money. The guy trying to pay for my house in Toronto whose carrying a mortgage twice the size of mine is finding it more difficult to pay it as it is. Slapping on ever higher taxes is just going to make it tougher.

In most cases, immaterial.

Tax assesment times the mill rate is the only consideration. All the surrounding cities in the GTA have much higher rates.

Lets look at it, Markham, which is next door, a million dollar house pays a mill of 0.786 = $ 7860

.................Oshawa.....................................................mill of 1.511 = $15110

Toronto home at $1M.........................................................mill of 0.611 = $ 6110

The Oshawa house pays more than twice as TO, Markham considerably more.

I do not agree it is slapping on, but rather refelcting reality and in that we need to increase it.

Of course it will be hard for some people in this city, no doubt, but it is and should be expensive to live here. With that tax rate adjusted, we keep all we have and improve our infrastructure.

Edited September 16, 2011 by guyser

[mentalfloss]

So, Ford Nation took a huge nosedive today..

Massive poll shows Toronto is united against Ford’s proposed cuts

One of the biggest polls ever conducted in Toronto shows residents from every corner of the city are overwhelmingly against Mayor Rob Ford’s cuts.

From Doug Ford’s ward in Etobicoke to budget chief Mike Del Grande’s in Scarborough, the results will serve as a sobering warning to councillors within the Ford voting bloc.

A Forum Research telephone survey of nearly 13,000 people reveals that more than three-quarters of Torontonians want their local councillor to protect services rather than comply with the mayor’s wishes. And only 27 per cent of residents say they would vote for Rob Ford if an election was held tomorrow.

More significantly, because of the poll’s size, Forum was able to provide the first authoritative assessment of support on a ward-by-ward level.

Forum’s poll, which was paid for by CUPE Local 79, one of two major unions at city hall, questioned 12,848 Toronto residents on Tuesday using a random dial, push-button response, phoning system. The margin of error is plus or minus 0.9 per cent, 19 out 20 times.

Some of the strongest opposition to the current direction at city hall is in the wards of executive committee members.

For example, in Cesar Palacio’s Davenport region, 81.2 per cent of residents want him to fight Ford on cuts. In Willowdale, 82.9 per cent of David Shiner’s constituents are against cutting services.

With a “mushy middle” of councillors emboldened by Ford’s sinking approval, losing even a handful of those previously locked-down votes could tip the scales at council against Ford.

“He’s asking these councillors to put their careers on the line,” said Forum president Lorne Bozinoff. “These councillors are potentially exposing themselves and their careers to challenge in three years from someone who comes along and says: ‘Vote for me, I’ll restore those cutbacks.’”

As for Ford’s low approval rating, Bozinoff said one theory is that the mayor is embarking on typical political strategy: get the controversial stuff out of the way fast, allowing enough time for the numbers to rebound by the next election.

“But in this case, his numbers are already low and we’re just talking about cutting services,” he said. “This is not likely to improve for him when he actually carries out some of this stuff. . . I think if the cutbacks are really of the magnitude (being discussed) it could hit him even harder.”

Ford was elected by a landslide last October and — bolstered by the popularity of his “Stop the Gravy Train” message — the mayor has enjoyed a slim but solid majority on council.

A number of councillors within the Ford fold, most of who have been rewarded with high-profile positions on committees or boards, have quietly grumbled over the administration’s constant vote-whipping, intimidation tactics and procedural trickery.

Despite the unrest, Ford’s uncompromising leadership style had been able to keep his supporters in check. Even mushy middle councillors have so far sided with Ford on controversial votes.

But as anger continues to swell over the Pride snub, KPMG consultants, Margaret Atwood fiasco, waterfront power grab and most recently, proposed cuts to libraries, daycares and Riverdale Farm, some councillors have felt emboldened to speak out.

Most recently, Councillor Jaye Robinson (Ward 25 Don Valley West), a member of Ford’s executive, publicly announced she would not support the administration’s waterfront plan.

TTC chair Karen Stintz has been distancing herself from the administration in the past few months and was one of the first to speak out against library cuts. On Thursday, she revealed she would also vote against the mayor on his waterfront plans.

The show of defiance has had many at city hall questioning Stintz’s political future. But if the Forum poll is any indication, Stintz had already sensed the changing political winds.

George Smitherman edged out Ford in Stinz’s Eglinton-Lawrence ward last October. Today, 52.4 per cent of residents say their opinion of the mayor has worsened since the election, 76.6 per cent want Stintz to fight service cuts and 65.4 per cent said they would not elect Ford for a second term.

The Questions

Respondents were asked the following questions:

How has your opinion of Mayor Ford changed since the election? Improved: 17%; Hasn’t changed: 29%; Grown worse: 54%.

If an election was held tomorrow, would you vote for Rob Ford for mayor? Yes: 27%; No: 60%; Don’t know: 13%.

How much do you agree that your councillor should vote in the interests of protecting city services in your community, even if it conflicts with the wishes of Mayor Ford? Overall agree: 77% (59% say they “strongly agree” and 18% say they “agree”. Overall disagree: 14% (“strongly disagree, 5%; disagree 9%). Don’t know: 9%.

Note: the Star combined “agree” and “strongly agree” answers for the purposes of this article.

http://www.thestar.com/news/torontocouncil/article/1054837--massive-poll-shows-toronto-is-united-against-ford-s-proposed-cuts?bn=1

Edited September 16, 2011 by mentalfloss

[Boges]

Forum’s poll, which was paid for by CUPE Local 79, one of two major unions at city hall, questioned 12,848 Toronto residents on Tuesday using a random dial, push-button response, phoning system. The margin of error is plus or minus 0.9 per cent, 19 out 20 times.

[Argus]

Yeah, sounds like a push poll.

[Boges]

Hello sir and/or madame. Press 1 if you if want the poor to die in the streets and the TTC to be abolished tomorrow. Press 2 if you don't.

Edited September 17, 2011 by Boges

[treehugger]

So, Ford Nation took a huge nosedive today..

Massive poll shows Toronto is united against Ford’s proposed cuts

One of the biggest polls ever conducted in Toronto shows residents from every corner of the city are overwhelmingly against Mayor Rob Ford’s cuts.

From Doug Ford’s ward in Etobicoke to budget chief Mike Del Grande’s in Scarborough, the results will serve as a sobering warning to councillors within the Ford voting bloc.

A Forum Research telephone survey of nearly 13,000 people reveals that more than three-quarters of Torontonians want their local councillor to protect services rather than comply with the mayor’s wishes. And only 27 per cent of residents say they would vote for Rob Ford if an election was held tomorrow.

More significantly, because of the poll’s size, Forum was able to provide the first authoritative assessment of support on a ward-by-ward level.

Forum’s poll, which was paid for by CUPE Local 79, one of two major unions at city hall, questioned 12,848 Toronto residents on Tuesday using a random dial, push-button response, phoning system. The margin of error is plus or minus 0.9 per cent, 19 out 20 times.

Some of the strongest opposition to the current direction at city hall is in the wards of executive committee members.

For example, in Cesar Palacio’s Davenport region, 81.2 per cent of residents want him to fight Ford on cuts. In Willowdale, 82.9 per cent of David Shiner’s constituents are against cutting services.

With a “mushy middle” of councillors emboldened by Ford’s sinking approval, losing even a handful of those previously locked-down votes could tip the scales at council against Ford.

“He’s asking these councillors to put their careers on the line,” said Forum president Lorne Bozinoff. “These councillors are potentially exposing themselves and their careers to challenge in three years from someone who comes along and says: ‘Vote for me, I’ll restore those cutbacks.’”

As for Ford’s low approval rating, Bozinoff said one theory is that the mayor is embarking on typical political strategy: get the controversial stuff out of the way fast, allowing enough time for the numbers to rebound by the next election.

“But in this case, his numbers are already low and we’re just talking about cutting services,” he said. “This is not likely to improve for him when he actually carries out some of this stuff. . . I think if the cutbacks are really of the magnitude (being discussed) it could hit him even harder.”

Ford was elected by a landslide last October and — bolstered by the popularity of his “Stop the Gravy Train” message — the mayor has enjoyed a slim but solid majority on council.

A number of councillors within the Ford fold, most of who have been rewarded with high-profile positions on committees or boards, have quietly grumbled over the administration’s constant vote-whipping, intimidation tactics and procedural trickery.

Despite the unrest, Ford’s uncompromising leadership style had been able to keep his supporters in check. Even mushy middle councillors have so far sided with Ford on controversial votes.

But as anger continues to swell over the Pride snub, KPMG consultants, Margaret Atwood fiasco, waterfront power grab and most recently, proposed cuts to libraries, daycares and Riverdale Farm, some councillors have felt emboldened to speak out.

Most recently, Councillor Jaye Robinson (Ward 25 Don Valley West), a member of Ford’s executive, publicly announced she would not support the administration’s waterfront plan.

TTC chair Karen Stintz has been distancing herself from the administration in the past few months and was one of the first to speak out against library cuts. On Thursday, she revealed she would also vote against the mayor on his waterfront plans.

The show of defiance has had many at city hall questioning Stintz’s political future. But if the Forum poll is any indication, Stintz had already sensed the changing political winds.

George Smitherman edged out Ford in Stinz’s Eglinton-Lawrence ward last October. Today, 52.4 per cent of residents say their opinion of the mayor has worsened since the election, 76.6 per cent want Stintz to fight service cuts and 65.4 per cent said they would not elect Ford for a second term.

The Questions

Respondents were asked the following questions:

How has your opinion of Mayor Ford changed since the election? Improved: 17%; Hasn’t changed: 29%; Grown worse: 54%.

If an election was held tomorrow, would you vote for Rob Ford for mayor? Yes: 27%; No: 60%; Don’t know: 13%.

How much do you agree that your councillor should vote in the interests of protecting city services in your community, even if it conflicts with the wishes of Mayor Ford? Overall agree: 77% (59% say they “strongly agree” and 18% say they “agree”. Overall disagree: 14% (“strongly disagree, 5%; disagree 9%). Don’t know: 9%.

Note: the Star combined “agree” and “strongly agree” answers for the purposes of this article.

http://www.thestar.com/news/torontocouncil/article/1054837--massive-poll-shows-toronto-is-united-against-ford-s-proposed-cuts?bn=1

would you expect a different conclusion with a poll that was paid for by a union????

Too much money is going to union wages in Toronto. There needs to be a large tax increase to keep up with it all.

[treehugger]

See being fat is a choice so it's cool. Gay jokes for Smitherman or going after him for his drug problems. Totally offside.

Being fat is not always a choice many times it is medical or genes.Yes he does need to lose a lot of weight but unless you look like a model I'd button it up!

[Boges]

Being fat is not always a choice many times it is medical or genes.Yes he does need to lose a lot of weight but unless you look like a model I'd button it up!

Is there a sarcasm filter on this site?

You didn't get the idea that I was joking?

People in this thread are calling Mayor Ford his Lardness etc. I was just illustrating that calling him calling him fat is fine in his opponents mind but anyone who would even think of making a Gay joke targeted at George Smitherman would have probably been taken to a Human Rights Tribunal.

If I remember correctly, David Miller was pretty chunky when he got elected no one made fun of him then that I ever heard. Michael Moore usually skates on his morbid obesity. What about Al Gore? Bill Clinton was usually revered for his obvious lack of any love of physical fitness. Yet Rush Limbaugh is a fat drug user.

BTW :lol at having another marathon session today having people whining about cuts. If Rob Ford was smart he should only alloy people to speak that have a reasonable alternative to cutting the program they don't want cut.

If you notice people want a tax hike but no one is saying there should be a 10-20% tax hike that would be needed to fund the government without cutting services.

[treehugger]

Is there a sarcasm filter on this site?

You didn't get the idea that I was joking?

People in this thread are calling Mayor Ford his Lardness etc. I was just illustrating that calling him calling him fat is fine in his opponents mind but anyone who would even think of making a Gay joke targeted at George Smitherman would have probably been taken to a Human Rights Tribunal.

If I remember correctly, David Miller was pretty chunky when he got elected no one made fun of him then that I ever heard. Michael Moore usually skates on his morbid obesity. What about Al Gore? Bill Clinton was usually revered for his obvious lack of any love of physical fitness. Yet Rush Limbaugh is a fat drug user.

BTW :lol at having another marathon session today having people whining about cuts. If Rob Ford was smart he should only alloy people to speak that have a reasonable alternative to cutting the program they don't want cut.

If you notice people want a tax hike but no one is saying there should be a 10-20% tax hike that would be needed to fund the government without cutting services.

Ford is well aware of his size and must be tires of peoples "jokes" about his weight.He has tried many many times to lose weight. It is harder to do than quit tobacco I have read that again and again. How would anyone know it was a joke what you said when it was put here as a statement?

When the first meeting was called all of the people who supported him were at work or had other engagments, so only the whiners and union were available as they always seem to be. I understand a tax hike is the last thing he wants to do.The union city workers are sucking all of the money out of the budget among other things.

[Black Dog]

Is there a sarcasm filter on this site?

You didn't get the idea that I was joking?

People in this thread are calling Mayor Ford his Lardness etc. I was just illustrating that calling him calling him fat is fine in his opponents mind but anyone who would even think of making a Gay joke targeted at George Smitherman would have probably been taken to a Human Rights Tribunal.

If I remember correctly, David Miller was pretty chunky when he got elected no one made fun of him then that I ever heard. Michael Moore usually skates on his morbid obesity. What about Al Gore? Bill Clinton was usually revered for his obvious lack of any love of physical fitness. Yet Rush Limbaugh is a fat drug user.

Al of those cats put together might weigh as much as Ford. Dude ain't fat: he's morbidly obese.

BTW :lol at having another marathon session today having people whining about cuts. If Rob Ford was smart he should only alloy people to speak that have a reasonable alternative to cutting the program they don't want cut.

Democracy, conservative style.

If you notice people want a tax hike but no one is saying there should be a 10-20% tax hike that would be needed to fund the government without cutting services.

Where are you getting that number anyway?

[Black Dog]

When the first meeting was called all of the people who supported him were at work or had other engagments, so only the whiners and union were available as they always seem to be.

From Doug's mouth to your ear, eh?

Councillor Ford also blamed city unions and the “same usual suspects” for orchestrating the vast majority of outrage voiced during committee meetings by people opposing consultants’ cost-cutting suggestions. Asked why ‘Ford Nation’ does not show up to voice its opinion, the councillor said: “Ford Nation is too busy working, paying taxes, creating jobs. That’s what they’re doing.”

I understand a tax hike is the last thing he wants to do.The union city workers are sucking all of the money out of the budget among other things.

Yeah? How much, exactly, are the "union workers" sucking out? Gimme a number.

[Boges]

Yeah? How much, exactly, are the "union workers" sucking out? Gimme a number.

Well I don't really have the time to research the exact numbers of all the departments. But when you consider what a garbage man and a token collector makes in Toronto you'd have to assume cuts can be made.

I do however know that the Police's budget is like 90% salaries and benefits.

You can see CUPE is in total PR spin mode right now. Do you really think they care about the services or they don't want to see members jobs eliminated?

BTW looks like Ford backed off on a lot of the controversial cutbacks last night like the free child care spots cut Libraries and the zoos. He does want to sell off a bunch of city owned properties, which I'd think is OK.

[Boges]

See how meaningless opinion polls are.

TORONTO – Exclusive new poll numbers reveal Mayor Rob Ford still has the support of six in ten Torontonians, but his approach is increasingly polarizing.

According to an Ipsos Reid poll conducted for Global News, 62 per cent approve of Ford’s performance, down 8 points from April.

And while the drop in overall support isn’t overwhelming, the conviction of those polled does appear to be waning. Only 15 per cent ‘strongly approve’ of the mayor, a drop of 16 points from 6 months ago.

And when asked if Ford has been ‘a big disappointment’, nearly half of respondents (46%) agreed ‘strongly’ or ‘somewhat’.

The mayor reacted to the new figures on Monday during a break from the city’s executive committee meeting.

“The only poll that matters is at election time,” Ford says.

Darrell Bricker of Ipsos Reid says the drop in support is not unexpected, given the city is dealing with a massive deficit and potential service cuts.

Read it on Global News: Global News | Majority still approve of Rob Ford but strength of support is falling: new poll

It's just a tool for news organizations to be able to tell people what they think.

So what is it? 40% or 60%? Either way Prez Obama would kill for Rob Ford's numbers.

[Black Dog]

Well I don't really have the time to research the exact numbers of all the departments. But when you consider what a garbage man and a token collector makes in Toronto you'd have to assume cuts can be made.

Why? What do they make and why is it outrageous?

You can see CUPE is in total PR spin mode right now. Do you really think they care about the services or they don't want to see members jobs eliminated?

Yes, damn them for wanting to keep people employed.

BTW looks like Ford backed off on a lot of the controversial cutbacks last night like the free child care spots cut Libraries and the zoos.

Yeah they punted.

He does want to sell off a bunch of city owned properties, which I'd think is OK.

Maybe. I don't think one-time sell offs of city assets are the answer to the structural issues.

[Boges]

It will if those places the city owns operates at a loss. You'll get a one time boost but you won't have to worry about paying for a money-losing operation.

You may not mind it, but people who sit in a booth and make at least $60,000/year tax payer money kind of rubs people the wrong way. Sure in a lefties world everyone should make a livable wage but that's not the world we live in.

So this guy makes more than I make a year in Overtime!!!

http://news.nationalpost.com/2011/09/19/staffers-cost-ttc-1-6-million-in-overtime/

Call it jealousy if you'd like but it's not like these gumint jobs fund themselves.

I know janitors for school boards that make an extremely good living cleaning a school. I'd venture to say they make almost as much, if not more than the teacher.

[Boges]

It will if those places the city owns operates at a loss. You'll get a one time boost but you won't have to worry about paying for a money-losing operation.

You may not mind it, but people who sit in a booth and make at least $60,000/year tax payer money kind of rubs people the wrong way. Sure in a lefties world everyone should make a livable wage but that's not the world we live in.

So this guy makes more than I make a year in Overtime!!!

http://news.nationalpost.com/2011/09/19/staffers-cost-ttc-1-6-million-in-overtime/

Call it jealousy if you'd like but it's not like these gumint jobs fund themselves.

I know janitors for school boards that make an extremely good living cleaning a school. I'd venture to say they make almost as much, if not more than the teacher.

[Black Dog]

You may not mind it, but people who sit in a booth and make at least $60,000/year tax payer money kind of rubs people the wrong way.

Well, they are welcome to apply for the job themselves and get a piece of the action. Most won't because it's a shitty gig. Long hours, crummy conditions, dealing with asshole customers all day.

Is $60K a year even a lot of money for a senior employee these days? That's an entry level salary for an accountant or IT professional in the private sector.

Sure in a lefties world everyone should make a livable wage but that's not the world we live in.

I guess I'm not one of those people who looks at other people who are doing well and wants them dragged down.

So this guy makes more than I make a year in Overtime!!!

http://news.nationalpost.com/2011/09/19/staffers-cost-ttc-1-6-million-in-overtime/

Call it jealousy if you'd like but it's not like these gumint jobs fund themselves.

So what's an acceptable wage? $40K/year? Minimum wage?

I know janitors for school boards that make an extremely good living cleaning a school. I'd venture to say they make almost as much, if not more than the teacher.

Really? Any numbers for that?

[Boges]

Well, they are welcome to apply for the job themselves and get a piece of the action. Most won't because it's a shitty gig. Long hours, crummy conditions, dealing with asshole customers all day.

This is simply not true. Many people would do these jobs. With any union jobs it's who you know, not what you know. And with the public backlash about jobs like these I see new public service jobs becoming rarer and rarer.

So what's an acceptable wage? $40K/year? Minimum wage?

For certain jobs yes. I can't say what an acceptable wage is.

People make due with less than $50,000/year family income and they have kids to boot. People who make $100,000+/year are hopelessly in debt.

What gets people's back up about what public service make is that, without fail, comparable work in the private sector is paid far less. Call it envy if you want.

Edited September 20, 2011 by Boges

[Boges]

And BTW it's not just Unions.

I'm sure there are plenty middle-management on the City of Toronto payroll that do very little work and get paid very well for it.

Apparently 250 Non-Union TTC employees got walking papers yesterday.

[Michael Hardner]

We can benchmark what these groups are doing, and compare it to private sector to see if there are indeed gross inefficiencies. We can also then use that benchmark in future to monitor escalating costs.

Neither management, nor the unions, nor the politicians has any actual will to do this as it shines light and reduces their ability to interpret the truth for us.

[Oleg Bach]

Ford will cut spending - cut services - and trim off the fat - BUT your taxes will not decrease - which means all these savings will be handed over to some rich guys..who will leverage public funds in order to get richer - Ford is a Bay Street weasil and a lap dog of the big dogs - so was Miller - Like I said ----You would imagine that with the cutting of services that our tax bills should logically decrease - this is not going to happen - mark my word.

[Black Dog]

This is simply not true. Many people would do these jobs. With any union jobs it's who you know, not what you know. And with the public backlash about jobs like these I see new public service jobs becoming rarer and rarer.

Yeah, I'm sure lots of people would be happy to spend years and years driving a bus or streetcar (including night shifts, weekends and long hours) to work their way up the ladder to one day sit in a grubby box underground to make what is really a middle-class income.

For certain jobs yes. I can't say what an acceptable wage is.

People make due with less than $50,000/year family income and they have kids to boot. People who make $100,000+/year are hopelessly in debt.

What gets people's back up about what public service make is that, without fail, comparable work in the private sector is paid far less.

No, people think that the private sector is paid far less, thanks in part to people like you who beat the drum of union profligacy. I doubt most people could even hazard a guess as to what a comparable position in the private sector (if there are any such examples) is. If you can do that, I'd love to see it.

[Boges]

Yeah, I'm sure lots of people would be happy to spend years and years driving a bus or streetcar (including night shifts, weekends and long hours) to work their way up the ladder to one day sit in a grubby box underground to make what is really a middle-class income.

No, people think that the private sector is paid far less, thanks in part to people like you who beat the drum of union profligacy. I doubt most people could even hazard a guess as to what a comparable position in the private sector (if there are any such examples) is. If you can do that, I'd love to see it.

It's not the city of Toronto but here's an example.

Do you think a cashier at the Gap or Food Basics makes a comparable wage to someone at the LCBO? It's a comparable job.

Why do you think outsourcing of garbage pick-up is all the rage nowadays? Cuz it's cheaper, they don't make as much. It's still a decent job but nowhere near as lucrative.

And yes I think if you don't have any other marketable skills other than riding a bus, working for the TTC is a good alternative.

[Black Dog]

It's not the city of Toronto but here's an example.

Do you think a cashier at the Gap or Food Basics makes a comparable wage to someone at the LCBO? It's a comparable job.

Full-time? Part time or casual (which I believe the majority of such positions are)? I'd expect they are comparable, or at least not totally out of whack.

Do you know what they make?

Why do you think outsourcing of garbage pick-up is all the rage nowadays? Cuz it's cheaper, they don't make as much. It's still a decent job but nowhere near as lucrative.

It's not always cheaper. Edmonton, for example, has private collection and it's the most expensive system in the country. Toronto's heavily unionized garbage collection system is actually cheaper on a per tonne basis than in surrounding municipalities where its privatized.

And yes I think if you don't have any other marketable skills other than riding a bus, working for the TTC is a good alternative.

So riding the bus and driving a bus are the same thing in your book?

[Boges]

So riding the bus and driving a bus are the same thing in your book?

Sorry that was a typo.

You know I don't totally be-grudge these people for making good money doing what they do.

But when governments are up against the wall with these budget deficits, the public service unions appear to be completely unwilling to make any concessions. Many in the private sector have made serious concessions.

The problem is that a private sector company has a finite source of income. In theory the public sector has an unlimited source of revenue. But you've probably heard this argument already.