Ford era begins in Toronto

[Black Dog]

His Hugeness's first order of business? Scrap the light rail transit plan that the city has already spent millions on for a subway that would cost at least four times as much and go half the distance.

Respect for taxpayers indeed.

[Shady]

I have to agree with Ford. A subway is a better way to go. It's faster, more efficient, and relieves traffic congestion from the streets. Way to go Mr. Ford!

[Black Dog]

I have to agree with Ford. A subway is a better way to go. It's faster, more efficient, and relieves traffic congestion from the streets. Way to go Mr. Ford!

It's easy to see why you'd have voted for Ford (if you actually lived here). Like him, you lack even a basic understanding of complex issues like city planning.

Edited December 1, 2010 by Black Dog

[Michael Hardner]

These megaprojects shouldn't be able to be canceled so easily. This is why we can't move forward quickly enough. A transit authority with a mandate to confer with the public is needed to continuously plan and move forward, IMO.

[Black Dog]

These megaprojects shouldn't be able to be canceled so easily. This is why we can't move forward quickly enough. A transit authority with a mandate to confer with the public is needed to continuously plan and move forward, IMO.

It seems Ford feels he can make long-term policy by decree.

[M.Dancer]

I didn't vote for Ford but I do not support the Transit City fiasco.

I live on one the the routes. St Clair (pronounced Sinclair by the oldies) is now gridlock from 7AM to 7 PM 5 days of the week and life threatening if on a bike.....we went from 6 lanes of traffic to 4...and north south movement is blocked at all but major intersections and even there, the time wasted allowing u turns....it is a nightmare aned certainly designed by an urban planner with aspergers....

And on top of that, Street Car service has not improved noticeably...

And for this we endured years of contruction and delays.

[Shady]

It's easy to see why you'd have voted for Ford (if you actually lived here). Like him, you lack even a basic understanding of complex issues like city planning.

Actually I do have an understanding of city planning issues. And a larger subway system makes a lot more sense. You're just playing politics with this issue. Still fighting the last battle from the campaign. Just move on, you lost.

[Shady]

These megaprojects shouldn't be able to be canceled so easily.

These megaprojects shouldn't be able to be instituted so easily.

[M.Dancer]

These megaprojects shouldn't be able to be canceled so easily. This is why we can't move forward quickly enough. A transit authority with a mandate to confer with the public is needed to continuously plan and move forward, IMO.

No ground has broken other that the psychosis on St Clair...so no harm done...

[Black Dog]

Actually I do have an understanding of city planning issues. And a larger subway system makes a lot more sense.

As I expected: more empty slogans.

Perhaps you could try making an actual argument for once. You know what that is right? You state a position and back it up with evidence. It's surprisingly easy. You shoudl try it sometime.

You're just playing politics with this issue. Still fighting the last battle from the campaign. Just move on, you lost.

Unlike you, I actually have to live with this moron and his harebrained schemes. So: no.

[Black Dog]

No ground has broken other that the psychosis on St Clair...so no harm done...

Metrolinx, the regional transit agency, has already spent a total of $130-million on preliminary work on Sheppard East LRT ($34.1-million), the Eglinton Crosstown ($41.4-million), the Finch West LRT ($14.4-million) and the Scarborough RT ($39.4-million). In addition, it has signed $1.3-billion in contracts, including the purchase of 182 light-rail vehicles to run on the routes, and four tunnel boring machines.

-source

[Shady]

Perhaps you could try making an actual argument for once.

I did. You apparently just chose to ignore it. Subways are faster, more efficient, and lessen street congestion. Those are facts. Street cars are slower, less efficient and add to an already existing traffic problem. Those are facts. And you're hatred for Rob Ford doesn't change them.

[Smallc]

Street cars

Do you even know what LRT is? A street car can be considered to be ULRT, but not LRT.

Edited December 1, 2010 by Smallc

[M.Dancer]

-source

The tunnel boring machines can still be used...and the currect street cars in use are due to be replaced anyway so they will be used ....even though the new cars probably more expensive and far fancier than we needed.

Doesn't change the fact that Streetcars are the wrong way to go in Toronto...

Edited December 1, 2010 by M.Dancer

[Black Dog]

I did. You apparently just chose to ignore it. Subways are faster, more efficient, and lessen street congestion.

In general, sure. But perhaps you can explain how building a stub line on a suburban route will do FA for road congestion or even the congestion on the current system.

If Ford was talking about building the DRL, you may have a point. But he's not.

Street cars are slower, less efficient and add to an already existing traffic problem. Those are facts.

Boy, you're not really up on this at all, are you?

Stret cars aren't the issue here.

You're out of your element.

[Black Dog]

The tunnel boring machines can still be used...

Doesn't change the fact that Streetcars are the wrong way to go in Toronto...

I expected better of you, Dancer, seeing as how you live here.

[M.Dancer]

Do you even know what LRT is? A street car can be considered to be ULRT, but not LRT.

Funny, they have streetcars in the Queens Quay LRT....in fact, street cars are light rail transport...

When is a Streetcar not a Streetcar?

When the 604 Harbourfront line opened as an LRT on June 22, 1989, (Click here to see the opening ceremonies) it was criticized as a 'toy train'. It was a short line, providing little in the way of commuter value, save for a connection to the Ferry Docks and the antique market. It would have made more sense as part of a longer line running along the waterfront, but that proposal died as soon as the announcement came that the 1996 Summer Olympics would be held in Atlanta. With the Spadina LRT still eight years away from opening, the Harbourfront LRT risked a reputation of a white elephant.

http://transit.toronto.on.ca/streetcar/4107.shtml

[Black Dog]

Funny, they have streetcars in the Queens Quay LRT....in fact, street cars are light rail transport...

Just so we're clear, what's your issue with street cars exactly?

[M.Dancer]

I expected better of you, Dancer, seeing as how you live here.

Yes and I cross St Clair daily. I have endured St Clair. I used to cycle omn St Clair, now I shun it because it is dangerous.

Subways. If they can be funded, they should be built. If then can't be funded, they do nothing until they can.

Edited December 1, 2010 by M.Dancer

[Smallc]

Funny, they have streetcars in the Queens Quay LRT....in fact, street cars are light rail transport...

http://transit.toronto.on.ca/streetcar/4107.shtml

They call it that, but it's really not. Most of the new 'LRT' lines to be built were not to use streetcars.

This is LRT:

http://lrt.daxack.ca/images/eglinton-LRT.jpg

A streetcar is too slow and too small to be real LRT.

[Black Dog]

and the currect street cars in use are due to be replaced anyway so they will be used

Nope.

[M.Dancer]

Just so we're clear, what's your issue with street cars exactly?

1) The service is slow.

2) They are subject to extraordinary delays

3) Because of 1 and 2, they are always crowded

4) They are a traffic impedance

5) They run poorly in winter

6) Tracks are a cycling hazard

...and that's just off the top of my head...

[M.Dancer]

Nope.

So you are saying, the new streetcars that Toronto has ordered, that new tracks had to be laid down?

[M.Dancer]

Nope.

On April 24, 2009, the TTC selected a customized version of Bombardier's Flexity Outlook for the upgrade,[23] with possible use for the Transit City plan as well.

New streetcars will not appear in Toronto until at least 2010, providing that capital funding is secured. In its most recent capital budget on April 2009, there was no solid commitment to fund the purchase of new units from any level of government.[24] As a result, the TTC is facing a shortage of available streetcars. Because the CLRVs are reaching the end of their usable lifespan, they require more frequent repairs, and of the TTC's 248 streetcars, only 186 are available for service, leaving a deficit of almost 10 vehicles in the morning rush hour. The TTC plans to refurbish 132 CLRVs, and perform scheduled mid-life maintenance on all of its ALRVs, however in the meantime the TTC has considered replacing streetcars on Bathurst Street and Kingston Road (routes 502, 503, and 511) with buses during the morning rush hour on a contingency basis, so that they can increase service on busier routes until new vehicles arrive.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toronto_streetcar_system#Next-generation_streetcar

Nothing about new gauges in that article...although it does go on to say that new lines would be standard gauge....which means...the new streetcars Toronto has ordered will be TTC gauge, and the cancelation of transit city will not affect that order..for now.

[Shady]

You gotta admit Black Dog, he really smacked you down there.

Stick to legitimate criticisms of Ford, as there are several. But on this issue, you don't have a leg to stand on.