Before Moving To Canada....

[bush_cheney2004]

From 2004, an American ex-pat gives advice to fellow citizens contemplating a move to Canada....don't.

...As attractive as living here may be in theory, the reality's something else. For me, it's been one of almost daily confrontation with a powerful anti-Americanism that pervades many aspects of life. When I've mentioned this phenomenon to Canadian friends, they've furrowed their brows sympathetically and said, "Yes, Canadian anti-Americanism can be very subtle." My response is, there's nothing subtle about it.

The anti-Americanism I experience generally takes this form: Canadians bring up "the States" or "Americans" to make comparisons or evaluations that mix a kind of smug contempt with a wariness that alternates between the paranoid and the absurd.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A15638-2004Nov26.html

[dizzy]

It sounds like she's surrounded herself with people who, not unlike most of your posts, are filled with smug superiority and two-dimensional views of the others. Sucks to be her, I guess. Why does it surprise her that American comparisons are common here? We live in a small country neighbouring the world's superpower. Europeans and Asians talk about one another all of the time, and that without the clear power disparity.

[Trial-and-Error]

I'm afraid your pen name says it all for many Canadians who villified the regime of Bush-Cheney under which so many horrific deaths and torture took place. If you crossed the border into Canada openly supporting the fascist views of B-C, then do, please, be sufficiently knowledgeable to realize that you're the odd person out here. You probably are best suited living in one of the many, easily identifiable pockets of the U.S. where those twisted views are supported--I would hope that finding such pockets here in Canada would be more difficult.

Many very wonderful, progressive, educated, kind-hearted Canadians have some very wonderful, progressive, educated, kind-hearted American friends. Those from both sides of the border know the difference between like-kind and the ugly--and respond accordingly.

[Shwa]

From 2004, an American ex-pat gives advice to fellow citizens contemplating a move to Canada....don't.

...As attractive as living here may be in theory, the reality's something else. For me, it's been one of almost daily confrontation with a powerful anti-Americanism that pervades many aspects of life. When I've mentioned this phenomenon to Canadian friends, they've furrowed their brows sympathetically and said, "Yes, Canadian anti-Americanism can be very subtle." My response is, there's nothing subtle about it.

The anti-Americanism I experience generally takes this form: Canadians bring up "the States" or "Americans" to make comparisons or evaluations that mix a kind of smug contempt with a wariness that alternates between the paranoid and the absurd.

Serioulsy B-C? You had to go back to 2004? Is this like some sort of anniversary of the article or something?

Funny, despite the story, all these thousands of Yanks continue to come up here and settle in and they have been for a couple hundred years now.

Especially football players, you know, the "huddling masses."

Edited November 14, 2010 by Shwa

[bush_cheney2004]

It sounds like she's surrounded herself with people who, not unlike most of your posts, are filled with smug superiority and two-dimensional views of the others. Sucks to be her, I guess.

Actually, she went to Canada (open minded) for a job in Toronto and was surprised to find those traits in many Canadians. Such views are evident here at MLW as well (in some, not all members).

Why does it surprise her that American comparisons are common here? We live in a small country neighbouring the world's superpower. Europeans and Asians talk about one another all of the time, and that without the clear power disparity.

The same reason it surprises me....the scope and depth of Canadian definition and identity using America as a foil is remarkable.

Edited November 14, 2010 by bush_cheney2004

[bush_cheney2004]

I'm afraid your pen name says it all for many Canadians who villified the regime of Bush-Cheney under which so many horrific deaths and torture took place. If you crossed the border into Canada openly supporting the fascist views of B-C, then do, please, be sufficiently knowledgeable to realize that you're the odd person out here.

Clearly the author had no such views, and did not support the Bush-Cheney "regime". Still, she was met with the same smug behaviour.

You probably are best suited living in one of the many, easily identifiable pockets of the U.S. where those twisted views are supported--I would hope that finding such pockets here in Canada would be more difficult.

I have lived in many parts of America...all well suited for Americans. Many Canadian live there as well.

Many very wonderful, progressive, educated, kind-hearted Canadians have some very wonderful, progressive, educated, kind-hearted American friends. Those from both sides of the border know the difference between like-kind and the ugly--and respond accordingly.

Yet there seems to be much less separation between derision for American policies and its citizens. Canada has its own domestic and foreign policy issues that invite much of the same criticism, but frankly most Americans don't know, don't care, and don't care that they don't know. America does not need Canada to define itself in a positive or negative light.

[bush_cheney2004]

Serioulsy B-C? You had to go back to 2004? Is this like some sort of anniversary of the article or something?

Yes...2004 was a special year!

Funny, despite the story, all these thousands of Yanks continue to come up here and settle in and they have been for a couple hundred years now.

True, but far more Canadians (about 25,000 per year) do so from a country with a much smaller population. They are voting with their cold feet and pocketbooks.

[bloodyminded]

The writer's complaints don't seem at all far-fetched, and there's no reason for Canadians to feel sensitive about it; they should feel a little compassion. And she never claims at all that "all" Canadians act this way. Of course they don't. Her point is that it happens often enough that an ex-pat American could not help but notice it.

Does anyone really, truly, in their hearts, doubt this?

[dizzy]

The writer's complaints don't seem at all far-fetched, and there's no reason for Canadians to feel sensitive about it; they should feel a little compassion. And she never claims at all that "all" Canadians act this way. Of course they don't. Her point is that it happens often enough that an ex-pat American could not help but notice it.

Does anyone really, truly, in their hearts, doubt this?

I certainly don't. Nor do I find it unusual. I've had conversations with people around the world who express a limiting worldview regarding their neighbours.

[dizzy]

Actually, she went to Canada (open minded) for a job in Toronto and was surprised to find those traits in many Canadians. Such views are evident here at MLW as well (in some, not all members).

The same reason it surprises me....the scope and depth of Canadian definition and identity using America as a foil is remarkable.

I don't know anything about her other than what she wrote here, so I don't know that she was open-minded. For reference, I don't consider Michael Moore's views on Canada open-minded. They are just born from different stereotypes. I'm sorry that she was disappointed to learn that canadians are just like everyone else on this planet.

[bush_cheney2004]

I don't know anything about her other than what she wrote here, so I don't know that she was open-minded. For reference, I don't consider Michael Moore's views on Canada open-minded.

I don't consider Michael Moore's view on the United States open minded either!

They are just born from different stereotypes. I'm sorry that she was disappointed to learn that canadians are just like everyone else on this planet.

Indeed....they are no different....despite attempts by some to pretend otherwise.

[Michael Hardner]

The smug Anti-Americanism I experience in Canada is only slightly less noticeable than I perceive in liberal Americans.

Edited November 14, 2010 by Michael Hardner

[wyly]

The smug Anti-Americanism I experience in Canada is only slightly less noticeable than I perceive in liberal Americans.

I've known a few who were very vocal in their disillusionment with the USA, equal to anything that I may have said...and the things they had to say about texans

[M.Dancer]

You have to discount her experience, after all, she is an American and by definition, a bit sheltered and they tend to expect the world to love them because they invented summer...

Secondly, she went to Toronto, we look down our long noses at all foreigners and rightly so....no need for her to feel special, she ain't, in fact if she wants smug contempt from someone in Toronto, she will have to wait her turn like all the other...

And if she really wants to experience some anti americanism, might I suggest Tripoli (both of them) or Mogadishu?

Really, I have no patience for foreigners expecting to be loved simply because...

[M.Dancer]

And that goes double for immigrants from London...I really couldn't give a rats ass if there are 12902 pubs in London that are better than the ones here...of course they are better you pompous twit, they don't have you drinking in them....

[bush_cheney2004]

...Secondly, she went to Toronto, we look down our long noses at all foreigners and rightly so....no need for her to feel special, she ain't, in fact if she wants smug contempt from someone in Toronto, she will have to wait her turn like all the other...

Indeed...the RoC looks down on the GTA in equal measure.

...Really, I have no patience for foreigners expecting to be loved simply because...

Interesting perspective, as this is a value and expectation just for being Canadian!

[guyser]

Indeed...the RoC looks down on the GTA in equal measure.

Thats jealousy, not "looking down"

[dizzy]

You have to discount her experience, after all, she is an American and by definition, a bit sheltered and they tend to expect the world to love them because they invented summer...

Secondly, she went to Toronto, we look down our long noses at all foreigners and rightly so....no need for her to feel special, she ain't, in fact if she wants smug contempt from someone in Toronto, she will have to wait her turn like all the other...

And if she really wants to experience some anti americanism, might I suggest Tripoli (both of them) or Mogadishu?

Really, I have no patience for foreigners expecting to be loved simply because...

hahaha! Try being from Toronto and living in Québec... This is the point, isn't it? People in Sicily hate people from Rome. The French look down on the Brits. People in Mumbai think little of people from Delhi. And it all works equally in the reverse. That's what being neighbours is all about.

[bush_cheney2004]

Thats jealousy, not "looking down"

If you say so...but the mere term "Rest of Canada" speaks volumes.

[GostHacked]

Make sure you bring a toque!!! There is little global warming up here in the Great White North.

[guyser]

If you say so...but the mere term "Rest of Canada" speaks volumes.

As Well is should, Toronto is small in area to the "Rest of Canada"

[wyly]

Make sure you bring a toque!!! There is little global warming up here in the Great White North.

oh global warming is here...I haven't worn my serious winter coat for over ten years,haven't plugged in my truck in 10 year either, it's just not as cold as it used to be...I hear the younger people complain how frigid it is and I'm thinking WTF, we're not even close to how it used to be...

[dre]

From 2004, an American ex-pat gives advice to fellow citizens contemplating a move to Canada....don't.

...As attractive as living here may be in theory, the reality's something else. For me, it's been one of almost daily confrontation with a powerful anti-Americanism that pervades many aspects of life. When I've mentioned this phenomenon to Canadian friends, they've furrowed their brows sympathetically and said, "Yes, Canadian anti-Americanism can be very subtle." My response is, there's nothing subtle about it.

The anti-Americanism I experience generally takes this form: Canadians bring up "the States" or "Americans" to make comparisons or evaluations that mix a kind of smug contempt with a wariness that alternates between the paranoid and the absurd.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A15638-2004Nov26.html

From 2004, an American ex-pat gives advice to fellow citizens contemplating a move to Canada....don't.

For once I gotta agree with BC.

Canada is an increasingly stupid and shitty place to live. Iv been working on a plan to get myself and my family out of here in a reasonable ammount of time... might try NewZealand or Australia, but Im not sure yet.

[guyser]

... might try NewZealand or Australia, but Im not sure yet.

Try all you like. NZ wont let you live their permanently unless your spouse is a citizen.

Aus might be easier, but uh...Australia is for Australians.

But yeah, keep tryin. The over under for your return is 4 yrs.

[dre]

Try all you like. NZ wont let you live their permanently unless your spouse is a citizen.

Aus might be easier, but uh...Australia is for Australians.

But yeah, keep tryin. The over under for your return is 4 yrs.

Its a good point. Its hard to move to some countries and that might limit my options... Im educated though and would be bringing with me my business and substancial money to invest so hopefully that helps.

The over under for your return is 4 yrs.

Ill take that bet.