Ship of Sri Lankan Tamils Arrives in Canada

[mmmfloorpie]

Thank you.

Did you miss this part?

I take it you don't undertsand the ruling. They were denied refugee status and apealled. The ministry was not interested in hearing their appeal. The court ruled they were netitled to an appeal.

This does not preclude sendding them back.

Actually, the link doesn't work but I am familiar with the ruling. I'm not really sure why this case was brought up here.

The reason we are stuck with the Tamils is because Sri Lanka is a moratorium country meaning that we don't deport people there no matter how bad they are (with a few exceptions). There are clauses that terrorists and very serious criminals can be deported despite this, but I can tell you that 99% of the people on those ships probably won't fall into those categories and will therefore be here as long as they want.

Even if the claims are denied, they won't be sent back any time soon as we can't deport them back to the country of origin.

That's why it's so advantageous for people from moratorium countries to do whatever they can to step foot on Canadian soil. Once they get here, we can't do anything!

This is also why I think it's ridiculous that the conservatives are trying to pander to Canadians by saying we need tougher human smuggling laws and etc. The truth is, Canada already has tough laws. Under the Immigration and Refugee Protection Act, a person who knowingly brings a person to Canada without a visa is subject to pretty stiff punishments. For someone that brings over 10 people in, the punishment is up to life imprisonment or a million dollar fine or both. So obviously it's plenty stiff!

There is no law against making a refugee claim and there never will be. That's why the law goes after the smugglers themselves. So I don't really see what making the laws tougher will do.

There are problems with our immigration system and one is that we favour skilled immigrants faaaar too much. The truth is, Canada needs people for ALL jobs, skilled and unskilled. Right now, if you are an unskilled worker, you basically have no chance of being accepted for permanent residence. If you are skilled and get accepted, it's likely you'll only be able to find unskilled work once you get here. Make it a little less biased and you might get more people wanting to go the legal route rather than jump the line.

Another thing is the refugee appeals process as you are discussing now. Currently, the federal courts are responsible for hearing appeals which creates a HUGE log jam and allows people to stay for years and years and build families and lives which makes it that much harder to get them deported. One of the obvious solutions would be to finally establish the Refugee Appeals Division (RAD) which was drafted in the new Immigration and Refugee Protection Act around 2002. It's never actually been put into fruition which is why the federal courts have been left with the appeals.

Ok, that was my whole rant. I've kind of been itching to post on this topic since last Friday!

[August1991]

They're not illegal immigrants. You can't claim refugee status outside of Canada. They arrived, asked permission to come into port, declared their status and will now have to wait to see what comes of their claim.

Nicky, that's wrong. Canadian immigration law uses the UN defintion of a refugee and that requires, as a minimum, that a person be outside their country of nationality.

This boat left Thailand (not Sri Lanka). These Sri Lankans could have walked into the Canadian Embassy in Bangkok and applied as refugees to go to Canada.

I frankly think that we should abandon the UN definition - and require all refugees to make their claim abroad, even in their own country. But not in Canada.

So sending them back to Sri Lanka solves that problem how? Seems to me that letting them in gives them a better chance.

Sending them back to Sri Lanka immediately discourages more poor people taking the risk to travel to Canada by boat.

Sending these 500 back to Sri Lanka may seem inhumane now but it will prevent far greater human misery in the future.

Neither can Canadians leave Canada if they don't have a passport.

You can leave Canada without a passport. The US and Canadian governments have no document checks when leaving either country (rather rare in the world). Of course, whether you can enter another country without a passport is another question. Edited August 22, 2010 by August1991

[August1991]

Actually, the link doesn't work but I am familiar with the ruling. I'm not really sure why this case was brought up here.

The reason we are stuck with the Tamils is because Sri Lanka is a moratorium country meaning that we don't deport people there no matter how bad they are (with a few exceptions).

You're right, and right.

First, the Singh decision meant that the Charter of Rights Section 7 provision that "anyone in Canada" was entitled to "due process" (a clause "progressive" Justice lawyers included in the Charter to protect foreign tourists in Canada in civil suits) also applied to foreigners applying for refugee status.

7. Everyone has the right to life, liberty and security of the person and the right not to be deprived thereof except in accordance with the principles of fundamental justice.

Link

What is "due process"? That's a complicated question but it seems to mean at least one appeal, and the right to an advocate and interpretation.

So, these foreign Tamils once in Canada are entitled to "due process" and so their refugee applications will take months. And as they say, if you throw the dice long enough, you'll eventually get double sixes. In the meantime, what do we do with them? Put them in a hotel? A prison? Both options cost alot of money.

If you are interested, here is one suggestion to overcome this Charter interpretation:

A tie vote at the Supreme Court 25 years ago doomed us to accept the ship of 490 Tamils that arrived in Victoria last week.

In a 1985 case called Singh v. Minister of Employment and Immigration, the court ruled that our Charter of Rights applied to foreigners, not just Canadian citizens.

Ezra Levant

Second, FloorPie, you are right to mention the "moratorium country". But the government could "easily" reverse this definition, if it wanted. For the moment however, it hasn't. So, if bureaucrats determine that any one of these 500 Sri Lankan Tamils is inadmissible, not a refugee or whatever, they will stay nonetheless. Even if you're a thieving, murdering, terrorist, drug-dealing pimp, the government won't deport you to Sri Lanka. (Of course, it will charge you and put you in a Canadian prison if you commit an offense in Canada. Or issue a Security Certificate and hold you.)

Edited August 22, 2010 by August1991

[msdogfood]

All of you remember we can not just send them back!!!!.

See http://www.mapleleafweb.com/forums//index.php?showtopic=16927&view=findpost&p=571029

This is why the link will not work!!

The servers and systems that normally host this Web site are currently being moved between two locations. The move will last through the week-end. We expect to be back online by the end of the day sunday. We apologize for any inconvenience this may cause.

Les serveurs et systèmes qui servent normalement à la diffusion de ce site Web sont présentement en cours de déménagement. Le déménagement durera toute la fin de semaine et nous nous attendons à être de retour en fin de journée dimanche. Nous nous excusons des inconvénients que cela puisse vous causer.

[msdogfood]

You're right, and right.

First, the Singh decision meant that the Charter of Rights Section 7 provision that "anyone in Canada" was entitled to "due process" (a clause "progressive" Justice lawyers included in the Charter to protect foreign tourists in Canada in civil suits) also applied to foreigners applying for refugee status.

Link

What is "due process"? That's a complicated question but it seems to mean at least one appeal, and the right to an advocate and interpretation.

So, these foreign Tamils once in Canada are entitled to "due process" and so their refugee applications will take months. And as they say, if you throw the dice long enough, you'll eventually get double sixes. In the meantime, what do we do with them? Put them in a hotel? A prison? Both options cost alot of money.

If you are interested, here is one suggestion to overcome this Charter interpretation:Ezra Levant

Second, FloorPie, you are right to mention the "moratorium country". But the government could "easily" reverse this definition, if it wanted. For the moment however, it hasn't. So, if bureaucrats determine that any one of these 500 Sri Lankan Tamils is inadmissible, not a refugee or whatever, they will stay nonetheless. Even if you're a thieving, murdering, terrorist, drug-dealing pimp, the government won't deport you to Sri Lanka. (Of course, it will charge you and put you in a Canadian prison if you commit an offense in Canada. Or issue a Security Certificate and hold you.)

Well The Security Certificate is going to the supreme court agen thay will probably nok it down for good this time!!

[ironstone]

You should be arguing this the way I am, that Canada is desperately short of exactly these sort of people, go-getters who through their desire to get ahead will enrich all of us and make Canada a better place.

I saw a story on the news the other night about a Tamil that arrived off Newfoundland 20 years ago who is now a successful businessman with a big house in the burbs of TO.

The more I hear from those who say ship em' back the more I suspect they're really just worried about more little brown people running around the place.

Does it concern you in the least that apparently a lot of Tamils that have been accepted as refugees GO BACK TO SRI LANKA TO VISIT?

http://www.ottawasun.com/comment/columnists/2010/08/20/15091611.html

[capricorn]

Does it concern you in the least that apparently a lot of Tamils that have been accepted as refugees GO BACK TO SRI LANKA TO VISIT?

http://www.ottawasun.com/comment/columnists/2010/08/20/15091611.html

Not only are they visiting their homeland, Sri Lanka, they're returning in large numbers.

As Canadians are being asked to accept 492 Tamils as refugees, the United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees is in the process of returning thousands of refugees to Sri Lanka and winding down some operations in that country.

Citing improving conditions since the end of the civil war in May 2009, the UNHCR announced last week that it had helped 852 Tamil refugees return to Sri Lanka from India in the first six months of 2010. That six month tally surpasses the 823 people the UN agency assisted in returning home in all of 2009. The agency also reported more than 1,000 refugees returned to Sri Lanka from India on their own.

In eastern Sri Lanka the UNHCR announced in June that it would begin winding down operations aimed at assisting people that were living in camps inside Sri Lanka. The largest camp at the close of the war, the Menik Farm camp, held 228,000 people, now the UN agency only claims 35,000 residents.

http://www.torontosun.com/news/canada/2010/08/21/15098771.html

The case for blanket acceptance of Tamil refugees cannot be substantiated.

Stand by for the Tamil protest beginning in Ottawa tomorrow. Should be interesting.

[Kanadischer]

This shipload of Tamils was the last thing this Country needs. We are multicultural enough as it is. Now we're accepting terrorists? First it's Tamil Tigers, what's next!? AL-QAEDA?

[g_bambino]

This shipload of Tamils was the last thing this Country needs. We are multicultural enough as it is. Now we're accepting terrorists? First it's Tamil Tigers, what's next!? AL-QAEDA?

Pure hyperbole on your first post. Well done.

[Jack Weber]

This shipload of Tamils was the last thing this Country needs. We are multicultural enough as it is. Now we're accepting terrorists? First it's Tamil Tigers, what's next!? AL-QAEDA?

Lictor,is Stormfront a little slow tonight?

[msdogfood]

This shipload of Tamils was the last thing this Country needs. We are multicultural enough as it is. Now we're accepting terrorists? First it's Tamil Tigers, what's next!? AL-QAEDA?

ALL Will Have A background cheek

[eyeball]

Does it concern you in the least that apparently a lot of Tamils that have been accepted as refugees GO BACK TO SRI LANKA TO VISIT?

http://www.ottawasun.com/comment/columnists/2010/08/20/15091611.html

No, it heartens me greatly to know that the Sri Lankan government is afraid to touch Tamils once they have the protection of Canadian citizenship.

[capricorn]

No, it heartens me greatly to know that the Sri Lankan government is afraid to touch Tamils once they have the protection of Canadian citizenship.

I doubt very much that Sri Lanka's government trembles at the mere thought of an encounter with Canadian embassy staff.

[Kanadischer]

Lictor,is Stormfront a little slow tonight?

I'm not a fan of Stormfront. Too many KKK and Skinheads; they're all retarded. I'm a Canadian Nationalist, not a "Neo-Nazi".

Let's stay on topic.

[Kanadischer]

ALL Will Have A background cheek

Sure they will, but to what extent? I mean, they're Tamils...I'm sure half of them aren't even listed as human beings on this planet. The most we can do is check our intelligence for people who are known terrorists.

[Kanadischer]

Pure hyperbole on your first post. Well done.

How do you figure? Am I not right that the Tamil Tigers are a well-known Terrorist Organization and that we have some based here in Canada? If we have Tamil Tigers, I'm sure we will/have Muslim extremists as well.

[M.Dancer]

How do you figure? Am I not right that the Tamil Tigers are a well-known Terrorist Organization and that we have some based here in Canada? If we have Tamil Tigers, I'm sure we will/have Muslim extremists as well.

A lictor by any other name would still smell as offensive.

[g_bambino]

How do you figure? Am I not right that the Tamil Tigers are a well-known Terrorist Organization and that we have some based here in Canada? If we have Tamil Tigers, I'm sure we will/have Muslim extremists as well.

And that is just a string of non sequiturs. You made a fear-mongering statement that lacked any facts. It is theorised that there might be Tigers on the ship; it is not known for certain that there are any. Or, do you have proof that all Tamils are Tigers?

[PIK]

A poll out today shows that 71% of tamil refugees have returned home at least once to see friends or help others come over and jump on the band wagon, or just a plain vacation. We have been duped people and it has been going on for ever. The left has prostituted these people not for the people but for the power it brings. In 08 when the shit was hitting the fan and people losing their jobs we brought in 700,000 people into this country. I for one is tired of taking it up the you know where, and I don't care if anyone calls me a racist ,because for many decades if you ever just once question our immigration and refugee system you were called a racist, and people clammed up just because of that . Do we canadians run this country and make up policy or is it the immigrant?

[g_bambino]

No, it heartens me greatly to know that the Sri Lankan government is afraid to touch Tamils once they have the protection of Canadian citizenship.

Who said anything about citizenship?

[scribblet]

A poll out today shows that 71% of tamil refugees have returned home at least once to see friends or help others come over and jump on the band wagon, or just a plain vacation. We have been duped people and it has been going on for ever. The left has prostituted these people not for the people but for the power it brings. In 08 when the shit was hitting the fan and people losing their jobs we brought in 700,000 people into this country. I for one is tired of taking it up the you know where, and I don't care if anyone calls me a racist ,because for many decades if you ever just once question our immigration and refugee system you were called a racist, and people clammed up just because of that . Do we canadians run this country and make up policy or is it the immigrant?

Exactly !!

We are being taken for a ride, these scam artists will be fed, housed and clothed while legitimate applicants have to wait longer for their turn. As Monty Solsberg said:

And it is quite the ruse considering that, while 492 so-called Tamil “migrants” - Correction: Queue-jumpers, scam artists, back-door invaders, and no doubt more than a few terrorists linked to the blood-mongering Tamil Tigers - are still being processed as refugees in British Columbia, all while the UN’s refugee commission is returning thousands of them from India to Sri Lanka because conditions there are no longer considered dire.

So call it what it is.

Call it fraud.

It is not racist to discuss this or immigration in general, people only use that as a mean to stifle discussion.

[ToadBrother]

Trudeau wanted, above all, a Charter that would protect the French minority against the English majority. Because of the Charter, English speaking Canadians cannot use the federal State to abuse their majority status against minority Francophones. To obtain this constitutional protection, I reckon Trudeau accepted many compromises.

Trudeau wanted the Constitution with the Charter in it... period. He accepted all the compromises because he was on his own deadline. He was going to be leaving, and wanted Patriation to be his legacy.

The Premiers had a lot to do with what ended up on paper. Items like the Not-withstanding Clause were not Trudeau's choice, but the Premiers wanted some guarantee against what they say was judicial abuses down in the United States (whether those constitute abuses or not is a topic for another thread).

Clearly, protections for Quebec were an important part of the equation, mainly because Trudeau wanted to cut the rug out from underneath the Separatists chief argument; that only an independent Quebec could guarantee Francophone rights. Of course, by outmaneuvering Levesque and getting the rest of the Gang of Eight on board he somewhat undermined that goal, and set up another decade of constitutional wrangling, and ultimately the 1995 vote.

[PIK]

Trudeau wanted the Constitution with the Charter in it... period. He accepted all the compromises because he was on his own deadline. He was going to be leaving, and wanted Patriation to be his legacy.

The Premiers had a lot to do with what ended up on paper. Items like the Not-withstanding Clause were not Trudeau's choice, but the Premiers wanted some guarantee against what they say was judicial abuses down in the United States (whether those constitute abuses or not is a topic for another thread).

Clearly, protections for Quebec were an important part of the equation, mainly because Trudeau wanted to cut the rug out from underneath the Separatists chief argument; that only an independent Quebec could guarantee Francophone rights. Of course, by outmaneuvering Levesque and getting the rest of the Gang of Eight on board he somewhat undermined that goal, and set up another decade of constitutional wrangling, and ultimately the 1995 vote.

And the english got screwed like usual.

[Smallc]

And the english got screwed like usual.

We screwed England? How?

[Jack Weber]

I'm not a fan of Stormfront. Too many KKK and Skinheads; they're all retarded. I'm a Canadian Nationalist, not a "Neo-Nazi".

Let's stay on topic.

You're a white supremecist and a neo-NAZI...

In other words...Scum!!!!

You can use whatever 10 dollar euphemism you want to describe yourself...You're Waffen-SS quote in your sig is a dead give away...

Go back to your CFL blog,Lictor...