The Future of Zionism

[JB Globe]

Really interesting read.

It deals with the US, but I think you could apply it to Canada as well.

Among American Jews today, there are a great many Zionists, especially in the Orthodox world, people deeply devoted to the State of Israel. And there are a great many liberals, especially in the secular Jewish world, people deeply devoted to human rights for all people, Palestinians included. But the two groups are increasingly distinct. Particularly in the younger generations, fewer and fewer American Jewish liberals are Zionists; fewer and fewer American Jewish Zionists are liberal. One reason is that the leading institutions of American Jewry have refused to foster—indeed, have actively opposed—a Zionism that challenges Israel’s behavior in the West Bank and Gaza Strip and toward its own Arab citizens. For several decades, the Jewish establishment has asked American Jews to check their liberalism at Zionism’s door, and now, to their horror, they are finding that many young Jews have checked their Zionism instead.

Morally, American Zionism is in a downward spiral. If the leaders of groups like AIPAC and the Conference of Presidents of Major American Jewish Organizations do not change course, they will wake up one day to find a younger, Orthodox-dominated, Zionist leadership whose naked hostility to Arabs and Palestinians scares even them, and a mass of secular American Jews who range from apathetic to appalled. Saving liberal Zionism in the United States—so that American Jews can help save liberal Zionism in Israel—is the great American Jewish challenge of our age.

On a personal note - I read a history of South Africa and the justifications colonists used to displace and oppress indigenous peoples for a class. Then on my own time I went and read a standard mainstream history of the creation state of Israel. I was pretty shocked to see a lot of the same arguments being used. A lot of Jews my age are open to at least discussing this, the few times I brought this up with people from my parents' generation it got ugly, fast, and more often than not ended with me being shouted into silence or a "you should be ashamed!"

There definitely is a generational change afoot. I for one, can't wait until mainstream Jewish organizations stop subscribing to groupthink and asking Jews to check their deeply held commitments to causes like human rights at the door when it comes to dealing with Israel.

[Bonam]

I think what you are seeing is simply one aspect of an ever increasing polarization of American and Canadian society over various political issues in general. Israel is a polarizing issue not only among American Jews but among Westerners in general. But it is not the only one. Look at the deeply divisive rhetoric over healthcare in the US, or over really any issue of consequence. Organizations and parties on opposite sides of issues seem more willing to dig in and hold to a certain position rather than to seek compromise.

As for young Jews not supporting Israel and growing more apathetic towards it, you could be right, I don't know, but in my personal experience young Jews in Canada and the US that I have talked to seem to still be staunch supporters of Israel. I have not personally talked to one Jew who didn't take the defend Israel stance in a political debate which touched on the topic. And I've certainly also talked to many non-Jews who also have taken the same pro-Israel stance.

I think support for Israel in the US, both among Jews and non-Jews, is still at a healthy level and not going anywhere soon. People your age I think are more open to discussing it because they have grown up in a time when it has been considered appropriate to discuss controversial and divisive issues. Saying "you should be ashamed" to someone else over a political comment might be normal for some people of older generations perhaps but seems ridiculous in the context of young people today, from my experience. In short, it is possible that they are open to discuss these topics with you not because they are any less supportive of Israel but because they are simply more comfortable debating contentious issues without getting offended.

Anyway, the article's whole idea of a split between Zionism and "liberalism" is pretty much based on a faulty tenet. Israel is still by far the most liberal state in the region, offering unprecedented religious tolerance, individual freedom, racial tolerance, gender equality, etc, in comparison to its neighbors. These are all core liberal values. In contrast, dogmatic support for multiculturalism, submission to the will of radical Islam, and the desire to replace Western populations with immigrants until no trace of Western culture remains are more recent additions to the "liberal" agenda which frankly portend a bad end for liberalism, not for Israel. It is liberalism which has gone awry, not Israel.

Edited May 18, 2010 by Bonam

[bush_cheney2004]

The US is not Canada, which has it's own issues with anti-Zionism best expressed by and for Canadians:

From Oh, Canada: Why Anti-Zionism Festers in a Country Otherwise Known for its Friendliness

Some of the worst anti-Israel violence in North America has occurred in the land of endless winters and polite pacifists. Last year, at York University in Toronto, hooligans chanting, “Die, Jew, get the hell off campus” menaced Jewish students, who barricaded themselves in the Hillel offices, terrified. This year, at the University of Western Ontario, three students who started a Facebook group called “UWO Students Against Israeli Apartheid Week” reported receiving death threats. Why are such virulent anti-Zionism and anti-Semitism festering in Canada despite its national niceness?

http://hnn.us/articles/125501.html

[naomiglover]

You would be a hypocrite if you supported both human rights and the actions taken by Israel in the name of Zionism.

There is definitely a noticeable change happening. Anti-occupation and anti-zionist Jewish groups are starting to be heard as their numbers increase. An example of this is the lobby group, JStreet. There are also groups like Jewish Voice for Peace, whose membership and activism continues to grow.

Time is running out for Zionism.

[DogOnPorch]

Sez you.

[bush_cheney2004]

...Time is running out for Zionism.

That's what Arafat said too....

[ToadBrother]

...Time is running out for Zionism.

That's what Arafat said too....

And Stalin and Hitler...

[naomiglover]

Can you show me where Arafat, Stalin and Hitler said time is running out for Zionism?

The major reason why time will run out for Zionism is because Jews will turn their backs to it. It will fall apart from within.

The young Jews who are turning their backs on the ideologies of Zionism are either pacifists or have chosen to take the side of human rights and will no longer try to make excuses for it.

[DogOnPorch]

What page of the Hamas Charter is that on? I suggest you make a voodoo doll in the shape of Israel and start sticking pins into it. I suspect it'll be more effective than waiting for you Hamas and Hezbollah comrades to drive Israel into the sea.

[ToadBrother]

Can you show me where Arafat, Stalin and Hitler said time is running out for Zionism?

All three certainly worked towards its destruction.

The major reason why time will run out for Zionism is because Jews will turn their backs to it. It will fall apart from within.

The young Jews who are turning their backs on the ideologies of Zionism are either pacifists or have chosen to take the side of human rights and will no longer try to make excuses for it.

That is until their best friend is blown up by some maniac with a nail bomb strapped to their chest.

[Oleg Bach]

There are high ranking buisness people who say that Judaism (they mean Zionism) is "a state of mind"- Which leads me to believe that the Zionist mindset can be embraced by just about anyone who likes and appreciates their mode of operation..in other words you can become an honourary secualarist Jew..and have the services and henchmen ship of Jewish Zionists at your disposal- You see it in the court system where old ANGLO lawyers are in league with ZIONIST lawyers- and they conspire together like a well oiled machine- the future of ZIONISM is - that we can all join the club...kind of like a well respected and established mafia---just keep the code of silence and you will fare well.

[Moonlight Graham]

The major reason why time will run out for Zionism is because Jews will turn their backs to it. It will fall apart from within.

This is a fantasy. Zionism isn't going bye-bye anytime in the foreseeable future.

[ToadBrother]

There are high ranking buisness people who say that Judaism (they mean Zionism) is "a state of mind"- Which leads me to believe that the Zionist mindset can be embraced by just about anyone who likes and appreciates their mode of operation..in other words you can become an honourary secualarist Jew..and have the services and henchmen ship of Jewish Zionists at your disposal- You see it in the court system where old ANGLO lawyers are in league with ZIONIST lawyers- and they conspire together like a well oiled machine- the future of ZIONISM is - that we can all join the club...kind of like a well respected and established mafia---just keep the code of silence and you will fare well.

I suggest you burn your copy of the Protocols of the Elders of Zion.

[bush_cheney2004]

....The young Jews who are turning their backs on the ideologies of Zionism are either pacifists or have chosen to take the side of human rights and will no longer try to make excuses for it.

That does not mean "Zionism" will die. It only needs to consolidate gains made to date, which are substantial.

But to be fair, I don't expect Ontario to return land to First Nations anytime soon either (if ever)!

[eyeball]

This is a fantasy. Zionism isn't going bye-bye anytime in the foreseeable future.

I wouldn't think so either. Haredim in Israel are starting to embrace Zionism and forming political parties. The Haredim are also the fastest growing population in Israel and the least secular or liberal.

[kimmy]

The major reason why time will run out for Zionism is because Jews will turn their backs to it. It will fall apart from within.

What's going to happen? Will Israelis just give the country back to the Palestinians?

-k

[Remiel]

On a personal note - I read a history of South Africa and the justifications colonists used to displace and oppress indigenous peoples for a class. Then on my own time I went and read a standard mainstream history of the creation state of Israel. I was pretty shocked to see a lot of the same arguments being used. A lot of Jews my age are open to at least discussing this, the few times I brought this up with people from my parents' generation it got ugly, fast, and more often than not ended with me being shouted into silence or a "you should be ashamed!"

There definitely is a generational change afoot. I for one, can't wait until mainstream Jewish organizations stop subscribing to groupthink and asking Jews to check their deeply held commitments to causes like human rights at the door when it comes to dealing with Israel.

I think I can feel your pain, JB, though the circumstances are vastly different in my own family. The problem is the same though: discussion of Israeli policy has caused rifts to appear where there should be none.

Among my Jewish friends (whom are mostly all young), all are open to discussion, though some still take a rather hard line. Others though tend to be critical of divisions within Israeli society, such as the settler movement, while still be supportive of Israel as a whole.

I think some of the problem can be attributed to the fact that older generations grew up in qualitatively different circumstances than people in our own generation with regards to post Holocaust anti-Semitism.

As for young Jews not supporting Israel and growing more apathetic towards it, you could be right, I don't know, but in my personal experience young Jews in Canada and the US that I have talked to seem to still be staunch supporters of Israel. I have not personally talked to one Jew who didn't take the defend Israel stance in a political debate which touched on the topic. And I've certainly also talked to many non-Jews who also have taken the same pro-Israel stance.

Despite what some of the ultra-conservative pundits claim, I do not think there are many so-called "self hating Jews," running around out there hoping for the end of Israel. Everyone wants things to work out. Disagreement comes from the question of whether things are going to work out by following the current path.

Anyway, the article's whole idea of a split between Zionism and "liberalism" is pretty much based on a faulty tenet. Israel is still by far the most liberal state in the region, offering unprecedented religious tolerance, individual freedom, racial tolerance, gender equality, etc, in comparison to its neighbors. These are all core liberal values. In contrast, dogmatic support for multiculturalism, submission to the will of radical Islam, and the desire to replace Western populations with immigrants until no trace of Western culture remains are more recent additions to the "liberal" agenda which frankly portend a bad end for liberalism, not for Israel. It is liberalism which has gone awry, not Israel.

I think you are kind of equivocating with your use of "liberalism" here, Bonam. In any case though, if Israel's neighbours are very unliberal, Israel is still only limitedly liberal, especially in the classic sense of liberal. It is a country whose governments purpose is bound up in that of a collective, not merely a group of individuals.

Also, if liberalism must be conflated with Western culture and people, then it is not the case that liberalisms demise will because liberal countries went awry; it it because liberalism was flawed in the first place. A political ideal is at heart a theory about the organization of people. If it cannot be generalized to all peoples, it is in some sense a failure as a theory.

The US is not Canada, which has it's own issues with anti-Zionism best expressed by and for Canadians:

From Oh, Canada: Why Anti-Zionism Festers in a Country Otherwise Known for its Friendliness

Some of the worst anti-Israel violence in North America has occurred in the land of endless winters and polite pacifists. Last year, at York University in Toronto, hooligans chanting, “Die, Jew, get the hell off campus” menaced Jewish students, who barricaded themselves in the Hillel offices, terrified. This year, at the University of Western Ontario, three students who started a Facebook group called “UWO Students Against Israeli Apartheid Week” reported receiving death threats. Why are such virulent anti-Zionism and anti-Semitism festering in Canada despite its national niceness?

http://hnn.us/articles/125501.html

I am deeply troubled by such things. No good can come of such things, be it the work of a group, as at York, or an individual, as Western probably was.

But if I may say so, I am also curious as to why the media only ever seems to publish the anti-Jewish quotes from such confrontations. They are probably the worst (that is, after all, how the media works), but I have read Ha'aretz enough to see numerous stories of the bald hatred some Israeli Jews have for Palestinians, and I imagine that for any confrontation to count as "heated" there is probably some of the crap from the Middle East channeled by both sides. I mean, Jews are not in a position of weakness anymore, yet the media always portrays them as such when a confrontation is publicized. At least at my university, neither side is afraid of challenging the other.

I wouldn't think so either. Haredim in Israel are starting to embrace Zionism and forming political parties. The Haredim are also the fastest growing population in Israel and the least secular or liberal.

Haredim are a whole can of worms themselves, and would be even if there were no Israeli-Palestinian conflict. A lot of Israelis have an intense dislike for the Haredim and their place is Israeli society. I do not think you will see them wholly switch over though, even if there is some embracing of Zionism. Their stance on Israel is too rooted in religious events that have yet to take place, if they ever will.

[naomiglover]

What's going to happen? Will Israelis just give the country back to the Palestinians?

-k

End of Zionism does not mean the end of Israel.

Israel is here to stay.

[naomiglover]

I wouldn't think so either. Haredim in Israel are starting to embrace Zionism and forming political parties. The Haredim are also the fastest growing population in Israel and the least secular or liberal.

You bring up a good point about the Haredim. Zionism is only successful in attracting the religious extremists. At the end, the political and financial costs will not be worth it anymore.

[Bonam]

Despite what some of the ultra-conservative pundits claim, I do not think there are many so-called "self hating Jews," running around out there hoping for the end of Israel. Everyone wants things to work out. Disagreement comes from the question of whether things are going to work out by following the current path.

For the most part I agree with you here. Of course, there are exceptions, those who make a personal profit or gain of some sort by denouncing Israel. Certain prominent individuals do come to mind.

I think you are kind of equivocating with your use of "liberalism" here, Bonam. In any case though, if Israel's neighbours are very unliberal, Israel is still only limitedly liberal, especially in the classic sense of liberal. It is a country whose governments purpose is bound up in that of a collective, not merely a group of individuals.

Israel and its neighbours are like night and day in regards to the freedoms of individuals in society. As for Israel's government, it's purpose is to somehow make sure Israel survives and prospers in the midst of a region which would see it wiped off the map. I'd say they have thus far done reasonably well in that regard.

Also, if liberalism must be conflated with Western culture and people, then it is not the case that liberalisms demise will because liberal countries went awry; it it because liberalism was flawed in the first place. A political ideal is at heart a theory about the organization of people. If it cannot be generalized to all peoples, it is in some sense a failure as a theory.

Not gonna argue with you there. I certainly see many deep flaws in modern liberalism.

I am deeply troubled by such things. No good can come of such things, be it the work of a group, as at York, or an individual, as Western probably was.

But if I may say so, I am also curious as to why the media only ever seems to publish the anti-Jewish quotes from such confrontations. They are probably the worst (that is, after all, how the media works), but I have read Ha'aretz enough to see numerous stories of the bald hatred some Israeli Jews have for Palestinians, and I imagine that for any confrontation to count as "heated" there is probably some of the crap from the Middle East channeled by both sides. I mean, Jews are not in a position of weakness anymore, yet the media always portrays them as such when a confrontation is publicized. At least at my university, neither side is afraid of challenging the other.

I've personally witnessed these events and reality is that Jews are frankly vastly outnumbered at these kinds of rallies, as Jews have generally been outnumbered in just about every context throughout history. When a throng of angry Arabs is heatedly protesting and yelling on campus, you are not gonna find an equivalent number of Jews trying to counter them. Most are either too apathetic, have better things to do (like actually learning, what they came to the university to do), or are fearful of violence and confrontation. When I was in university I saw the events of Israeli Apartheid week and was disgusted, but to stand up and challenge the rabble of angry bearded Arabs by myself? No thanks, I'm not suicidal.

Haredim are a whole can of worms themselves, and would be even if there were no Israeli-Palestinian conflict. A lot of Israelis have an intense dislike for the Haredim and their place is Israeli society. I do not think you will see them wholly switch over though, even if there is some embracing of Zionism. Their stance on Israel is too rooted in religious events that have yet to take place, if they ever will.

Interesting that people feel they can make these kinds of extremely generalized statements about various subgroups of the Jewish people and yet if someone made these kinds of generalizations about a subgroup of Islam (say, the Shia or the Sunni), we'd no doubt hear endless accusations of bigotry and discrimination. Especially interesting is likening a group of Jewish people to a "can of worms"...

[Rue]

Really interesting read.

On a personal note - I read a history of South Africa and the justifications colonists used to displace and oppress indigenous peoples for a class. Then on my own time I went and read a standard mainstream history of the creation state of Israel. I was pretty shocked to see a lot of the same arguments being used.

Now that is interesting. I am also curious. Did you spend any time reading about the system of dhimmitude in Muslim sharia nations? If not, why not? If you did, did you come to the same conclusions as you did with Israel?

I am also curious. Did you read up on the laws in Christian nations and how they treated jews and did you find any similiarities there with South Africa?

Here is why I have a problem with your criticism. Its selective and that is probably what you get criticized on.

I will also tell you what I have a problem with-a very real problem. I am a Zionist. I don't like being stereotyped by anyone and lumped into simplistic categories such as the two black and white ones

you presented in the article. To me such categories are arbitrary and simplistic and erroneous.

I like many Zionists am not religious and consider my Jewishness a shared collective identity of which

Judaism the religion is just one of many components.

I like many Zionists in the disaspora am concerned with certain Israeli government policies that I feel are counter-productive to peace talks with Palestinians and may be alienating them.

I like many Zionists who are Jewish am not comfortable with extremist religious Zionists whether they be Jewish or Christian.

I like many Zionists believe in a two state solution and applaud a new shift in Palestinian political mentality which sees more and more Palestinians engaging in peaceful resistance rallies. I believe as that precedent spreads, it stands a good chance of making terrorists and therefore the IDF become

obsolete and will force politicians to meet and have to dialogue.

Unlike you though I do not buy into this Zionism is racism, Zionism is apartheid stereotype.

Zionism is not about defining people by race. It is a non religious, political response to Jews in Europe being refused the same rights as non Jews and being second class citizens in those countries. It was a response to Jews being forced to live in the apartheid system of dhimmitude in Muslim countries.

Zionism was a political reaction to being segregated and treated as inferior and being persecuted. It was not based on racist ideology or religious ideology but on a political response by a collective of people

called Jews who believed they had a right of universal sufferage.

The idea of a Jewish state was to create an institution that would forever guarantee that if one were a Jew never again would there be a holocaust or the forced second class discimination or persecution of Jews again. The state would be a place of refuge for Jews fleeing persecution.

It wasn't created as you infer based on any notion of superiority. This is precisely why Arabic is an official language of Israel and Muslims and Christians who are Israeli citizens have the exact same

legal rights as Jewish Israelis do and the Supreme Court of Israel has upheld those rights and protected

their right to equal treatment. This is precisely why they have their own family and religious courts.

This is precisely why Muslims in Israel have the highest standard of living of any Muslims in the Middle East. Tell me, in your analysis, did you stop to ask yourself how it is you came to the conclusion

you did about South Africa and failed to notice how Muslims and Christians in Israel who are of Israeli citizenship are not segregated and have access to the same government buildings and hospitals?

What you do is classic. You take the situation on the West Bank, and then fuse it with the actual situation in the State of Israel and turn it all into one negative stereotype of how Muslims in Israel are treated and that is why I suggest you are criticized-that and your simplistic black and white

attempts to explain the many nuances of conflicts in the Middle East.

Edited May 19, 2010 by Rue

[Bonam]

Good post Rue, I do however take issue with one of your statements...

I believe as that precedent spreads, it stands a good chance of making terrorists and therefore the IDF become obsolete

Even if terrorism in the area ever completely disappears, that doesn't mean the IDF would become obsolete... I don't see how you can say that. Nations continue to maintain armies even without terrorism.

Edited May 19, 2010 by Bonam

[JB Globe]

As for young Jews not supporting Israel and growing more apathetic towards it, you could be right, I don't know, but in my personal experience young Jews in Canada and the US that I have talked to seem to still be staunch supporters of Israel. I have not personally talked to one Jew who didn't take the defend Israel stance in a political debate which touched on the topic.

Are you saying you have never met a Jew who is opposed to the separation fence, and West Bank settlements? I find that extremely hard to believe. Even middle-of-the-road Jews look down on those things.

But besides that, there's definitely a marked decline in support for Israel from decade to decade. One study that I saw tested the same young age group for the past several decades and found Jews with a positive image of Israel has declined by about 8% each decade.

I think support for Israel in the US, both among Jews and non-Jews, is still at a healthy level and not going anywhere soon.

I disagree - the declining support is directly related to the occupation of Palestine. It is a policy which forces Israel to commit acts which are repulsive to most Jews. Some Jews can rationalize some of this away by invoking tribal loyalty or by claiming it's self-defense, but this decade we're seeing Israel do things which really can't be justified by anyone who is truly committed to human rights or democratic freedoms - case in point: the separation barrier - there is simply no other explanation for not building it on the border other than it was a land-grab that aimed to sieze territory and make settlements permanent. And now Jews who are told to support Israel have to bare witness to IDF soldiers firing tear gas and beating back groups of women who are trying to stop bulldozers from tearing up their olive groves.

That's not exactly an image you want going out to the world if you want to increase support for your nation.

Anyway, the article's whole idea of a split between Zionism and "liberalism" is pretty much based on a faulty tenet. Israel is still by far the most liberal state in the region, offering unprecedented religious tolerance, individual freedom, racial tolerance, gender equality, etc, in comparison to its neighbors.

True, but I've always believed that by most Western standards, Israel is not that liberal due to the amount of influence religious authorities (ie - the Chief Rabbinate) have within civil society. It shouldn't be surprising however that nation founded mainly by Europeans bears a closer resemblance to European government than it does to Arab governments. But frankly, for a nation that projects itself as a shining light of liberalism, Israel has failed to live up to it's aims.

But there has been a marked decline in how liberal a state Israel is as religious conservatives have gotten more and more influential in determining domestic and foreign government policy. And this has filtered out into public life as well. Whereas a woman wearing jeans would never be harassed a few decades ago, some areas of Jerusalem are no-go areas for women do to verbal and even physical harassment from religious extremists, unless they dress according to orthodox standards.

Also, not many liberal nations deny property rights to people based on their religious background.

And it's these realities which young Jews find increasingly hard to ignore in the face of pressure to support Israel.

[JB Globe]

Some of the worst anti-Israel violence in North America has occurred in the land of endless winters and polite pacifists. Last year, at York University in Toronto, hooligans chanting, “Die, Jew, get the hell off campus” menaced Jewish students, who barricaded themselves in the Hillel offices, terrified. This year, at the University of Western Ontario, three students who started a Facebook group called “UWO Students Against Israeli Apartheid Week” reported receiving death threats. Why are such virulent anti-Zionism and anti-Semitism festering in Canada despite its national niceness?

I went to York, and at that time it was just as heated, if not more so - eventually debate on the Israeli-Palestinian issue was banned from the campus while I was there because of a small brawl of about a dozen people that broke out.

I'm sure things haven't changed that much since then, mainly that: there are some incredibly dumb thugs on both sides of the debate that don't really care about discussing issues, but have such a seething hatred for the other side that they're just looking for any excuse to start a a ruckus.

Frankly, you'd hear disgusting and stupid garbage coming out of both sides.

The problem with the debate at York wasn't that one side was worse than the other, it's just that both sides acted like 14-year-olds that had just downed 4 cans of Red Bull prior to the discussion.

[JB Globe]

That does not mean "Zionism" will die. It only needs to consolidate gains made to date, which are substantial.

To go back to the point of the article - Zionism won't die, it will just change, most likely for the worst.

The Zionist movement will loose it's liberal Jews who become increasingly disgusted by Israel's behaviour and they'll be replaced by Christian-Zionists (who want to bring about Armageddon) who will join orthodox Jews in promoting a purely irrational, militant, Imperialistic and racist form of Zionism which will cause much greater instability in the region.

And if the US is onboard with supporting this move to the fringe, expect a lot more animosity coming it's way.