Obama's Katrina

[Shady]

I agree it is a bad precedent to bar reporters from the scene. And this is not the first time the government bans news sources from filming in emergency/disaster situations. Oh this kind of thing would never happen under Bush's watch. That is one thing you'd say, but you'd be wrong.... again.

Yes, but Obama's President remember? Hope n change, remember? A new way of doing things, remember? He's not Bush, he's much better than Bush, remember?

It's funny Shady, you did not think it was that big of a problem when the oil rig blew up

I said it wouldn't be such a huge problem if it was indeed only as bad as first reported. Unfortunately, BP lied, and the Obama administration didn't do their own verifying until several weeks later.

and said the oil was natural

Oil is natural. Who do you think puts it so far under the ground? Haliburton magicians?

and the gulf will handle it without issue

I said it could handle it. I never said without issue. More of your lies. Again, if the leak was only what originally reported, then yes.

and now you got your knickers all up in your crack about almost everything pertaining to this

Yes, I do get annoyed by government incompetence, and hypocrisy by you and your ilk when it comes to Obama.

I don't mean to pick on you personally Shady, but you make it so damn f*cking easy

Don't worry about it. You're like an annoying fly that when gets too close, I just smack with a newspaper. Your lies and distortion are easily handled by someone of my skill and acumen.

[GostHacked]

That's all you got tonight? Kleenex (yet another Yankee icon) has displaced tissue in your vocabulary because of those damn Americans and their media. You can't help yourself even if you wanted to.

I won't waste my good material on you. Kleenez has been a quality brand for decades, also advertised on Canadian Channels and also made here in Canada. It's also made out of soft wood lumber.

[GostHacked]

Yes, but Obama's President remember? Hope n change, remember? A new way of doing things, remember? He's not Bush, he's much better than Bush, remember?

I've never said Obama would be better. I've actually said that he would be a lot worse. You can find me saying that a year or more ago here on MLW.

I said it wouldn't be such a huge problem if it was indeed only as bad as first reported. Unfortunately, BP lied, and the Obama administration didn't do their own verifying until several weeks later.

And it was revised week by week, they all underestimated how big of a problem this was going to be. I will bet you they are still low balling numbers. An Exxon Valdez is spilled every 2.5 days at their last estimates, it's probably much higher yet. Never trust the initial numbers any corporation or government tells you, it's always, always worse.

The clean up is now going to take much much longer than anticipated as well. Tis hurricane season, and that will put a damper on clean up efforts. This huge ship you are talking about is brand new and did not exist 3 months ago. So it could have NEVER been put into service at the start of this disaster.

Your pissed and I get that, as many of us are. This simply should not have happened in the first place. We have the technology to make this process safe. We just lack effective governments to enforce strict regulations because their palms are greased by the oil industry itself. The oil industry wants the oil now and will risk it all to get at it. Time/money is saved by cutting corners. The Deepwater Horizon is proof of that. But you know a simple blow out preventer valve could have saved them.

It's not just a problem in the US, it is a problem in many industrialized nations. BC had brought up Hibernia in another thread, and well if that thing ever has a problem it will be very huge. I would hope that they have insured their investment by putting in the best safety technology to prevent a disaster, but greasing palms works here as well. Time saved on skirting safety is also money made by starting production sooner.

I am not against drilling, but this event will really change nothing, no extra measures will ever be put into place to prevent this thing from happening again. If this is jut one case with BP, how many other oil rigs out there are that are potential issues? Now to me it may be just BP because they have an obvious history of screw ups. Who's palms did BP grease with some black gold profits?

Don't worry about it. You're like an annoying fly that when gets too close, I just smack with a newspaper. Your lies and distortion are easily handled by someone of my skill and acumen.

Can you prove I have lied in this thread? Once you do, you can claim skill. And you rarely have the acumen when reading an article that proves you wrong but won't admit to it even after you have been proven wrong. Insight my ass.

[bush_cheney2004]

I won't waste my good material on you. Kleenez has been a quality brand for decades, also advertised on Canadian Channels and also made here in Canada. It's also made out of soft wood lumber.

Sorry....but I'm a Puffs man...much higher quality. Lot's of Canadian raw materials go into what the Americans have made brand names. From the same manufacturer (Kimberly-Clark), you're probably too young to know what a Kotex napkin is and how it relates to Kleenex!

[BubberMiley]

and why the hell would you care so much from Canada anyway if not also interested in the political angle? It's not like you live in the US gulf region.

Why the hell would you care from backwoods Minnesota? Oh, because water doesn't care about state borders just as it doesn't care about international ones.

[bush_cheney2004]

Why the hell would you care from backwoods Minnesota? Oh, because water doesn't care about state borders just as it doesn't care about international ones.

But you say I live in backerwoods Regina. Make up your confused mind.

As for the spill....I care only as grist for the political mill in this election cycle, not the water silly.

[BubberMiley]

But you say I live in backerwoods Regina. Make up your confused mind.

How am I supposed to know where you live when you're anonymous? Could be Regina. Could even be Saskatoon.

[Smallc]

One thing is for sure...it isn't Yorkton....

[punked]

Nope. You're spinning again. It was refitted 3 months ago. It still doesn't explain why the Obama Administration waited 70 days to inquire about it's services.

P.S. The A-Whale is now on it's way to the gulf to be used at the spill site. Looks like Obama got those test results in about 24 hours! Probably had nothing to do with the press reports.

That's some damn quick testing, eh punked!

Anyways, more incompentence.

It is weird Shady you say Obama got those test results yet he is testing tomorrow. It is almost as if you have no clue what you are saying ever or that you don't know about anything.

http://www.cbc.ca/world/story/2010/07/03/a-whale-gulf.html

I welcome the Federal government testing something before spending the peoples money on it. Republicans like Shady show why no one should elect them. They aren't ready instead of being educated and making rational arguments they jump on ideas then stick to them even when pointed out they are wrong. Even making up lies despite all fact.

Edited July 4, 2010 by punked

[ironstone]

Hey Crazy right wing 1800 people died in Katrina, neither:

H1N1 flu

Fort Hood shootings

Kentucky Ice storms

Haiti earthquake

GM bankruptcy

Christmas Day Underwear Bomber

Housing policies in Chicago (No kidding)

Or this are like Katrina, sorry Bush sucked so much stop trying to make Obama out to be as bad. 1800 people DIED cause his Bush's inaction. Keep it up.

It's been reported that right after the blow out there were something like 12-13 countries offering to send help and equipment for the Americans.Apparently Obama refused the offer.Could you shed some light on this?

[Shady]

It's been reported that right after the blow out there were something like 12-13 countries offering to send help and equipment for the Americans.Apparently Obama refused the offer.Could you shed some light on this?

You're exactly right. Obama only accepted foreign assistance last week. Some 70+ days after the leak.

Researchers say Obama's slow on oil spill science, too

WASHINGTON — As an unprecedented amount of oil fouls the Gulf of Mexico, research scientists and ocean experts say the Obama administration's efforts to discover the magnitude of the damage are surprisingly uncoordinated.

...

The reaction by scientists to the Obama administration's handling of the research echoes criticism of the government overall response

AP

[Shady]

It's sad that this situation still continues to be handled so poorly. This from AP.

The Coast Guard said there have been 107 offers of help from 44 nations, ranging from technical advice to skimmer boats and booms. But many of those offers are weeks old, and only a small number have been accepted. The vast majority are still under review, according to a list kept by the State Department.

AP

Government red-tape, and protection of unions. That's why this is an on-going problem.

[punked]

It's been reported that right after the blow out there were something like 12-13 countries offering to send help and equipment for the Americans.Apparently Obama refused the offer.Could you shed some light on this?

Yes I can. That is made up Obama, BP and those running the gig accepted all help that was given, they however did not accept help of things that would not help at all.

[GostHacked]

It's sad that this situation still continues to be handled so poorly. This from AP.

What is sad is your truth detector is broken beyond repair.

Government red-tape, and protection of unions. That's why this is an on-going problem.

You are still spewing this crap? I proved you wrong about foreign assistance, and you ignore it.

We also caught you lying about the A-Whale and when it was built/tested ect ect.

http://www.cnn.com/2010/US/07/05/gulf.oil.disaster/index.html?hpt=T1

New Orleans, Louisiana (CNN) -- Initial results from test runs of a ship billed as the world's largest oil skimming vessel could come back Monday after a weekend spent plowing the seas atop the undersea gusher in the Gulf of Mexico.

The converted cargo ship A Whale spent the weekend attempting to separate crude oil from seawater in a 25-square-mile area north of the ruptured BP oil well at the heart of the disaster. If the test is successful, the massive vessel could play a key role in efforts to clean up the largest oil spill in U.S. history.

It was tested this past weekend. It had never been tested before. It could not have been put into commision when the disaster struck, because the ship in it's current form was started after the DeepWater Horizon sank.

You've been wrong more than a couple times in this thread. But you keep spewing lies. Keep it up Shady.

The A Whale arrived in the Gulf on Wednesday and has been awaiting approval to join in cleanup efforts.

The skimmer works by "taking in oily water through a series of vents, or jaws, on the side of the ship and then decanting the intake," Grantham said. "In many ways, the ship collects water like an actual whale and pumps internally like a human heart."

Zunkunft said he is also calling in reinforcements, including 300 new skimmers in the next two weeks.

For the 12-hour period from midnight until noon Sunday, about 8,500 barrels (357,000 gallons) of oil were collected and about 3,965 barrels (166,530 gallons) of oil and 28.2 million cubic feet of natural gas were flared, BP said.

The company said about 25,195 barrels (1,058,190 gallons) of oil were recovered Saturday.

They conducted the first tests this past weekend.

[TimG]

You are still spewing this crap? I proved you wrong about foreign assistance, and you ignore it.

I could not find any such argument in this thread.

For me, the refusal to allow the Dutch skimmers to work because they could not meet the EPA regulations was worst example of government incompetence that I have seen in a while. BP might even have a legal case now that the government is responsible for part of the damage because unreasonably delayed the cleanup effort.

[GostHacked]

I could not find any such argument in this thread.

For me, the refusal to allow the Dutch skimmers to work because they could not meet the EPA regulations was worst example of government incompetence that I have seen in a while. BP might even have a legal case now that the government is responsible for part of the damage because unreasonably delayed the cleanup effort.

Shady's position is that there was NO foreign assistance accepted, which there was. I'll agree with him and say it's not enough, but the fact is foreign vessels have been helping right after the oil rig blew up.

The other thing Shady stated was this A-Whale should have been used at the start, but did not exist in it's current state until a month ago.

However, the A-whale will help a lot with the clean up, but the well needs to be capped/stopped to make clean up effective. As it is, clean up is happening much slower than the leak, and day by day, there is more oil to clean up than what has been cleaned.

That well needs to be stopped. It should have been stopped a long time ago.

[punked]

I could not find any such argument in this thread.

For me, the refusal to allow the Dutch skimmers to work because they could not meet the EPA regulations was worst example of government incompetence that I have seen in a while. BP might even have a legal case now that the government is responsible for part of the damage because unreasonably delayed the cleanup effort.

Those are laws that were put in place during Bush Senior's time as president, during the Exxon Valdez oil spill. You got a problem with them maybe take it up with the republicans in this thread like Shady, and you.

[TimG]

Shady's position is that there was NO foreign assistance accepted, which there was. I'll agree with him and say it's not enough, but the fact is foreign vessels have been helping right after the oil rig blew up.

I think you are minimizing the magnitude of the bureaucratic screw up here and why it reflects badly on Obama because Obama was the only one with the power to say screw the rules lets get those ships working ASAP.

but the well needs to be capped/stopped to make clean up effective.

I don't follow your logic. The oil needs to be cleaned up. The fact that more oil is being released does not eliminate the need to clean up oil that is already floating.

[TimG]

Those are laws that were put in place during Bush Senior's time as president, during the Exxon Valdez oil spill. You got a problem with them maybe take it up with the republicans in this thread like Shady, and you.

Obama had the power to suspend the application of those laws. He choose not to. He is responsible.

[GostHacked]

I think you are minimizing the magnitude of the bureaucratic screw up here and why it reflects badly on Obama because Obama was the only one with the power to say screw the rules lets get those ships working ASAP.

I agree it does look bad on Obama in certain aspects, but we can't ignore the past and how regulations and safety mechanisms were never tested at that depth. Usually you would have most of the emergency responses in place before a disaster like this happens. BP has had a history of getting around safety regulations. Remember this is not the first screw up BP has had. BP had a Texas City oil refinery blow up killing 15 people in 2005. BP also had a spill in Alaska in recent years.

I don't follow your logic. The oil needs to be cleaned up. The fact that more oil is being released does not eliminate the need to clean up oil that is already floating.

It should be easy logic to follow, cap that well, and you won't have to play catch up for the next year trying to clean it all up. Stop the leak/spill at the source and clean up becomes effective and a shorter process. More oil is spilling into the gulf than what they can clean up.

When you prevent an Exxon Valdez from spilling every two days, your efforts for clean up will be much more noticeable. You can put all the skimmers in the gulf but that still does not cure the problem of a leaking well.

[punked]

I think you are minimizing the magnitude of the bureaucratic screw up here and why it reflects badly on Obama because Obama was the only one with the power to say screw the rules lets get those ships working ASAP.

I don't follow your logic. The oil needs to be cleaned up. The fact that more oil is being released does not eliminate the need to clean up oil that is already floating.

Here is a question if Obama is so bad why did REPUBLICAN governors sign off to move all response and planning from their state to the Federal state department. If it looks bad for Obama it is even worse for those on the right who stripped the feds of the power to do things in order for their to be "states rights" then downloaded responsibility from the states. Poor Jindal.

[TimG]

I agree it does look bad on Obama in certain aspects, but we can't ignore the past and how regulations and safety mechanisms were never tested at that depth.

Obviously the leak itself is the fault of BP. I only expect Obama to take responsibility where he had the power to do something. In the case of the getting those Dutch skimmers to work he had the power but refused to exercise it and as a result the US government is now partially responsible for the damage caused by the spill.

It should be easy logic to follow, cap that well, and you won't have to play catch up for the next year trying to clean it all up. Stop the leak/spill at the source and clean up becomes effective and a shorter process.

Every gallon of oil cleaned up before the leak is capped is one less gallon to clean up later. There is no reason to delay cleanup waiting for a cap.

[Shady]

As punked continues to deflect from Obama's incompetence, more damaging information becomes available.

This is an example of the federal government's mishandling of the situation. Please take note punked and GostHacked. Thanks.

Three days after the BP oil spill in the Gulf of Mexico began on April 20, the Netherlands offered the U.S. government ships equipped to handle a major spill, one much larger than the BP spill that then appeared to be underway. "Our system can handle 400 cubic metres per hour," Weird Koops, the chairman of Spill Response Group Holland, told Radio Netherlands Worldwide, giving each Dutch ship more cleanup capacity than all the ships that the U.S. was then employing in the Gulf to combat the spill.

To protect against the possibility that its equipment wouldn't capture all the oil gushing from the bottom of the Gulf of Mexico, the Dutch also offered to prepare for the U.S. a contingency plan to protect Louisiana's marshlands with sand barriers. One Dutch research institute specializing in deltas, coastal areas and rivers, in fact, developed a strategy to begin building 60-mile-long sand dikes within three weeks.

The Dutch know how to handle maritime emergencies. In the event of an oil spill, The Netherlands government, which owns its own ships and high-tech skimmers, gives an oil company 12 hours to demonstrate it has the spill in hand. If the company shows signs of unpreparedness, the government dispatches its own ships at the oil company's expense. "If there's a country that's experienced with building dikes and managing water, it's the Netherlands," says Geert Visser, the Dutch consul general in Houston.

...

The U.S. government responded with "Thanks but no thanks," remarked Visser, despite BP's desire to bring in the Dutch equipment and despite the no-lose nature of the Dutch offer --the Dutch government offered the use of its equipment at no charge. Even after the U.S. refused, the Dutch kept their vessels on standby, hoping the Americans would come round. By May 5, the U.S. had not come round. To the contrary, the U.S. had also turned down offers of help from 12 other governments, most of them with superior expertise and equipment --unlike the U.S., Europe has robust fleets of Oil Spill Response Vessels that sail circles around their make-shift U.S. counterparts.

Link

And this is an example of the bureaucratic redtape that adds to the inefficiency of the clean up effort. It's a nightmare. Please take note punked and GostHacked.

When ships in U.S. waters take in oil-contaminated water, they are forced to store it. As U.S. Coast Guard Admiral Thad Allen, the official in charge of the clean-up operation, explained in a press briefing on June 11, "We have skimmed, to date, about 18 million gallons of oily water--the oil has to be decanted from that [and] our yield is usually somewhere around 10% or 15% on that." In other words, U.S. ships have mostly been removing water from the Gulf, requiring them to make up to 10 times as many trips to storage facilities where they off-load their oil-water mixture, an approach Koops calls "crazy."

Link

This type of stuff is infuriating! :angry:

[GostHacked]

As punked continues to deflect from Obama's incompetence, more damaging information becomes available.

This is an example of the federal government's mishandling of the situation. Please take note punked and GostHacked. Thanks.

We've taken note, and have corrected you one some items. Foreign vessels have been in the gulf longer than you think, foreign assistance was accepted, that does not explain why the Dutch were not allowed in. And this I will agree with you, but to say that foreign assitance was not accepted is 100% wrong. Not all of it was accepted.

And this is an example of the bureaucratic redtape that adds to the inefficiency of the clean up effort. It's a nightmare. Please take note punked and GostHacked.

I am thinking it's because BP wants the oil and will do what it takes to keep that well flowing.

This type of stuff is infuriating! :angry:

As it should be. Why has the leak not been stopped yet? All the clean up won't amount to squat unless that well is capped and stopped.

The government relied on BP's assessment for clean up. I will say that there should have been no wait.

When ships in U.S. waters take in oil-contaminated water, they are forced to store it. As U.S. Coast Guard Admiral Thad Allen, the official in charge of the clean-up operation, explained in a press briefing on June 11, "We have skimmed, to date, about 18 million gallons of oily water--the oil has to be decanted from that [and] our yield is usually somewhere around 10% or 15% on that." In other words, U.S. ships have mostly been removing water from the Gulf, requiring them to make up to 10 times as many trips to storage facilities where they off-load their oil-water mixture, an approach Koops calls "crazy."

Link

Do the skimmers lack the ability to separate water from oil? If they lack that ability, then this is correct. But the A-whale was tested on the weekend and we are awaiting the results. This vessel does have the ability to separate the oil from the water and will be much more effective, but it only went though test trials on the weekend.

[punked]

As punked continues to deflect from Obama's incompetence, more damaging information becomes available.

This is an example of the federal government's mishandling of the situation. Please take note punked and GostHacked. Thanks.

And this is an example of the bureaucratic redtape that adds to the inefficiency of the clean up effort. It's a nightmare. Please take note punked and GostHacked.

This type of stuff is infuriating! :angry:

Hmmmmmmm maybe they rejected it because they believed that BP was equip to handle the oil spill because BP were told they needed to be. The Bush admin looked at BPs oil spill plan and said it was awesome approved it and that lead this admin to think that true. When they actually looked at the plan they saw that the Bush Admin mislead the public when they approved BPs crappy plan and then they needed to come up with a real plan.