British Petroleum....had better cough up the cash!

[Oleg Bach]

They are using the term "spill" as if the oil was in a container such as a ship..and a finite amount of crude was "spilled" - a spill can be cleaned up..because there is a certain amount...of course there will be damage..

With this situation it is not a spill..it is a leak in the earth..The gulf originally was a huge crater cause by a very large chunk of space debris. The gulf of Mexico is a huge deep bowl - an odity...it may be that under this indentation is the largest oil supply on earth - This might be the richest find ever - and this rich find is going to be dictated and governed by greed.

I have argued here that greed is a mental illness...apparently the lunitics with a lot of money who effect AMERICAN congress ina perverse way are plain greedy and cheap - Certain safety measures were by passed - just so some executive could pocket a lousy few hundrend grand..It was a gamble much like the mortgage situation in the states..

REALLY- I do not understand why AMERICA tax payers should foot the bill to save that asses of what are rich idiots who are reckless gamblers at the expense of millions of people and billions of marine life forms.

BC is correct, this is NOT your daddy's oil spill..it is a mess that is unheard of - to drill in water that is a mile deep is chancey..not to mention that BP by-passed..the licencing criterium - they broke the contract and the law.

[Oleg Bach]

'Drill Baby Drill' is still the best short term answer. And drilling doesn't necessarily mean only offshore. It means on land as well.

This particular oil rig is an older model. Using this situation to minimize new technology is dishonest, and ridiculous.

And using this accident to suggest we shouldn't be drilling anymore is tantamount to using a plane crash to suggest we shouldn't fly anymore.

You would imagine that an oil rig out in the ocean should be so well designed that they should be unsinkable. You should also imagine that a huge ball of methane...should not creep up the pipe and blow the shit out of it - you should imagine that oil executives have imagination - apparently not. PROFIT - PROFIT - PROFIT...what a way to live your life - always wanting more and more..now they have to much _ I hope they choke.

[August1991]

This NYT article seems to go to the heart of the matter:

A small organization called SkyTruth, which uses satellite images to monitor environmental problems, published an estimate on April 27 suggesting that the flow rate had to be at least 5,000 barrels a day, and probably several times that.

The following day, the government — over public objections from BP — raised its estimate to 5,000 barrels a day. A barrel is 42 gallons, so the estimate works out to 210,000 gallons per day.

BP later acknowledged to Congress that the worst case, if the leak accelerated, would be 60,000 barrels a day, a flow rate that would dump a plume the size of the Exxon Valdez spill into the gulf every four days. BP’s chief executive, Tony Hayward, has estimated that the reservoir tapped by the out-of-control well holds at least 50 million barrels of oil.

The 5,000-barrel-a-day estimate was produced in Seattle by a NOAA unit that responds to oil spills. It was calculated with a protocol known as the Bonn convention that calls for measuring the extent of an oil spill, using its color to judge the thickness of oil atop the water, and then multiplying.

NYT

IOW, no one knows whether the oil well is leaking at oil at 5,000 barrels a day, or less, or more. (BTW, 5,000 barrels = 700 tonnes = 210,000 US gallons. The worst maritime oil disaster involved the collision of the Atlantic Empress and Aegean Captain in the Caribbean which spilled about 280,000 tonnes. The Exxon Valdez spilled about 37,000 tonnes.)

You can bet that the Left will claim that the BP well is leaking a 1 million gallons a day. The Right will claim that the leak is about 400 tonnes a day. God knows who is right.

[August1991]

Nonsense...we already know that the sweet crude from this spill is far more volatile and subject to different, more advantageous conditions than the black goo coming from the North Slope in Alaska. Hotter weather, warmer water, larger volume and surface area, hungrier microbes, etc. all lead to a varied outcome.

Good point.

The spill of the Atlantic Empress/Aegean Captain had largely dissipated within a week or so.

Everyone should understand that various oil and natural gas wells are exposed to the oceans (and land) naturally. If Mount St-Helens had been the result of a man-made cause, everyone today would still refer to it and we would have created a huge regulatory bureaucracy to avoid such catastrophes.

With that said, this doesn't mean we should allow anyone to dump whatever garbage they want wherever. A visit to any Middle Eastern beach, for example, illustrates well the disgusting result.

[Oleg Bach]

Good point.

The spill of the Atlantic Empress/Aegean Captain had largely dissipated within a week or so.

Everyone should understand that various oil and natural gas wells are exposed to the oceans (and land) naturally. If Mount St-Helens had been the result of a man-made cause, everyone today would still refer to it and we would have created a huge regulatory bureaucracy to avoid such catastrophes.

With that said, this doesn't mean we should allow anyone to dump whatever garbage they want wherever. A visit to any Middle Eastern beach, for example, illustrates well the disgusting result.

We seem not to realize the relative smallness of the earth - it's oceans and thin layer of atmosphere. Not long ago as mentioned in another thread - industrialists believed they could dump chemical waste in Lake Ontario - that it was so vast that it would as the previous writer states "dissipate" - we are in a closed an limited environ - oil spills - leaks - and so forth can not be explained away - this uncontrolable puncture in the crust of the earth..IS a hemmorage that is akin to a severe wound and it will not dissipate - there will be severe consequence and dire effects that might not be healable.

[Oleg Bach]

As the plains of America have a bread basket - the Gulf is it's fish basket - and man can not live on bread alone.

[Shady]

This is muchado about nothing. Much of the oil is being contain at sea, and so far, has yet to reach shore. If that continues, this oil spill will be much less impactful that originally thought. And a few years from now, you won't even know anything happened. Perhaps even less than a few years.

Chill out everyone.

[Shady]

As the plains of America have a bread basket - the Gulf is it's fish basket - and man can not live on bread alone.

That's ok, I don't like bread anyways. I enjoy vegetables, chicken and beef. And pasta from time to time.

[Guest TrueMetis]

This is muchado about nothing. Much of the oil is being contain at sea, and so far, has yet to reach shore. If that continues, this oil spill will be much less impactful that originally thought. And a few years from now, you won't even know anything happened. Perhaps even less than a few years.

Chill out everyone.

Because we all know that oil does no damage to things in the sea.

[Shady]

Because we all know that oil does no damage to things in the sea.

It's no different than underwater volcanic eruptions. Those can actually be much, much worse.

[Oleg Bach]

It's no different than underwater volcanic eruptions. Those can actually be much, much worse.

Acts of God (nature) are totally a differnt matter than acts of man. The living earth has evolved into a mechanics that can counter a natural occurance - earth is not equipped to recover from an artifical man made occurance. Much like some believe in creamation of human remains - and others believe in natural decay- The differnece between natural burial and decompostion of human flesh via burning or burial is that fact that with creamation MAN starts the process - he lights the match - BP has lit the match and the fire is burning - A volcano is naturally always burning - get my drift?

[Shady]

The living earth has evolved into a mechanics that can counter a natural occurance - earth is not equipped to recover from an artifical man made occurance.

Complete nonsense. It definitely is equipped to recover, and has so in the past. As for oil, it's a substance produced by our living earth. Oil is as natural as any other substance on our planet.

[Oleg Bach]

Complete nonsense. It definitely is equipped to recover, and has so in the past. As for oil, it's a substance produced by our living earth. Oil is as natural as any other substance on our planet.

Oil like a seal appendix is naturally encased - no one really knows what it's natural purpose is - perhaps it is a lubricant that adjust tectonic plates...? Oil is not meant to be changed and atlered for energy and the residue deposited in the sky..the sky used to be blue - now with high levels of pollution there is a green sky over most cities in summer - the ground is supposed to be green NOT the sky. You suffer from wishful thinking and a complete lack of natural logic. IF oil was meant to be in the oceans - then there would be natural leaks every where and oil slicks would cover the planet..that does not make sense to me unless you are a major share holder in BP - and if you are..You have no right to be rich at my expense.

[Guest TrueMetis]

It's no different than underwater volcanic eruptions. Those can actually be much, much worse.

Ya worse things happened before so lets ignore when less bad things happen.

[Oleg Bach]

Ya worse things happened before so lets ignore when less bad things happen.

IF appropriate measures of punitive action are not taken against BP and connecting companies - they will piss in our soup at their liesure again..This is an opportunity and a bench mark to be set to control these ass holes that dig holes to deep with out a plan of protective action in place.

[Oleg Bach]

Complete nonsense. It definitely is equipped to recover, and has so in the past. As for oil, it's a substance produced by our living earth. Oil is as natural as any other substance on our planet.

Order consists of the seperation of garbage from the food - you do not let the garbage can leak rotten fluid into your fridge (food supply) The oil company is offically out of order and in contempt of the environ..which is us!

[Oleg Bach]

TIME to give those that control money and oil a good hard spanking...If you look closely at the executives interviewed by media you will notice that the BP boys are not that bright - just very rich ..to submit to these people is a mistake..It would be like you submitting to a bad and troublesome neighbour because he is rich - that neighbour will never share his wealth - the wealth of the BP lot is there very identity and purpose..to threaten it creates sheer anguish in these people who have never had to worry about money..now they are worried and rightfully so - what goes around comes around - poor is not forever nor is rich.

[WIP]

Nonsense...we already know that the sweet crude from this spill is far more volatile and subject to different, more advantageous conditions than the black goo coming from the North Slope in Alaska. Hotter weather, warmer water, larger volume and surface area, hungrier microbes, etc. all lead to a varied outcome.

This is not your Daddy's oil spill.

Maybe you could explain this: Gulf Oil Spill: Eight-Inch Tar Balls Wash Up On Beach

Most of the oil is trapped in underwater thermal currents and hasn't reached the surface yet. Eventually we're going to find out just how light and easy to manage this oil is!

[bush_cheney2004]

...Most of the oil is trapped in underwater thermal currents and hasn't reached the surface yet. Eventually we're going to find out just how light and easy to manage this oil is!

Good....the components of crude oil can be distributed in many places through evaporation, emulsifying, biota ingestion, and weathering. All of the oil will not wash onshore as "8 inch tarballs".

From "Oil in the Sea III":

http://www.nap.edu/openbook.php?record_id=10388&page=91

[WIP]

Good....the components of crude oil can be distributed in many places through evaporation, emulsifying, biota ingestion, and weathering. All of the oil will not wash onshore as "8 inch tarballs".

From "Oil in the Sea III":

http://www.nap.edu/openbook.php?record_id=10388&page=91

But even the biggest optimists don't believe that the Gulf is going to absorb all of this oil without any consequences to marine life; especially since the flow rate looks much greater in an analysis of the underwater video: Gulf Spill May Far Exceed Official Estimates

[bush_cheney2004]

But even the biggest optimists don't believe that the Gulf is going to absorb all of this oil without any consequences to marine life; especially since the flow rate looks much greater in an analysis of the underwater video: Gulf Spill May Far Exceed Official Estimates

Any consequences will have to be "absorbed"...there is no other option at the moment. Guessing at the possible damage is political fun right now.

[Sir Bandelot]

Who knows how much we have to do without. Which is more important: survival, or trying to maintain wealth?

Survival trumps economics.

[Sir Bandelot]

Any consequences will have to be "absorbed"...there is no other option at the moment. Guessing at the possible damage is political fun right now.

The real question is, and the point of this thread, who's gonna pay for the cleanup.

[bush_cheney2004]

The real question is, and the point of this thread, who's gonna pay for the cleanup.

The same people who pay for any cleanup. Why would this be any different?

[Sir Bandelot]

We're all going to pay, one way or another. So much of this shit is building up in the water system, it will pollute the entire water table. Lots of people are gonna die

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/37171468/ns/us_news-the_new_york_times/