United States the heartland of climate-change skepticism

[Bugs]

They're at it again!

The headline screams: " ... United States the heartland of climate-change skepticism ..."

United States? Don't you have to be delusional, as the snow settles a foot deep in Virginia, to believe that BS? When even the perps, themselves, concede that there's no scientific reason to believe them, as the word gets out that they even gather less basic data than was the case a decade or two ago, with (now) only one temperature reading in whole of Arctic Canada.

Besides, it isn't the US that's obdurate. It's China, and India isn't going to go any further than China.

Many Americans are skeptical about global warming and that makes it harder to get a bill through Congress.

"My personal leanings are that it's more cyclical than a permanent trend," said Jimmy Pritchard, a Southern Baptist pastor in a Dallas suburb. And I think It's a little presumptuous to put so many resources and energy into something that may change direction in the next few years."

Well, they author sniffs, " ... Science can be controversial in a country where evangelical Christians make up a quarter of the adult population...." I love the pretension of journalists, particularly Canadian ones, who generally have so little to be pretentious about. Yes, we are forewarned.

"It's a very different debate in Europe, where there is no discussion about whether climate change is occurring. But in the United States it is about whether it exists," said John Wright of pollster Ipsos. It is a skepticism that stands in contrast with prevailing views in Europe and has been linked to the influence of U.S. talk radio, the "oil lobby", an enduring love affair with cars, and a history founded on limiting the role of government.

"In other countries academics hold a more revered position ... And so some of these Europeans look at America and say there is all this evidence, why don't you believe? And many of these American evangelicals say look ‘who's producing the evidence,"' said Michael Lindsay, a political sociologist at Rice University in Houston.

It makes you wonder, doesn't it -- where has this dude been? The basic data upon which he claims where based was dummied up, and now it seems everybody except reporters for Reuters knows it.

Look at his incredulity, the poor dear.

In interviews with Americans across the country, global warming is often seen as exaggerated, part of a plot to sabotage the U.S. economy or an intrusion in people's lives.

"They've committed a fraud," said Nancy Meinhardt, a paralegal in south Miami, referring to efforts to curb greenhouse gas emissions. A co-chair of her local Tea Party -- ... a nationwide ... grassroots movement leading opposition to Obama's agenda -- Meinhardt said a proposed cap-and-trade regime that would require industry to buy and trade pollution permits would be ruinous.

"Economically, cap and trade will destroy us. Have you any idea how much the electricity bills are going to go up?" she asked..

These are all ridiculous notions driven into the numb skulls of the religious dim-witted by talk-radio hosts, as far as Reuters is concerned.

The "Climategate" scandal at the University of East Anglia has bolstered skeptics. Leaked e-mails from its Climatic Research Unit last year led to allegations that its researchers fudged data to support the case for man-made global warming. [....]

On a global level, Pew found last year that concern over global warming was far less pronounced in America than elsewhere. It found that 44% of Americans thought it was a "very serious problem" versus 90% of Brazilians.

In France it was 68% and in Japan 65%. Other polls have shown similar differences.

It makes you wonder what's wrong with the French? Or the Japanese? Don't they read?

No, so far as our earnest Reuters man, it's the powerful U.S. oil lobby that makes the difference.

"I don't think it's that Americans are confused about global warming, it's that they're being confused," said the incoming executive director of conservation group Sierra Club, Michael Brune, who blames big spending by oil, coal and other energy industries. But he did allow some historical context.

"The mechanisms to address climate change can incite long-held fears by many people about government involvement in their lives," he said.

Personally, I think the confusion is over. The opponents were right. The proponents were lying and cooking their data, to the point that they destroyed things to cover up their thumbprint on the scales. In the meantime, the whole northern hemisphere is cooler and snowier than it's been in years, and there are responsible scientists who worry that we are entering a long-term cooling cycle.

Journalists should watch this and judge themselves accordingly. When scientists lose their credibility, the way this pack of academic bullies have, it isn't easy to redeem themselves.

Read more: http://www.nationalpost.com/news/story.html?id=2602901#ixzz0gQSeppbv

.

[August1991]

The headline screams: " ... United States the heartland of climate-change skepticism ..."

This is a Europe vs America debate.

And when did Europe come to the aid of America? Or, when did America come to the aid of Europe?

----

Some people believe that America is a backward, evangelical ignorant society. Europe is sophisticated, civilized, progressive. Smart thin Europeans understand better than thick, fat Americans. Europe understands the environment, America doesn't.

And yet, over the past two centuries, how many ordinary people has Europe killed, compared to America? Which continent is more violent? As recently as the 1990s, Europeans were killing one another - while other Europeans watched and did nothing.

So, which place is more sophisticated, smarter, civilized: America or Europe? Which place is more likely to follow a psychopathic leader? Which continent had two wars in the past century and a Holocaust? IMV, Americans are peaceful and civilized. Europeans are violent heathens.

America is from Venus, Europe is from Mars.

Edited February 24, 2010 by August1991

[bloodyminded]

Personally, I think the confusion is over. The opponents were right. The proponents were lying and cooking their data, to the point that they destroyed things to cover up their thumbprint on the scales. .

So...your position is that this is the biggest, most monumental scientific fraud ever perpetrated. By anyone. Ever. It's a conspiracy of gargantuan proportions; arguably THE biggest, most widespread, most international conspiracy of any type in history.

That IS your contention. Just so we're all clear on that point.

[wyly]

So...your position is that this is the biggest, most monumental scientific fraud ever perpetrated. By anyone. Ever. It's a conspiracy of gargantuan proportions; arguably THE biggest, most widespread, most international conspiracy of any type in history.

That IS your contention. Just so we're all clear on that point.

and remember this the USA were all these scientifically bright deniers live...

-a country where 20% of the adult population still thinks the Sun orbits the earth!

-60% of adults believe a 900year old man built a ship to hold and feed two of every species on the planet for forty days...

-50% are not aware how long it takes the earth to orbit the sun!

-another 40% believe man co-existed with the dinosaurs(including Sarah Palin)

-60% believe man is less than 10,000 years old

-30 to 40% do not believe evolution compared to 99% of scientists

I wouldn't think using the average americans opinion on science as a point of debate amounts to very much...just the opposite it should confirm the issue AGW is correct..

USA the heartland of stupidity...

Edited February 24, 2010 by wyly

[nicky10013]

This is a Europe vs America debate.

And when did Europe come to the aid of America? Or, when did America come to the aid of Europe?

----

Some people believe that America is a backward, evangelical ignorant society. Europe is sophisticated, civilized, progressive. Smart thin Europeans understand better than thick, fat Americans. Europe understands the environment, America doesn't.

And yet, over the past two centuries, how many ordinary people has Europe killed, compared to America? Which continent is more violent? As recently as the 1990s, Europeans were killing one another - while other Europeans watched and did nothing.

So, which place is more sophisticated, smarter, civilized: America or Europe? Which place is more likely to follow a psychopathic leader? Which continent had two wars in the past century and a Holocaust? IMV, Americans are peaceful and civilized. Europeans are violent heathens.

America is from Venus, Europe is from Mars.

Yet when most European nations refused (and still refuse in Afghanistan) to go to war in Iraq, they were all called elitist peaceniks that were too civilized for their own good. Can't have your cake and eat it too. Your assessment of Europe was right 65 years ago. Things have changed. The EU has charged into the future. The continent (with the exception of Russia) is so intertwined that a larg scale European war on the scale of something like WWII is impossible. Though there are some really stupid Europeans and a certain class of euro trash does exist, education is put at a premium. You listed off a bunch of qualities like they were a bad thing but statistically speaking, Europeans are more educated, healthier, happier and live longer. When someone gets it right, we should try to emulate it, not try to break it down.

[nicky10013]

and remember this the USA were all these scientifically bright deniers live...

-a country where 20% of the adult population still thinks the Sun orbits the earth!

-60% of adults believe a 900year old man built a ship to hold and feed two of every species on the planet for forty days...

-50% are not aware how long it takes the earth to orbit the sun!

-another 40% believe man co-existed with the dinosaurs(including Sarah Palin)

-60% believe man is less than 10,000 years old

-30 to 40% do not believe evolution compared to 99% of scientists

I wouldn't think using the average americans opinion on science as a point of debate amounts to very much...just the opposite it should confirm the issue AGW is correct..

USA the heartland of stupidity...

Precisely. You wonder why Republicans hate funding public education so much. Probably because they can't get support from people who know a thing or two. Interesting stats I found before the last election. Average IQ was taken across each of the 50 states. Those states with the highest average IQs were all blue.

[Shady]

-a country where 20% of the adult population still thinks the Sun orbits the earth!

-60% of adults believe a 900year old man built a ship to hold and feed two of every species on the planet for forty days...

-50% are not aware how long it takes the earth to orbit the sun!

-another 40% believe man co-existed with the dinosaurs(including Sarah Palin)

-60% believe man is less than 10,000 years old

-30 to 40% do not believe evolution compared to 99% of scientists

All of this is completely untrue. Must you pile more lies on top of the already giant lie of man-made global warming? Isn't that lie enough for you?

Edited February 24, 2010 by Shady

[Alta4ever]

and remember this the USA were all these scientifically bright deniers live...

-a country where 20% of the adult population still thinks the Sun orbits the earth!

-60% of adults believe a 900year old man built a ship to hold and feed two of every species on the planet for forty days...

-50% are not aware how long it takes the earth to orbit the sun!

-another 40% believe man co-existed with the dinosaurs(including Sarah Palin)

-60% believe man is less than 10,000 years old

-30 to 40% do not believe evolution compared to 99% of scientists

I wouldn't think using the average americans opinion on science as a point of debate amounts to very much...just the opposite it should confirm the issue AGW is correct..

USA the heartland of stupidity...

I assume you have a cite for this illuminating data.

[eyeball]

When someone gets it right, we should try to emulate it, not try to break it down.

True, but few who persist in getting it wrong want anyone else pointing at examples of someone who's getting it right.

[wyly]

Precisely. You wonder why Republicans hate funding public education so much. Probably because they can't get support from people who know a thing or two. Interesting stats I found before the last election. Average IQ was taken across each of the 50 states. Those states with the highest average IQs were all blue.

poll of highest level of education reached has demonstrated the same link...republicans are generally bumpkins living in bumpkin states...

I will say something good about one Republican, Arnold Schwarzenegger, I dismissed him as steroid abusing celebrity but I watched him in an interview this week and he is quite a bright and rational politician...the repubilcans could use more like him...

[nicky10013]

poll of highest level of education reached has demonstrated the same link...republicans are generally bumpkins living in bumpkin states...

I will say something good about one Republican, Arnold Schwarzenegger, I dismissed him as steroid abusing celebrity but I watched him in an interview this week and he is quite a bright and rational politician...the repubilcans could use more like him...

Completely agree. However, centrism and moderation has simply evaporated from the blood of conservatives.

[Shady]

poll of highest level of education reached has demonstrated the same link...republicans are generally bumpkins living in bumpkin states...

Again, that simply isn't true. It's actually Democrats that are the lesser intelligent people. Also people from the most violent areas of the country as well. More murder, rape, drugs, crime, etc. It's pretty awful. Just look at any large city in America. Run by Dems for decades and decades. The worst crime, the worst schools, the worst welfare, and their states are the most in debt, and with the lowest economic growth. It's a fact.

[nicky10013]

Again, that simply isn't true. It's actually Democrats that are the lesser intelligent people. Also people from the most violent areas of the country as well. More murder, rape, drugs, crime, etc. It's pretty awful. Just look at any large city in America. Run by Dems for decades and decades. The worst crime, the worst schools, the worst welfare, and their states are the most in debt, and with the lowest economic growth. It's a fact.

Most of the cities in the US fit that bill. Run by democrat or republican. Fact is that if you went to university there's a better chance of you being a democrat.

[Michael Hardner]

So, this is a thread about the controversy not about the science itself ?

Ok, well the controversy is likely centered in the US. That doesn't seem so controversial itself.

[bush_cheney2004]

So, this is a thread about the controversy not about the science itself ?

Ok, well the controversy is likely centered in the US. That doesn't seem so controversial itself.

It's always about the US....regardless of the topic....even under Canadian Politics.

[Michael Hardner]

It's always about the US....regardless of the topic....even under Canadian Politics.

That is a prescription for boredom.

[bush_cheney2004]

That is a prescription for boredom.

It's as if there is no desire for a Canadian context or framework.....they always go for the easy American reference. Maybe it's because Google or Bing does not yield adequate Canadian references in search results.

It must be more than boring....it must be stifling.

[Michael Hardner]

It's as if there is no desire for a Canadian context or framework.....they always go for the easy American reference. Maybe it's because Google or Bing does not yield adequate Canadian references in search results.

It must be more than boring....it must be stifling.

I think it's stifling to try to define oneself in terms of one's country, especially when this country is constantly being made and remade by immigration. I am half French-Canadian, old stock, part Irish, English and Italian. These European people arrived from the 1600s to the 1900s so that they could have a better life, not because they loved the cold, or they respected our treatment of native people, or because they loved the Queen or they were prescient and knew we would have healthcare one day.

I don't like all of the actions of America's government, or Canada's but I can't hold that against people who are largely like me. I think that nationalism in general is pointless, and lately seems to mark you as someone who doesn't know about globalization.

Can't we all be forthright and say that countries largely don't matter any more ?

Edited to add: I went a little far with that last statement - a bit of hyperbole - but I will say that the relevance of nations continues to dwindle...

Edited February 24, 2010 by Michael Hardner

[bush_cheney2004]

Can't we all be forthright and say that countries largely don't matter any more ?

No...not anymore than we can say that families don't matter, or schools don't matter, or cities don't matter, or......

[Michael Hardner]

No...not anymore than we can say that families don't matter, or schools don't matter, or cities don't matter, or......

Can we say they matter less ? PLEASE ?

I saw another commercial about Canada today... and I was thinking.... please don't be a beer commercial, please don't be a beer commercial.

But it was.

[bush_cheney2004]

Can we say they matter less ? PLEASE ?

No, but you can....it matters less to Canada.

[Michael Hardner]

No, but you can....it matters less to Canada.

Why does it matter to the US ? Is it the philosophy that matters ? That would make sense, but I haven't heard it articulated quite that way.

Once in awhile, I'll read/hear somebody talking about the spirit of the new immigrant - now that's American to me. But more often, I hear them complaining about immigrants.

[bush_cheney2004]

Why does it matter to the US ? Is it the philosophy that matters ? That would make sense, but I haven't heard it articulated quite that way.

It matters to the US because of the way the nation was founded and expanded through "American exceptionalism" as defined by Tocqueville.

Once in awhile, I'll read/hear somebody talking about the spirit of the new immigrant - now that's American to me. But more often, I hear them complaining about immigrants.

Once you can complain about new immigrants, you are truly an American.

Edited February 25, 2010 by bush_cheney2004

[Michael Hardner]

It matters to the US because of the way the nation was founded and expanded through "American exceptionalism" as defined by Tocqueville.

Objectively, would you say that this is still a differentiating trait of the USA versus other places ?

[bush_cheney2004]

Objectively, would you say that this is still a differentiating trait of the USA versus other places ?

It certainly is in the way America continues to manifest itself around the world. Even for this narrow topic, we're not talking about satellite data from Burundi.