nicky10013 Posted February 9, 2010 Report Posted February 9, 2010 But that is what we have in ottawa right now honest men doing their job and not demanding thier entitlements. What did chretien do for 13 years ,with all the problems that harper has to fix, it sure makes you wonder. What problems? Has Harper fixed anything? Seems to me he's only created more problems. Quote
wyly Posted February 9, 2010 Report Posted February 9, 2010 Alledgedly - that guy you see in the pictures with the Defence Minister Mckay - just got arrested - it seems that this person with ultra high security clearance ALLEDGEDLY liked to kill and rape or rape and kill woman for the thrill of it. I wonder how many and in how many places this person performed his devilish duties? If someone is looking for a reason to bring down the current lazy and overly privledged government - the torture of prisoners handed over to other barabarians is not the true stuff that scandals are made of - we seem to have a serial killer rubbing sholders with the conservative government - NOW THIS IS A REAL SCANDAL - enjoy and pass the pop corn. what has this got to do with the conservative government?????... Quote “Conservatives are not necessarily stupid, but most stupid people are conservatives.”- John Stuart Mill
ToadBrother Posted February 9, 2010 Report Posted February 9, 2010 what has this got to do with the conservative government?????... I'm pretty confused myself. This guy has been in the army quite some time. Apparently his superiors never suspected anything, and by all accounts he is a well-respected upwardly mobile career officer. The Government does not micromanage the military. Blaming Harper for this is just pure moronic partisanship. Quote
Who's Doing What? Posted February 9, 2010 Report Posted February 9, 2010 Anti-Conservative and anti-Harper venom seems to have ramped up around here since the Liberals have narrowed the gap in election polls. The smell of power will do that to some people. Do stick around and continue posting. IF level of venom reaches a little bit higher it might come close to matching what commonly comes the other way. Quote Harper differed with his party on some key policy issues; in 1995, for example, he was one of only two Reform MPs to vote in favour of federal legislation requiring owners to register their guns. http://www.mapleleafweb.com/election/bio/harper.html "You've got to remember that west of Winnipeg the ridings the Liberals hold are dominated by people who are either recent Asian immigrants or recent migrants from eastern Canada: people who live in ghettoes and who are not integrated into western Canadian society." (Stephen Harper, Report Newsmagazine, January 22, 2001)
Who's Doing What? Posted February 9, 2010 Report Posted February 9, 2010 Hey Mike - I know the Tweed area. Had a friend who moved there. This is real shocking stuff _ it was odd - I never go to the library very often but I did this morning and my eye caught the photo of one of the missing woman..and a plea from her family for her safe return - then about ten minutes later I got hope and turned on the tube and there was the picture again - then a picture of RUSSELL WILLIAMS - The alledged serial rapist murderer..then there is another clip with him hanging out with the Defence minister _ now I find out that he was the trusted air chaffeur for even the prime minister... this is about JUDGEMENT of human character...the apologist are coming out of the wood work- They are going on about phsycological testing and all that other crap...this will make the Fort Hood embarrassment in the states look like a high school reunion. IF Harper and the boys get back to work - they will literally have to crawl under a rock if this Russell Williams character is the type of man they appoint to represent Canada abroad - what is this saying? Is it possible that a bunch of pirates have taken over Canada? Good point. IF this man has killed and raped, what the hell is he doing within arms length of some of the most important and powerful people in the country? Political parties aside, this is a serious case of dropping the ball. Who cleared him to be around our top ministers and PM? Quote Harper differed with his party on some key policy issues; in 1995, for example, he was one of only two Reform MPs to vote in favour of federal legislation requiring owners to register their guns. http://www.mapleleafweb.com/election/bio/harper.html "You've got to remember that west of Winnipeg the ridings the Liberals hold are dominated by people who are either recent Asian immigrants or recent migrants from eastern Canada: people who live in ghettoes and who are not integrated into western Canadian society." (Stephen Harper, Report Newsmagazine, January 22, 2001)
g_bambino Posted February 9, 2010 Report Posted February 9, 2010 IF this man has killed and raped, what the hell is he doing within arms length of some of the most important and powerful people in the country? What's the point of asking the question until it's been proven he raped and killed anyone? Regardless, rapists and murderers usually don't go around telling their colleagues that they rape and kill. It's considered gauche. Quote
dizzy Posted February 9, 2010 Report Posted February 9, 2010 (edited) It maybe that there is a trickle down effect of poor or inept judgement. Or it can be said that - What does a bad judical ruling have to do with the persons who appoint the judges? Or - What does a father or mother have to do with the poor behaviour of a son or daughter? POLICY has nothing to do with good judgement and judgement rarely is found in policy - policy is auto-pilot rule and apparently this pilot...thought he was above supereme law and mans law - maybe he thought he was untouchable...maybe those in power belive that moral behaviour is for the lowly poor and that they can do what they want - like assist Americans in the pludering of other nations under the guise of "democracy." Policy driven judical systems and governments stink ---about time we had some good judgement - To rise to the rank of Colonel and for those doing the advancement not to see the darkness in a mans eyes is unforegivable --- Are our leaders blind? I do not want to live in a country where the elected government is intimately involved in the selection of bureaucrats. I understand the role for this at the most senior levels (like The CDS and environmental chiefs in a military context, Deputy Ministers, or Chiefs of Staff, when there is a need to impose political will over a whole organization). If there is a weak point for the conservatives, it's that they have done too much of this lower level patronage appointing to other government agencies. I just don't see how or why the promotion of an LCol to Colonel and Wing Commander and, who was by all counts a competent employee, should fall on their laps. EDIT: I just read that he was CO for Camp Mirage in 2005-2006, which meant his appointment to head the theatre support element for afghanistan (a critical line for everything, from troops to weapons and food) came under the liberals. Should I be afraid to vote for them, too? Edited February 9, 2010 by dizzy Quote
Army Guy Posted February 9, 2010 Report Posted February 9, 2010 I read though some of these posts and can only shake my head, how quick we are to piont out blame with our twisted fingers , spitel flying from our mouths....But it is our national past time, better than a hockey game (for some) always looking to blame some nation, groups , or individual for our problems... It's hard to accept just the facts that this accused is Canadian, one of us , and will always be Canadian just like us...Yes he was in the Military, had been for years had an accomplished carear up until now, recruited out of the masses of other Canadians, once again making him one of us...does that make the crime any worse than it is, would it have been different had he been a construction worker, plumber, doctor, lawyer...No, the crime would have been just as hideous... How policitics even plays in this entire shit show is beyond me, do we do that with every criminal ask them their voting status and then hang that on that party to wear as a badge of dishonor...does it even play a role in the this shit show....was he hearing hapers vioce in his head,"kill for the conservative party" Security clearences, anyone have one done....It's a series of questions into your back ground history, and then those same questions are asked of the references you've named, and other sources are checked as they come up...if this guy could keep this from his wife, who he lives with 24 and 7 then odds are he'd be able to keep it from everyone else...i'm just guessing.... No one will know what made this guy snap, if we had those answers we'd be crime free would we not...what we do know is he has been charged....him and him alone...not Harper, not the conservatives, Liberals, or NDP, or the military just him...Sorry to undress the parade...pack away the confetty, the banners... Quote We, the willing, led by the unknowing, are doing the impossible for the ungrateful. We have now done so much for so long with so little, we are now capable of doing anything with nothing.
Shakeyhands Posted February 9, 2010 Report Posted February 9, 2010 I read though some of these posts and can only shake my head This whole thread should be nuked. It's stupid. We have clearly delusional posters spewing their bile, and the odd intelligent one scoring a funny comment. But for the most part, the whole thing is insipid. Don't read too much in to it AG. Quote "They muddy the water, to make it seem deep." - Friedrich Nietzsche
DrGreenthumb Posted February 9, 2010 Report Posted February 9, 2010 This whole thread should be nuked. It's stupid. We have clearly delusional posters spewing their bile, and the odd intelligent one scoring a funny comment. But for the most part, the whole thing is insipid. Don't read too much in to it AG. Yeah not even I am blaming this one on the Conservatives, even though I truly despise them. Quote
Michael Hardner Posted February 9, 2010 Report Posted February 9, 2010 I don't think there can be political spin on this one. If the Liberals tried to do that, it could well backfire on them. And Oleg seems to be the only one who tried to tie this to the government, which lines up with some of the other unusual accusations he has made in the past. Quote Click to learn why Climate Change is caused by HUMANS Michael Hardner
PIK Posted February 9, 2010 Report Posted February 9, 2010 Hey Mike - I know the Tweed area. Had a friend who moved there. This is real shocking stuff _ it was odd - I never go to the library very often but I did this morning and my eye caught the photo of one of the missing woman..and a plea from her family for her safe return - then about ten minutes later I got hope and turned on the tube and there was the picture again - then a picture of RUSSELL WILLIAMS - The alledged serial rapist murderer..then there is another clip with him hanging out with the Defence minister _ now I find out that he was the trusted air chaffeur for even the prime minister... this is about JUDGEMENT of human character...the apologist are coming out of the wood work- They are going on about phsycological testing and all that other crap...this will make the Fort Hood embarrassment in the states look like a high school reunion. IF Harper and the boys get back to work - they will literally have to crawl under a rock if this Russell Williams character is the type of man they appoint to represent Canada abroad - what is this saying? Is it possible that a bunch of pirates have taken over Canada? Do you actually believe the stuff you write? Do you think he put this on his application? And he started this only after the liberals left office? No goverment or PM is responsible for this and trying to tie the 2 together, is stupid. Quote Toronto, like a roach motel in the middle of a pretty living room.
ba1614 Posted February 9, 2010 Report Posted February 9, 2010 Wow, this is close to home for me as I am from this area. Me too, Jessica Lloyd lived about 15kms down the road I live on. It's so sad, we go through life hearing about this stuff but it's never anyone we know, or near us. We are in the sticks out here and this stuff just doesn't happen. This is not about politics. This is about a very sick individual who obviously fooled many many people. It illustrates the old saying that "you just never know" about as well could be. This is also the type of situation that causes me to struggle so much with the capital punishment issue. Quote
ToadBrother Posted February 9, 2010 Report Posted February 9, 2010 I do not want to live in a country where the elected government is intimately involved in the selection of bureaucrats. Then I guess you'd better move to Antarctica or Mars... Quote
ToadBrother Posted February 9, 2010 Report Posted February 9, 2010 Political parties aside, this is a serious case of dropping the ball. Who cleared him to be around our top ministers and PM? Because, of course, his superiors have psychoradar and can tell when there's a killer in their midst (that is alleged killer, nothing has been proven in court). Everything I've seen thus far indicates he was a very well respected career soldier. Sometimes wolves can very much wear sheep's clothing. You don't do regular psychological assessments on officers like this. Why would you? Quote
eyeball Posted February 9, 2010 Report Posted February 9, 2010 This is about a very sick individual who obviously fooled many many people. It illustrates the old saying that "you just never know" about as well could be. This is also the type of situation that causes me to struggle so much with the capital punishment issue. Well for what it's worth, we normally treat sick people we don't execute them. Quote A government without public oversight is like a nuclear plant without lead shielding.
eyeball Posted February 9, 2010 Report Posted February 9, 2010 Because, of course, his superiors have psychoradar and can tell when there's a killer in their midst (that is alleged killer, nothing has been proven in court). Everything I've seen thus far indicates he was a very well respected career soldier. Sometimes wolves can very much wear sheep's clothing. You don't do regular psychological assessments on officers like this. Why would you? Because they're expected to do awful things in insane surroundings. Quote A government without public oversight is like a nuclear plant without lead shielding.
ToadBrother Posted February 9, 2010 Report Posted February 9, 2010 (edited) Because they're expected to do awful things in insane surroundings. As have soldiers for thousands of years. Are you really advocating that people with no signs of psychological trauma or malfunction be forced to go for regular psychological assessments? Furthermore, if you had someone who seemed quite capable of playing the part of the good, responsible soldier, do you think psychologists have some sort of truth-detection powers? Edited February 9, 2010 by ToadBrother Quote
ToadBrother Posted February 9, 2010 Report Posted February 9, 2010 Well for what it's worth, we normally treat sick people we don't execute them. Hell, you don't even want them jailed. Quote
scorpio Posted February 9, 2010 Report Posted February 9, 2010 (edited) This guy is one sick puppy if he did this. As much as I'd love to blame the conservatives, this has nothing whatsoever to do with politics. Keep it real folks. Edited February 9, 2010 by scorpio Quote
M.Dancer Posted February 9, 2010 Report Posted February 9, 2010 Because they're expected to do awful things in insane surroundings. The most awful thing he has done had nothing to do with his career, which for the most part was flying large planes with meals served to passengers, in peaceful suroundings. Quote RIGHT of SOME, LEFT of OTHERS If it is a choice between them and us, I choose us
eyeball Posted February 9, 2010 Report Posted February 9, 2010 As have soldiers for thousands of years. Are you really advocating that people with no signs of psychological trauma or malfunction be forced to go for regular psychological assessments? Yes I do if they're expected to do what soldiers do. Are you telling me they don't do this already? Furthermore, if you had someone who seemed quite capable of playing the part of the good, responsible soldier, do you think psychologists have some sort of truth-detection powers? They might have a better clue what to look for after conducting more research and assessments. A former navy sailor I know, recently told me that the people with the highest rates of PTSD these days are the operators of Predator drones thousands of miles away from the horror of all the death and killing. Conventional wisdom seems to suggest war by wire should be the least stressful but apparently it isn't. Perhaps simply issuing from a distance, the orders to kill people, is no less stressful than pulling the trigger or pushing a button yourself. Quote A government without public oversight is like a nuclear plant without lead shielding.
Wild Bill Posted February 9, 2010 Report Posted February 9, 2010 I do not want to live in a country where the elected government is intimately involved in the selection of bureaucrats. I understand the role for this at the most senior levels (like The CDS and environmental chiefs in a military context, Deputy Ministers, or Chiefs of Staff, when there is a need to impose political will over a whole organization). If there is a weak point for the conservatives, it's that they have done too much of this lower level patronage appointing to other government agencies. I just don't see how or why the promotion of an LCol to Colonel and Wing Commander and, who was by all counts a competent employee, should fall on their laps. I find it very ironic that some of the posters vilifying Harper haven't jumped to defend the accused Colonel. After all, he is Canadian and thus must have all of the rights associated. Perhaps that only would apply if he had stayed a while in Gitmo. Or maybe it only applies to new Canadians and not those native by birth. As for the elected government appointing bureaucrats, it goes quite a bit deeper and goes back to Pearson's day in the 60's. When the forces were unified the top level positions started to become more and more political appointments. In a surprisingly short time they seemed to be more bureaucratic than military. I'm not describing the american system where their president appoints their Chief General. I'm talking about treating high level military promotions by the same criteria as high level civil service promotions. There is a very big problem with doing that. It ignores the concept of honour! A properly run military has it in its very bones. It permeates the entire corp to the point where it is always a factor in leadership and command. In the civil service it is an entirely foreign concept. I'm not saying that if our military was more independent it would have filtered out possible serial killers. Psychopaths can be masterful liars. Still, if there were any negative whisperings about a candidate for promotion in an armed service where honour was a major factor it couldn't help but have an effect on the promotion list. In Canada, there would seem to be little difference in how we promote our top military brass and advancement in the postal service. Again, I'm not advocating giving up all political control of our military. Obviously, the highest level must be accountable to the PM and Parliament. I'm saying that the political control has migrated down too many levels. This has too high a price. Quote "A government which robs Peter to pay Paul can always depend on the support of Paul." -- George Bernard Shaw "There is no point in being difficult when, with a little extra effort, you can be completely impossible."
PIK Posted February 9, 2010 Report Posted February 9, 2010 Reading a story about him, they said he spent time at our secret base in the middle east, I guess it is not a secret now ,but any idea where that would be,we did stay at qatar during the gulf war. Quote Toronto, like a roach motel in the middle of a pretty living room.
eyeball Posted February 9, 2010 Report Posted February 9, 2010 Hell, you don't even want them jailed. Hospitals can be secure places. Between this and your comments on Omar Khadr it's painfully obvious that you think sick people's treatment should mostly include punishment. This is precisely the sort of thing that I think psychological testing should be looking for. I most definitely would not want someone like you being sent into a foreign country to kill people in my name. I probably wouldn't want you to be given the job of policeman or teacher either. Quote A government without public oversight is like a nuclear plant without lead shielding.
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