Harper Gov't delays regulation that would help police track guns,

[robert_viera]

2009-1888 2009-11-26

PSEP

Firearms Act

Regulations Amending the Firearms Marking Regulations

Regulations Amending the FIREARMS MARKING REGULATIONS will allow sufficient time to analyze additional marking options not previously considered, in order to arrive at a new and more stakeholder-appropriate system, including a proposal from the firearms industry to place the information required by international treaties on metallic strips. This proposal seeks to defer the implementation date for one year, to December 1, 2010.

Registration: SOR/2009-0313 Publication Date: 2009-12-09

Source: http://www.pco-bcp.gc.ca/oic-ddc.asp?lang=eng&Page=secretariats&txtOICID=&txtFromDate=2009-11-07&txtToDate=2009-11-30&txtPrecis=&txtDepartment=&txtAct=&txtChapterNo=&txtChapterYear=&txtBillNo=&rdoComingIntoForce=&DoSearch=Search+%2F+List&pg=4

These regulations had already been delayed two years by the Harper Government. The previous Liberal government also delayed these regulations for 2 years when they were in office. This makes for 5 years of putting off the kind of regulations that the United States has had since 1968!

Here is an article with some background information on the issue:

Harper government delays measure to mark gun imports

http://www.canada.com/cityguides/winnipeg/info/story.html?id=20540780-078b-4bc8-8120-132e7fbf3ae5&k=51525

[myata]

Harper's government does not believe that guns are a problem. They believe in the southern approach, no restriction on guns and lots of "tough justice". Who cares that the crime rates are highest in the civilized world, as long as ideology is served.

This is perhaps the one agenda where "small" government a la CPC is not on the list. No, let's not invest into infrastructure, services and the environment. Instead, we'll build more jails and put more police officers on the streets.

[Shady]

no restriction on guns

There are currently many, many, many, restrictions on guns. Restrictions in which the Harper government has no interest in repealing.

[madmax]

There are currently many, many, many, restrictions on guns. Restrictions in which the Harper government has no interest in repealing.

Get the imported guns marked and get on with it. If it saves the cops time in investigating, its money saved for the tax payers and the faster they can trace the faster crimes get solved.

[Shady]

Get the imported guns marked and get on with it. If it saves the cops time in investigating, its money saved for the tax payers and the faster they can trace the faster crimes get solved.

I would agree. Although I'd like to know what the reason is for the delay. Because what government wouldn't want to brag about faster crime solving, faster investigating, and saving tax payers money?

There's always another side to the issue.

[myata]

There are currently many, many, many, restrictions on guns. Restrictions in which the Harper government has no interest in repealing.

Just wait till these folks lay their hands on majority. We all may be surprised at what they'd like to repeal (and introduce). They are showing us all very clearly, even now, that with them, ideology will always trump common sense, science, freedom, transparency, openness and you name it.

[zeister]

Source: http://www.pco-bcp.gc.ca/oic-ddc.asp?lang=eng&Page=secretariats&txtOICID=&txtFromDate=2009-11-07&txtToDate=2009-11-30&txtPrecis=&txtDepartment=&txtAct=&txtChapterNo=&txtChapterYear=&txtBillNo=&rdoComingIntoForce=&DoSearch=Search+%2F+List&pg=4

These regulations had already been delayed two years by the Harper Government. The previous Liberal government also delayed these regulations for 2 years when they were in office. This makes for 5 years of putting off the kind of regulations that the United States has had since 1968!

Here is an article with some background information on the issue:

Harper government delays measure to mark gun imports

http://www.canada.com/cityguides/winnipeg/info/story.html?id=20540780-078b-4bc8-8120-132e7fbf3ae5&k=51525

The use of import markings in the U.S. is spotty at best. This program should pass a cost/benefit analysis before being implemented as the negative effects on industry, jobs and citizens of this program are considerable. It is all too obvious that fiscal concerns were not addressed in the original Liberal legislation. Better to amend bad regulations at the beginning rather than backtracking later.

Also, where is the evidence that such markings are required? My firearms are marked with the origin of manufacture and have a unique serial number so it would appear these regulations are duplicating information at considerable cost with no demonstrated need.

[zeister]

Get the imported guns marked and get on with it. If it saves the cops time in investigating, its money saved for the tax payers and the faster they can trace the faster crimes get solved.

There is no demonstrated need for these regulations other than a Liberal anti-firearms agenda. How does the marking of country and date lead to a conviction? They don't. I expect government programs to be justified and costed beforehand - a chronic Liberal failing.

[zeister]

Just wait till these folks lay their hands on majority. We all may be surprised at what they'd like to repeal (and introduce). They are showing us all very clearly, even now, that with them, ideology will always trump common sense, science, freedom, transparency, openness and you name it.

It is always amusing to see the political left trying to regain the moral high ground. Unfortunately the recent history of the Liberal governments makes it near impossible. Selective memory helps as well as a dogged belief in your party's mantra. The history of the long gun registry exposes the Liberal agenda and willingness to do whatever it takes to win - barring nothing! The Liberals ignored and continue to ignore the science connected with registration. Their whole history on the gun issue has turned me off them. Mr. Ignatieff offers nothing more than more of a failed program. That fact alone speaks volumes.

[zeister]

Harper's government does not believe that guns are a problem. They believe in the southern approach, no restriction on guns and lots of "tough justice". Who cares that the crime rates are highest in the civilized world, as long as ideology is served.

This is perhaps the one agenda where "small" government a la CPC is not on the list. No, let's not invest into infrastructure, services and the environment. Instead, we'll build more jails and put more police officers on the streets.

I remember in the 1960s I could buy all sorts of war surplus firearms, including fully automatic,on Yonge St. in Toronto. There were no restrictions and there was no gun problem!

What has changed? Toronto has 80+ urban gangs that are engaged in all manner of crime. They are the market for illegal firearms. The problem is gangs and policing. Like many you mistakingly blame guns. That is a sucker game that is not winnable. To date the negative impact has been on law abiding sportsmen that are demonised by the Firearms Act and the taxpayer whose taxes have been wasted on a failed gun control program. There will be no improvement in urban security until the gangs are suppressed. The political left has made the gang problem possible but do not have a legitimate program to reverse the situation. Partisan politics aid the criminal and victimise our citizens. Quit being part of the problem!

[Shakeyhands]

To date the negative impact has been on law abiding sportsmen that are demonised by the Firearms Act

Please explain how the law aiding sportsman has been demonized?

[DrGreenthumb]

Please explain how the law aiding sportsman has been demonized?

He can't because they havn't been. Typical right wing crap. Christians are demonized too didn't ya know? The country has become so bigoted against Christians that we barely get all our religious holy days as national holidays anymore.

[nicky10013]

I remember in the 1960s I could buy all sorts of war surplus firearms, including fully automatic,on Yonge St. in Toronto. There were no restrictions and there was no gun problem!

What has changed? Toronto has 80+ urban gangs that are engaged in all manner of crime. They are the market for illegal firearms. The problem is gangs and policing. Like many you mistakingly blame guns. That is a sucker game that is not winnable. To date the negative impact has been on law abiding sportsmen that are demonised by the Firearms Act and the taxpayer whose taxes have been wasted on a failed gun control program. There will be no improvement in urban security until the gangs are suppressed. The political left has made the gang problem possible but do not have a legitimate program to reverse the situation. Partisan politics aid the criminal and victimise our citizens. Quit being part of the problem!

I'd like to know how the Canadian Left is causing the problem. "Supressing" the gangs isn't as easy as you seem to think it is. The cops here in Toronto run two or three programs a year and round up 150-250 people each time yet gangs are still a gigantic problem. Throwing people in jail isn't the solution, it's a band-aid on a broken leg. The conservative plan to fight crime doesn't address any social problems which cause crime. The biggest factor is poverty. What would a kid rather do for his life? Work at Macdonalds or be part of something more? I'm lifting this from the West Wing but one of the characters couldn't have put it better. He said that men will be men and men will seek pride. Gangs offer that. Gangs are something someone can be a part of, have loyalty in, be proud of. Not to mention it's a cash cow. How do we fight that?

Education is the silver bullet to pretty much every societal problem. Until we can educate everyone equally, get everyone involved in some kind of after school activity like sports, one of the solutions is to get as many guns off the street as possible. No one is demonising the Canadian Sportsman, they're just demonising the weapons. I don't care how long you have to wait, in the end if you want to hunt deer they'll be there after you go through 10 security checks.

[noahbody]

These regulations had already been delayed two years by the Harper Government. The previous Liberal government also delayed these regulations for 2 years when they were in office. This makes for 5 years of putting off the kind of regulations that the United States has had since 1968!

Guns made in North America already have serial numbers, so marking them a second way accomplishes nothing. We know where they're from.

[robert_viera]

Guns made in North America already have serial numbers, so marking them a second way accomplishes nothing. We know where they're from.

This proposed regulation would only apply to legally imported guns. The fact that a gun made in the U.S. has a serial number does not tell us whether it was legally imported. This regulation is not about marking where a gun originated. It's about marking guns that are legally imported so they can be distinguished from guns that are illegally smuggled into Canada.

[Wilber]

This proposed regulation would only apply to legally imported guns. The fact that a gun made in the U.S. has a serial number does not tell us whether it was legally imported. This regulation is not about marking where a gun originated. It's about marking guns that are legally imported so they can be distinguished from guns that are illegally smuggled into Canada.

Uh, why not just record the serial numbers of guns that are legally imported? Why do you need to mark them with something else? The serial number will give you the date of manufacture and if it isn't in the database of guns legally imported since that date, it could be regarded as illegally imported. I'm not sure what that knowledge would actually be good for but you would know.

With regard to handguns and other restricted weapons, the regulations regarding their ownership and possession makes the whole thing somewhat superfluous. If you are in possession of a weapon illegally, it shouldn't really matter how it was imported.

[robert_viera]

Uh, why not just record the serial numbers of guns that are legally imported? Why do you need to mark them with something else? The serial number will give you the date of manufacture and if it isn't in the database of guns legally imported since that date, it could be regarded as illegally imported. I'm not sure what that knowledge would actually be good for but you would know.

If you mark guns that are legally imported, then you don't need to check a database to see if they were legally imported. Given the amount of hostility the anti-gun-control crowd has shown toward databases, I would think they'd be in favour of marking.

With regard to handguns and other restricted weapons, the regulations regarding their ownership and possession makes the whole thing somewhat superfluous. If you are in possession of a weapon illegally, it shouldn't really matter how it was imported.

It matters to the people who are trying to cut off the supply of illegally imported guns.

Edited January 14, 2010 by robert_viera

[Wilber]

If you mark guns that are legally imported, then you don't need to check a database to see if they were legally imported. Given the amount of hostility the anti-gun-control crowd has shown toward databases, I would think they'd be in favour of marking.

If the idea is just to determine whether a gun was imported legally or not, who's name would be in the data base?

It matters to the people who are trying to cut off the supply of illegally imported guns.

And how exactly would it help them?

[noahbody]

If you mark guns that are legally imported, then you don't need to check a database to see if they were legally imported.

You need to run the serial # regardless, don't you? (hint: yes)

It matters to the people who are trying to cut off the supply of illegally imported guns.

Maybe on an emotional level. But the reality is it does nothing.

[robert_viera]

If the idea is just to determine whether a gun was imported legally or not, who's name would be in the data base?

You don't need a database. That's the point.

And how exactly would it help them?

Why not ask the police, who are in favour of this regulation.

[robert_viera]

You need to run the serial # regardless, don't you? (hint: yes)

Maybe on an emotional level. But the reality is it does nothing.

The anti-gun-control crowd in Canada needs to wake-up to one important fact. Canada is not the U.S.A. You do not have a constitutional right to bear arms. If you're not willing to put up with a bit of paperwork and some other minor regulations like this one, then maybe you shouldn't be allowed to have a gun at all.

Here's another important fact. Canadians in favour of gun control are the majority in this country. If you don't like it, tough.

[Wilber]

The anti-gun-control crowd in Canada needs to wake-up to one important fact. Canada is not the U.S.A. You do not have a constitutional right to bear arms. If you're not willing to put up with a bit of paperwork and some other minor regulations like this one, then maybe you shouldn't be allowed to have a gun at all.

Here's another important fact. Canadians in favour of gun control are the majority in this country. If you don't like it, tough.

Who's anti gun control? I just don't want government pissing away money on things that have little use. So the police find a gun that was illegally imported. What does that knowledge do for them or anyone else?

[robert_viera]

Who's anti gun control? I just don't want government pissing away money on things that have little use. So the police find a gun that was illegally imported. What does that knowledge do for them or anyone else?

I can't see how marking would cost the government anything. It would certainly cost the gun importer, and ultimately their customer. If the customer doesn't want to pay for the cost of marking, they can buy Canadian.

This is a regulation that is already on the books. It's implementation has been delayed 5 years already by successive governments who are coddling the gun importers. We've given the gun importers more than enough time to get their act together.

[Bugs]

When did you ever hear of a gun law being enforced? When the coppers bust in the door and find the drugs, money, and guns ... which are often stored together ... the theory is that gun possession increases the penalty.

Anyone remember that being in the papers? The sentence is supposed to be a deterrent to crime.

Hmmmm?

What makes gun control doubly farcical is that it is only enforced on rural people who have guns for practical reasons.

Edited January 14, 2010 by Bugs

[Shakeyhands]

To date the negative impact has been on law abiding sportsmen that are demonised by the Firearms Act

I guess I'm not going to get an answer from Zeister about this, any of you others hold this belief?