Harper Gov't delays regulation that would help police track guns,

[Wilber]

That's right. I don't own a gun and I don't like them. I think most people who own guns without a very good reason are either anti-social or cowards who want to have a gun as a last resort for solving their problems. History is just that, history. Canada isn't the Wild West or a frontier anymore. Most Canadians live in cities.

What else don't you like and would like to see banned based on your own personal prejudices?

[robert_viera]

What else don't you like and would like to see banned based on your own personal prejudices?

Nice try. I never said I was in favour of banning guns.

This thread isn't about the gun registry and it isn't about banning guns, so you needn't bother putting up those straw men.

Edited January 16, 2010 by robert_viera

[Wilber]

Nice try. I never said I was in favour of banning guns.

This thread isn't about the gun registry and it isn't about banning guns, so you needn't bother putting up those straw men.

Read your own post. Your whole position is based on your own personal bias and assumptions about the motives and character of others.

That's right. I don't own a gun and I don't like them. I think most people who own guns without a very good reason are either anti-social or cowards who want to have a gun as a last resort for solving their problems. History is just that, history. Canada isn't the Wild West or a frontier anymore. Most Canadians live in cities.

[zeister]

News flash: We're not in England. Canada has a Charter of Rights and Freedoms, not a Bill of Rights, and yes, we do as a nation have the right to pass laws to deny people the privilege (it's not a right) of owning a gun and to regulate those that we do allow to own guns.

That's right. I don't own a gun and I don't like them. I think most people who own guns without a very good reason are either anti-social or cowards who want to have a gun as a last resort for solving their problems. History is just that, history. Canada isn't the Wild West or a frontier anymore. Most Canadians live in cities.

Semantics. You and I will never see eye to eye on this topic. Yes, about 85% of Canadians live in cities. So??? What has our firearms culture to do with where one lives? I lived in TO for 30 years and owned firearms. You seem to think that democracy is the tyranny of the majority. Our system is tyranny by a minority. Individual rights must be protected from such as you that are willing to give away or deny rights based on your personal bias and obvious limited knowledge of all the issues. It would be wasted effort to dig further as your mind was made up when this issue was raised.

[zeister]

If you had read the article linked to in my original post, you wouldn't need to ask. Here's an excerpt:

It's not just the Chiefs. It's the front-line police (Police Association) and civilian oversight boards.

You speak about the case against marking, but you post no links and make no points yourself.

I consistently ask for a justification for the need of this additional barrel marking. It is redundant. You have yet to present a decent defense and justification.

We go around and around on this police issue. Your citations ignore the significant numbers of police that do not support the long gun registry (the OPP et al). I suggest you move on. Police statements without proof are nothing more than opinion. Again, what are the politics of the quoted sources and who donates to them? The Chiefs Assoc. have a clear conflict of interest. How about the others or does that only matter for those not in your camp?

It is difficult to discuss these issues on blogs because I usually have my questions ignored in favour of time worn rhetoric that adds nothing to the body of understanding. FOR the LAST time, firearms have a place of manufacture and unique serial number stamped on them. This makes them traceable. At least that is the position of the firearms industry. The Police have never explained how the additional markings will help solve a crime. Some police made similar claims for the long gun registry and we all know how that failed to pan out.

I don't think you have convinced any readers to join your side based on what you have written here.

[zeister]

Where's you're source for the claim that marking will cost "billions of dollars and the loss of thousands of jobs"?

As for shooting being a sport, any activity that can be done competitively might be considered a sport. There are plenty of other choices out there that don't endanger society.

Check Stats Canada if you are really interested.

Your bias is showing again. You have made no case for ending our gun culture. Emotion, personal bias, ignorance etc are NOT a basis for framing legislation. Why should millions give up their culture based on your pitiful rant? You have yet to present any evidence that gun sports 'endanger society'. Perhaps you should put your energies into a simpler topics that address the real threats to our society, i.e. organised crime and poor social conditions.

[robert_viera]

Semantics. You and I will never see eye to eye on this topic. Yes, about 85% of Canadians live in cities. So??? What has our firearms culture to do with where one lives? I lived in TO for 30 years and owned firearms. You seem to think that democracy is the tyranny of the majority. Our system is tyranny by a minority. Individual rights must be protected from such as you that are willing to give away or deny rights based on your personal bias and obvious limited knowledge of all the issues. It would be wasted effort to dig further as your mind was made up when this issue was raised.

Owning a gun isn't a 'right' in Canada.

People who live in rural areas and who use a rifle to hunt for food or to protect livestock from predators have legitimate reasons for owning a firearm that people who live in cities don't have.

[robert_viera]

I consistently ask for a justification for the need of this additional barrel marking. It is redundant. You have yet to present a decent defense and justification.

Again, from the article:

The police leaders told Day that import marking helps police trace guns involved in crime even if their serial numbers are obliterated. The system can shorten firearm tracing times to "hours versus months," the letter said.

We go around and around on this police issue. Your citations ignore the significant numbers of police that do not support the long gun registry (the OPP et al).

Nice try. This isn't about the long gun registry.

I suggest you move on. Police statements without proof are nothing more than opinion. Again, what are the politics of the quoted sources and who donates to them? The Chiefs Assoc. have a clear conflict of interest. How about the others or does that only matter for those not in your camp?

I'll take the opinion of the people that actually have to deal with gun crime over some anonymous poster in an Internet forum making allegations about police corruption but offering no evidence whatsoever.

Edited January 19, 2010 by robert_viera

[robert_viera]

Check Stats Canada if you are really interested.

Baloney! If you're telling the truth you'll have no trouble posting a link to the source of your claim that import marking will cost "billions of dollars and the loss of thousands of jobs". My prediction: you won't post a link because you haven't got one.

[Wilber]

Again, from the article:

The police leaders told Day that import marking helps police trace guns involved in crime even if their serial numbers are obliterated. The system can shorten firearm tracing times to "hours versus months," the letter said.

How? Don't you want to know?

[maple_leafs182]

Governments constantly try to give solutions to problems they created by enforcing laws and regulations,

this won't solve anything.

Let's legalize drugs so gangs and terrorist groups don't have a billion dollar black market to fund operations.

Gangs and street violence would reduce dramatically as it did after America legalized alcohol.

Also I think actually solving poverty instead of saying "we are working on it" would solve many social problems.

Lets try curing the disease instead of the symptoms.

[robert_viera]

They've done it again:

2010-1497 2010-11-26

PS

Firearms Act

Regulations Amending the Firearms Marking Regulations

Regulations Amending the FIREARMS MARKING REGULATIONS in order to defer the coming into force of the Regulations for two years until December 1, 2012.

Registration: SOR/2010-0276 Publication Date: 2010-12-08

This time they've put off the regulations for another two years!

The Conservatives try to portray themselves as the party of law-and-order, but they've shamefully delayed these regulations that police support in order to please the gun lobby.

And that's not all ...

2010-1496 2010-11-26

PS

Firearms Act

Regulations Amending the Gun Shows Regulations

REGULATIONS AMENDING THE GUN SHOWS REGULATIONS, in order to postpone the date on which they come into force from November 30, 2010 to November 30, 2012.

Registration: SOR/2010-0275 Publication Date: 2010-12-08

You can't be tough-on-crime when you put the interests of the gun lobby ahead of public safety.

Edited December 4, 2010 by robert_viera

[Wild Bill]

They've done it again:

This time they've put off the regulations for another two years!

The Conservatives try to portray themselves as the party of law-and-order, but they've shamefully delayed these regulations that police support in order to please the gun lobby.

And that's not all ...

You can't be tough-on-crime when you put the interests of the gun lobby ahead of public safety.

I'm not familiar with these regulations but going by your second quote, are these the only things that could stop the thousands of firearm-related deaths every year at gun shows?

[Saipan]

This makes for 5 years of putting off the kind of regulations that the United States has had since 1968!

That's a good one

So in USA they are putting stickers on oily guns?

To what purpose, since they do not register them?

[yarg]

I'll take the opinion of the people that actually have to deal with gun crime over some anonymous poster in an Internet forum making allegations about police corruption but offering no evidence whatsoever.

Well, i could tell you all about how the chiefs of police association accepted donations from the company that built the overpriced computer network that the registry ran on, or show you proof that the toronto police department used tax payer money to lobby the government against gun owners, and prove how closely they work with the coalition for gun control and in turn how closely it works with IANSA the goals of which are to BAN all firearms, and then there are now the numerous incidents where that same police force has lied and or trampled on peoples rights, and no doubt prove that the vast majority of the leaders of these police groups have very tight connections to former and current liberal politicos.

BUT, idiots don't listen

[Jack Weber]

They've done it again:

This time they've put off the regulations for another two years!

The Conservatives try to portray themselves as the party of law-and-order, but they've shamefully delayed these regulations that police support in order to please the gun lobby.

And that's not all ...

You can't be tough-on-crime when you put the interests of the gun lobby ahead of public safety.

I wonder what Vic Toews thinks about this???

He's usually blathering on the talking points of victims rights??

Sounds like the Con's are more interested in assisting their corporate firearm benefactors?

[Saipan]

The Conservatives try to portray themselves as the party of law-and-order, but they've shamefully delayed these regulations that police support in order to please the gun lobby.

Half of Canada is "gun lobby"? Did you bother to check the vote in the House? 150 to 153.

You can't be tough-on-crime when you put the interests of the gun lobby ahead of public safety.

WHAT that has to do with public safety???

[Saipan]

Sounds like the Con's are more interested in assisting their corporate firearm benefactors?

1) Who are those "benefactors"?

2) How exactly does that work? SPECIFICS.

3) How many times can those "benefactors" vote?

[robert_viera]

Well, i could tell you all about how the chiefs of police association accepted donations from the company that built the overpriced computer network that the registry ran on, or show you proof that the toronto police department used tax payer money to lobby the government against gun owners, and prove how closely they work with the coalition for gun control and in turn how closely it works with IANSA the goals of which are to BAN all firearms, and then there are now the numerous incidents where that same police force has lied and or trampled on peoples rights, and no doubt prove that the vast majority of the leaders of these police groups have very tight connections to former and current liberal politicos.

BUT, idiots don't listen

It seems that idiots don't read either. This thread is not about the gun registry.

[robert_viera]

Half of Canada is "gun lobby"? Did you bother to check the vote in the House? 150 to 153.

That vote was about the gun registry. This thread is about regulations which would require gun importers to mark legally imported guns so that police can distinguish them from illegally-smuggled guns.

WHAT that has to do with public safety???

The marking regulations allow police to trace firearms used in crimes more quickly.

[robert_viera]

Gun tracing regulations delayed for third time by Harper government

http://www.winnipegfreepress.com/canada/breakingnews/gun-tracing-regulations-delayed-for-third-time-by-harper-government--111348704.html

[Saipan]

That vote was about the gun registry. This thread is about regulations which would require gun importers to mark legally imported guns so that police can distinguish them from illegally-smuggled guns.

HOW does that work? And to WHAT purpose?

Registration of handguns did NOT stop homicide rate here. In fact it's higher than even during the Great Depression.

The marking regulations allow police to trace firearms used in crimes more quickly.

HOW?

[Battletoads]

No surprises there, in Harper's mind guns are the answer not the problem.

[Saipan]

No surprises there, in Harper's mind guns are the answer not the problem.

How did you get into Harper's mind, yet unable to get into your own?

[robert_viera]

HOW does that work? And to WHAT purpose?

From the article I linked to above:

Back in 2007, just before the Harper government postponed the firearms marking regulations for a second time, the three national associations representing police in Canada joined forces to plead for implementation.

"This can make the difference between a firearm trace taking hours versus months," said a jointly written letter to the government by associations representing police, police chiefs and police boards.

Current laws state that all firearms must have a serial number, or firearms identification number, according to the ministry of public safety.

The new regulations would require firearm manufacturers to include a marking that would indicate the origin of the firearm, and for imported firearms, the last two digits of the year it was imported.

The police associations' letter gives the example of a Beretta used in a crime in Canada. The firearm is made in Italy and typically sold to Canadian gun shops through large American distributors.

"Without an import marking physically present on the firearm, it would be unknown whether the firearm was diverted from lawful possession in Italy, the U.S.A. or Canada. Police would have to determine that through a time-consuming records check with the U.S.A. and Italy," the letter says.

"The presence of a Canadian import mark instantly identifies the firearm as having been legally admitted to Canada. In such cases, police can limit their search to domestic databases."

The police associations also argue that over time import marks would help police "answer the question of whether firearms involved in Canadian crime are smuggled (into the country) or diverted domestically."

Source: http://www.winnipegfreepress.com/canada/breakingnews/gun-tracing-regulations-delayed-for-third-time-by-harper-government--111348704.html

Registration of handguns did NOT stop homicide rate here. In fact it's higher than even during the Great Depression.

This thread is about firearms marking regulations, not the gun registry.