zeister

Check Stats Canada if you are really interested. Your bias is showing again. You have made no case for ending our gun culture. Emotion, personal bias, ignorance etc are NOT a basis for framing legislation. Why should millions give up their culture based on your pitiful rant? You have yet to present any evidence that gun sports 'endanger society'. Perhaps you should put your energies into a simpler topics that address the real threats to our society, i.e. organised crime and poor social conditions.

I consistently ask for a justification for the need of this additional barrel marking. It is redundant. You have yet to present a decent defense and justification. We go around and around on this police issue. Your citations ignore the significant numbers of police that do not support the long gun registry (the OPP et al). I suggest you move on. Police statements without proof are nothing more than opinion. Again, what are the politics of the quoted sources and who donates to them? The Chiefs Assoc. have a clear conflict of interest. How about the others or does that only matter for those not in your camp? It is difficult to discuss these issues on blogs because I usually have my questions ignored in favour of time worn rhetoric that adds nothing to the body of understanding. FOR the LAST time, firearms have a place of manufacture and unique serial number stamped on them. This makes them traceable. At least that is the position of the firearms industry. The Police have never explained how the additional markings will help solve a crime. Some police made similar claims for the long gun registry and we all know how that failed to pan out. I don't think you have convinced any readers to join your side based on what you have written here.

Semantics. You and I will never see eye to eye on this topic. Yes, about 85% of Canadians live in cities. So??? What has our firearms culture to do with where one lives? I lived in TO for 30 years and owned firearms. You seem to think that democracy is the tyranny of the majority. Our system is tyranny by a minority. Individual rights must be protected from such as you that are willing to give away or deny rights based on your personal bias and obvious limited knowledge of all the issues. It would be wasted effort to dig further as your mind was made up when this issue was raised.

Yes, ANY government's position IS a political one. You can deny reality about the police all you like but that does not change the facts. If anything it confirms you as offering nothing more than a biased opinion by an outsider with no first hand knowledge of the issues and too dogmatic to even seek the truth.

Aside from criminals, who constitutes the 'anti-gun-control crowd' in Canada? Sport shooters have been vocal in recognising the positive public safety contribution of licensing. We have no objection to vetting applicants on the basis of criminal convictions or mental problems. We have no objection to national level safety training and safe storage standards. What we do object to is the arrogant political agenda the Liberals used and their incompetence and unwillingness to negotiate standards and regulations that would have met the needs of ALL Canadians. Hence, the boondoggle of the long gun registry. As a group we consistently put our money and volunteer time into supporting not only our sport but also fish and wildlife conservation programs. In that sense we are perhaps better citizens than those that deride our firearms culture. Our combined activities pump about ten billion $ per Year into the Canadian economy. I see very little of substance coming from the anti-gun folks. Their misdirected anger continues to be part of the problem.

Two billion $ wasted on a long gun registry that did NOT contribute to public safety. If we can't control the gangs then we had better arm the populace so they can defend themselves. See where this is going? No more feel good programs like the long gun registry. If you can't suppress the gangs in the short term then how do you expect to tackle the social problems?

I would have to see the full proof on this statement by the police. They have a history of opinion often based on politics but NOT on science. It would be surprising if their letter contained a fully documented position as they would NOT be able to show the science supporting the position. American writers spend a good deal of effort debunking such statements. My position is 'prove it'. I am past taking Liberal legislation on faith.

Would it not provide greater public safety by simply suppressing the gangs that create the demand for illegal firearms? That IS the basic problem with guns. Playing the technocrat game solves nothing but does waste resources.

You have not thought this through. There is an economic loss in the billions of dollars and the loss of thousands of jobs. The need still has not been shown or fully explained. There are NO Canadian made sporting arms save a handful of custom made pieces. Your rant is strictly emotional. Bad law is still bad law.

You should perhaps start your review of constitutional gun rights with the English Bill of Rights, 1689. You have been listening to the Liberal Party's view of history. There is more and you will be surprised by what you find. We are not the U.S. but we do have an ancient gun culture. Our Constitution and Bill of Rights do not bar us from individual firearms ownership. They are living documents and can be amended as it would seem is now appropriate to defend an ancient right. Rights like common law rely on precident and so it is with gun rights. You may not want a firearm but you do not have the right to deny another that opportunity. It is all too obvious that you do not like guns, own a gun or even understand all the issues surrounding gun control. That is a poor basis for debate. The anti-gun position relies heavily on emotion, personal bias, a lack of knowledge of firearms, a lack of knowledge of Canadian gun culture, our history and our legal history and science. Quoting anti-gun groups or Liberal attitudes without a sound scientific basis is a fool's errand without worth so spare us that in reply.

Which group of police might that be? I suspect this is like the long gun registry. Police like the Chief's Assoc. tow the political line of their mayor's while front line police Stand against the registry as wasteful of scarce resources. I have yet to see a full and logical defence of the need for extra marking. I have seen the case against marking and it is difficult to dismiss unless of course one is simply anti-firearms. Our police require independent oversight. Their opinion should ALWAYS be justified by the science as all too often it is politically based or influenced by large donations as in the case of the Assoc. of Chief's of Police.

CORRECTION. Canadian spotsmen/women recognise the value of reasonable gun control and support it individually and through our umbrella organisations. We recognise that vetting ownership through background checks, national firearms training and storage standards contributes to greater public safety. Where we bulk is at a program with no proven public safety worth that is a fiscal disgrace and an unfair burden to sportsmen. The anti-firearms lobby continually lumps the two programs, licensing and registration, together so the worth of one disguises the worthlessness of the other.

Look at it this way. The paper trail already exists from manufacturer to importer to retailer to buyer. We wish to dump the worthless long gun registry, not just switch the peons to creating new record systems that duplicate basic information. Canada does not produce unmarked weapons for third world conflicts. Neither do our citizens acqire weapons without manufacturers marking and unique serial numbers. Therefore the only practical use of the marking legislation is to further harass Canadian firearms owners. N.B. The world's largest suppliers of military hardware have already indicated they will ignore this UN initiative.

If you read the Firearms Act in detail you will note the regulations are framed assuming that citizens WILL offend. Hence a criminal record and confiscation of firearms for what amounts to a paper crime - not having or letting your license lapse. The penalties are similar to those given convicted felons the difference being there is no trial and action is at the whim of the police. The media and anti-gun lobby have been quick to pick up this thread. Comments from Alan Rock and others describing our gun culture as a "hobby" are both ignorant of reality and amount to an attempt at cultural cleansing. Yes, we are late comers to lobbying but have been forced to lobby in defence of our historic rights.

I remember in the 1960s I could buy all sorts of war surplus firearms, including fully automatic,on Yonge St. in Toronto. There were no restrictions and there was no gun problem! What has changed? Toronto has 80+ urban gangs that are engaged in all manner of crime. They are the market for illegal firearms. The problem is gangs and policing. Like many you mistakingly blame guns. That is a sucker game that is not winnable. To date the negative impact has been on law abiding sportsmen that are demonised by the Firearms Act and the taxpayer whose taxes have been wasted on a failed gun control program. There will be no improvement in urban security until the gangs are suppressed. The political left has made the gang problem possible but do not have a legitimate program to reverse the situation. Partisan politics aid the criminal and victimise our citizens. Quit being part of the problem!