Afghanistan and Oil

[waldo]

Iran nearly had a 'regime change' when they apparently rigged the last election to favor Mr Ahmedadinnerjacket. I'd imagine it'll be more a waiting game...waiting for Iran to trip and fall. Then comes the velvet hammer. That'd be my guess

let's not forget about those ongoing revelations of voter fraud/rigged elections in Afghanistan - speculation abounds as to whether or not a new election will be called... some suggest not, since the fraud appears to favour the current in-progress "regime change" puppet Karzai.

[bush_cheney2004]

bingo! Then why the false campaign lead up to the Iraqi war... why the Rice WMD dance and her mushroom cloud pronouncements... why the Powell charade at the UN... why the incessant Bush rhetoric over Iraqi links to Al Qaeda... why the campaign to link Iraq to 9/11, etc., etc., etc? After all... you had your Iraq Liberation Act of 1998 in the bag!

Because Congress insisted.....helps to keep them in the game.

The campaign wasn't false.....just ask Saddam!

[waldo]

Because Congress insisted.....helps to keep them in the game.

The campaign wasn't false.....just ask Saddam!

I thought Bush was more worldly, more a global thinker ... I did not realize that the carefully orchestrated campaign of misinformation was simply to deceive your Congress and presume to validate the very existence of one of the foundations of your government. Why do you hate your freedoms?

and yes... is the mission accomplished? Any truth to whether or not Bush sleeps with Saddam's pistol under his pillow?

[bush_cheney2004]

I thought Bush was more worldly, more a global thinker ... I did not realize that the carefully orchestrated campaign of misinformation was simply to deceive your Congress and presume to validate the very existence of one of the foundations of your government. Why do you hate your freedoms?

It a constitutional thing.....war resolutions...etc., etc. In Canada, the PM can (and did) bloody well start wars and bomb people without so much as a vote in Parliament.....very convenient.

and yes... is the mission accomplished? Any truth to whether or not Bush sleeps with Saddam's pistol under his pillow?

Yes....there has been a regime change in Iraq. Saddam's spider hole pistol was last seen at SMU, waiting for a nice display case in President Bush's big ass library....much nicer than a stained blue dress....I think.

[fellowtraveller]

No kidding its got nothing worth fighting over yet there we are anyway because Afghanistan happens to be adjacent to the same region we started fighting over years ago, for oil.

In some circles this is considered hilarious.

I did not say Afghanistan had nothing worth fighting over, I just again pointed out that this sctick about oil there is utter bullshit.

And what 'region' are you talkiong about? To the north : not much. To the south and east, no oil in pakistan. To the west, p,lenty in Iran but they already sell it to anybody.

The ME is far away, maybe you could invest in a map or ask your teacher for a few minutes at the globe.

[M.Dancer]

I did not say Afghanistan had nothing worth fighting over, I just again pointed out that this sctick about oil there is utter bullshit.

Of course it is but that won't stop them mentioning it over and over again.

[fellowtraveller]

Afghanistan is a source of disruption in the same corner of Asia as Korea and China. It seems to me that there is more than what meets the eye there. Wheels within wheels so to speak. I think they are being played as pawns in a much larger game.

Kabul and North Korea are over 5000 kms apart.

[eyeball]

I did not say Afghanistan had nothing worth fighting over, I just again pointed out that this sctick about oil there is utter bullshit.

And what 'region' are you talkiong about? To the north : not much. To the south and east, no oil in pakistan. To the west, p,lenty in Iran but they already sell it to anybody.

The ME is far away, maybe you could invest in a map or ask your teacher for a few minutes at the globe.

I never said there was any oil in Afghanistan but you nailed it. Iran is where the west started squabbling over oil in the region and that fight pretty much ballooned into a quagmire that now stretches halfway around the world even to New York and back to Afghanistan.

Keep it up and I suspect one day the 'region' will be a globe approximately 40,000 kms in circumference.

[bush_cheney2004]

Of course it is but that won't stop them mentioning it over and over again.

Come listen to a story about a man named Ahmed

A poor cave mountaineer, barely kept his family fed,

Then one day he was shootin' at some food,

And up from the ground came a bubblin' crude.

Oil that is, black gold, Afghanistan tea.

Well the first thing you know Ahmed's a millionaire,

His kinfolk said, 'Hey, move away from there!'

They said, 'Toronto is the place you oughtta be.'

So, they loaded up the donkey and moved to Rosedalee.

Bridle Path, that is, Swimmin' pools, movie stars.

Well now its time to say goodbye to Ahmed and all his kin.

And they would like to thank you folks fer kindly droppin' in.

You're all invited back next week to this locality

To have a heapin' helpin' of their NATO hospitality

Taliban that is. Set a spell, (don't) Take your shoes off.

Y'all come back now, y'hear?

[Oleg Bach]

We need more oil and dirt in the air.. We need more consumers that are the grunts of the system that are being consumed by the very system they assume they are consuming.

[Jerry J. Fortin]

Kabul and North Korea are over 5000 kms apart.

Your point is?

[Moonlight Graham]

The U.S. needs the oil in the middle-east. 56% of all world oil reserves are in the middle-east. Saudi Arabia has the most, with 20% of all the world's oil (Canada is actually #2 suprisingly, with 13%). The U.S. only has 1.54% of the world's oil reserves.

The U.S. needs to control the oil & have as much access to it as possible to keep the prices down. They may not have a lot of oil, but the sure use a lot of it.

some links: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oil_reserves#...rves_by_country

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_count...en_oil_reserves

[bush_cheney2004]

....The U.S. needs to control the oil & have as much access to it as possible to keep the prices down. They may not have a lot of oil, but the sure use a lot of it.

The USA is a major oil producer and consumer...far more than Canada on both counts But even as the USA consumes 25% of the world's 80 million bpd production, Europe and Asia very much need the same thing.....price is secondary to access and reserve development.

[fellowtraveller]

Iran is where the west started squabbling over oil in the region and that fight pretty much ballooned into a quagmire that now stretches halfway around the world even to New York and back to Afghanistan.

I think you mean Iraq. Iraq and Iran are two different countries. Check that globe again.

At present and for the last quarter century Iran has not been at war with anybody, and they sell their oil to nearly anybody at world prices.

Inclduing to Afganistan, since you must realize by now there is none in Afghanistan.

[eyeball]

I think you mean Iraq. Iraq and Iran are two different countries. Check that globe again.

No, I definitely meant Iran. Its where the US began its descent from grace in the region.

Now its just about in complete free-fall.

[fellowtraveller]

No, I definitely meant Iran. Its where the US began its descent from grace in the region.

Now its just about in complete free-fall.

??

The US has been most involved in the region in Saudi Arabia for decades, no other country is even close.

[fellowtraveller]

Now its just about in complete free-fall.

How so?

The US plan for energy security has been changed a bit, they are more increasingly more reliant on very stable suppliers like Canada. Part of that plan is lesser dependence on Mideast oil, and of course overall there is a global surplus of oil and gas now. Suppliers greatly exceed consumers.

So what do you mean by 'freefall'. Is that a technical term, or ideological?

[eyeball]

??

Link

It goes without saying that the neutrality and factual accuracy of anything anyone has to say about this issue is in dispute. Shit happens. Historians are probably no more trustworthy than climate scientists.

[eyeball]

So what do you mean by 'freefall'. Is that a technical term, or ideological?

Rhetorical.

[DogOnPorch]

No, I definitely meant Iran. Its where the US began its descent from grace in the region.

Now its just about in complete free-fall.

Iran was a staunch ally of America's for decades with Iran enjoying a higher standard of living than any other nation in the region because of it. Don't be so sure Iranians were chanting 'Death to America' from the day America assisted the Iranian coup-leaders in deposing the Communist-leaning Mosaddeq in 1953...they weren't. Life was very good for most sectors of society. The Shah and SAVAK were putting the screws to the very same a$$holes in charge now.

To not understand this event in a NATO vs Warsaw Pact light leads to revisionism. Lines were clearly drawn in those days.

But if you want irony, the guy that ended up in charge of the coup was the same fellow deposed in 1941 for having pro-Nazi sympathies.

[M.Dancer]

Link

It goes without saying that the neutrality and factual accuracy of anything anyone has to say about this issue is in dispute. Shit happens. Historians are probably no more trustworthy than climate scientists.

It is a fact that Mosaddeq's power grab was unconstitutional. That is not in Question. Nor is it in question that Mosaddeq's referedum which saw him win 99.9% of the vote was rigged.

Nor is it in question that the Shaw's overthrough of Mosaddeq had wide popular support.

[waldo]

It is a fact that Mosaddeq's power grab was unconstitutional. That is not in Question. Nor is it in question that Mosaddeq's referedum which saw him win 99.9% of the vote was rigged.

Nor is it in question that the Shah's overthrough of Mosaddeq had wide popular support.

or at least as popularly influenced by the CIA... yes... it's also not in question that the U.S. influenced coup d'etat replaced an elected secular democracy with a pro-U.S. dictatorship, widely held as the impetus towards the Iranian Revolution and the creation of the Islamic Republic of Iran. How's that one worked out... so far?

[M.Dancer]

U.S. influenced coup d'etat replaced an elected secular democracy with a pro-U.S. dictatorship,

Nope. Keep trying.

The Shah ousted a dictator who made an unconsitututional power grab.

Whose troops were used?

100% persian.

Did the shaw eliminate elections?

No.

[DogOnPorch]

It should also be noted...again...that the US did not put the Shah on the throne. Stalin and Churchill did.

[Oleg Bach]

It should also be noted...again...that the US did not put the Shah on the throne. Stalin and Churchill did.

Who cares ---remember the picture of Rosevelt, Stalin and Churchill smiling together - looks like they were all having a good time and in on some sick private joke...Afgahnistan is a travesty...and a shame - that place was not worth the life of one single Canadian soldier - I just wish that the people who push this blight forward had their own children parish instead of taking and sacraficing other peoples young ones...If the persons making these life and death decisions actually suffered personally - they would insist that we pull out of that place immediately..but they won't because they are not effected....and look at the representative Mckay - getting a military haircut..thinking this is a joke - let him and his parish in Afghanistan - that should wipe that immature elitist smile of his Roman nosed face..