bush_cheney2004 Posted April 17, 2009 Report Posted April 17, 2009 It means quite a bit if there were explosives in there, covered up by the 'official' investigation. You haven't even convinced yourself yet...why should others believe this fairy tale ? Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
Riverwind Posted April 17, 2009 Report Posted April 17, 2009 It means quite a bit if there were explosives in there, covered up by the 'official' investigation.There is no direct evidence of explosives. The evidence you quote is indirect evidence that might indicate the presence of explosives. It is inconclusive and means nothing without direct evidence of the plot that would have been required to plant the alledged explosives. Quote To fly a plane, you need both a left wing and a right wing.
tango Posted April 17, 2009 Author Report Posted April 17, 2009 (edited) There is no direct evidence of explosives. The evidence you quote is indirect evidence that might indicate the presence of explosives. It is inconclusive and means nothing without direct evidence of the plot that would have been required to plant the alledged explosives. Oh I think the presence of sophisticated explosives in several different samples means quite a lot. A lot of people have spent a lot of time 'debunking' the idea that any explosives were present. Well ... explosives were present, highly sophisticated ones not on the market and not easily available. Read the report. It's linked somewhere above. It certainly demands explanation. This is the conclusion of Professor Niels Harrit in the Danish TV2 interview when asked about “9-11 conspiracy theories”: “I think there is only one conspiracy theory worth mentioning, the one involving 19 hijackers. I think viewers should ask themselves what evidence they have seen to support the official conspiracy theory. If anyone has seen evidence, I would like to hear about it. No-one has been formally charged. No-one is ‘wanted’. Our work should lead to demands for a proper criminal investigation of the 9/11 terrorist attack. Because it never happened. We are still waiting for it. We hope our results will be used as technical evidence when that day comes. “ Edited April 17, 2009 by tango Quote My Canada includes rights of Indigenous Peoples. Love it or leave it, eh! Peace.
bush_cheney2004 Posted April 17, 2009 Report Posted April 17, 2009 Oh I think the presence of sophisticated explosives in several different samples means quite a lot.Read the report. It's linked somewhere above. It means nothing without physical context and authenticity, not to mention peer challenges. Would you convict a man based on this single report? Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
Riverwind Posted April 17, 2009 Report Posted April 17, 2009 Oh I think the presence of sophisticated explosives in several different samples means quite a lot.What was found was residues that could have come from explosives. There is no direct evidence of explosives. There is a huge difference. Quote To fly a plane, you need both a left wing and a right wing.
tango Posted April 17, 2009 Author Report Posted April 17, 2009 (edited) It means nothing without physical context and authenticity, not to mention peer challenges. Would you convict a man based on this single report? Nobody's convicting anybody. Just calling for proper investigation, which has never been done. Why is the mainstream north american media so silent, when this news is streaking around the world? -eta- Here's some testimony from people ... http://www.free-times.com/index.php?cat=19...001604091459631 His two-and-a-half-hour presentation at the Unitarian Universalist Fellowship was chock full of video interviews with first responders and cleanup workers who were on the scene describing explosions before the building collapses. Kevin McPadden, a former Air Force medic and a 9/11 first responder, had this to say in a video interview: "You heard explosions, like ba-boom!, a distinct sound, not like floors collapsing. ... You felt a rumble in the ground like you wanted to grab onto something. To me, I knew that that was an explosion." Gage says that 118 other first responders described similar sounds of explosions in 9/11 oral histories published in The New York Times. Edited April 17, 2009 by tango Quote My Canada includes rights of Indigenous Peoples. Love it or leave it, eh! Peace.
Riverwind Posted April 17, 2009 Report Posted April 17, 2009 Here's some testimony from people ...I said earlier that we need testimony from people who actually participated in the placing of the alleged bombs. That is direct evidence. Testimony from witnesses that think they might have heard something that might have been a bomb going off is more circumstantial evidence. Quote To fly a plane, you need both a left wing and a right wing.
tango Posted April 17, 2009 Author Report Posted April 17, 2009 (edited) I said earlier that we need testimony from people who actually participated in the placing of the alleged bombs. That is direct evidence. Testimony from witnesses that think they might have heard something that might have been a bomb going off is more circumstantial evidence. YOU may need such evidence, but some of us can see a picture emerging that definitely calls for a more unbiased investigation than was already done. That's the only point here, that a proper investigation needs to be done. There were not just residues, but unexploded debris as well, clearly identifiable as thermite, which you would know if you read the report. Often dismissed as a conspiracy theorist, Gage says, "First let the technical truths emerge, then if necessary, cope with the conspiracies and other questions." Edited April 17, 2009 by tango Quote My Canada includes rights of Indigenous Peoples. Love it or leave it, eh! Peace.
Riverwind Posted April 17, 2009 Report Posted April 17, 2009 (edited) That's the only point here, that a proper investigation needs to be done.Why? The majority of people don't seem to think so.There were not just residues, but unexploded debris as well, clearly identifiable as thermite, which you would know if you read the report.I have been over all of this stuff when Polynewbie was here. The entire argument is basically 'we found this stuff that could mean explosives. We can't think of anything else it could be so we will assert that it is explosives'. The fact they have no way to prove they did not fake all of evidence in first place makes the case even weaker. The entire case would be ripped to shreds in seconds by any half competent defense attorney.If this conspiracy did, in fact, occur there would be participants that would know enough details to make them credible. No such witnesses have emerged. That makes the claim highly improbable. Edited April 17, 2009 by Riverwind Quote To fly a plane, you need both a left wing and a right wing.
Michael Hardner Posted April 17, 2009 Report Posted April 17, 2009 tango, Well, after two towers have come down, what's another?http://www.wtc7.net/background.html At the time of its destruction, it exclusively housed government agencies and financial institutions. It contained offices of the IRS, Secret Service, and SEC. See, that's just not true. From the exact same site, there's a tenants list that shows financial organizations such as AmEx were tenants. wtc 7 Quote Click to learn why Climate Change is caused by HUMANS Michael Hardner
Michael Hardner Posted April 17, 2009 Report Posted April 17, 2009 tango, Nothing is proven, but the facts are becoming difficult to explain away.And see my post above re 'maybe it has happened before'. It just takes time to catch up with all the pro-conspiracy truther sites.... I remember when this stuff first came out, they made outlandish claims. By the time those were all explained away, they had gone off and made more claims. They quietly re-edit 'Loose Change' to remove the inaccuracies, version after version, but they never ever acknowledge that they were wrong. My experience with the sources of these theories (not the folks on these boards) is that they're extremely intellectually dishonest. Quote Click to learn why Climate Change is caused by HUMANS Michael Hardner
Wilber Posted April 17, 2009 Report Posted April 17, 2009 Gotta kick out of this quote from that link. How curious that on the day of the attack, Guiliani and his entourage set up shop in a different headquarters, abandoning the special bunker designed precisely for such an event. 3 Who builds a bunker on the 23rd floor of anything? Quote "Never trust a man who has not a single redeeming vice". WSC
tango Posted April 17, 2009 Author Report Posted April 17, 2009 (edited) tango,It just takes time to catch up with all the pro-conspiracy truther sites.... I remember when this stuff first came out, they made outlandish claims. By the time those were all explained away, they had gone off and made more claims. They quietly re-edit 'Loose Change' to remove the inaccuracies, version after version, but they never ever acknowledge that they were wrong. My experience with the sources of these theories (not the folks on these boards) is that they're extremely intellectually dishonest. This is a brand new report, authored by several academics with good credentials, in a respectable peer-reviewed journal. It is analysis of a variety of donated dust samples from the WTC collapse, pretty hard data and can be replicated by independent researchers. It is certainly worth demanding a more complete and unbiased investigation than has been done to date. Our soldiers are still dying in Afghanistan because of this. We owe them the truth. Edited April 17, 2009 by tango Quote My Canada includes rights of Indigenous Peoples. Love it or leave it, eh! Peace.
M.Dancer Posted April 17, 2009 Report Posted April 17, 2009 This is a brand new report, authored by several academics with good credentials, in a respectable peer-reviewed journal. I'm sure then it will be roundly dismissed. No controls over samples that were turned over to a known tr00ther by anonymous doners.... Quote RIGHT of SOME, LEFT of OTHERS If it is a choice between them and us, I choose us
tango Posted April 17, 2009 Author Report Posted April 17, 2009 (edited) I'm sure then it will be roundly dismissed. No controls over samples that were turned over to a known tr00ther by anonymous doners.... It's obvious you are not interested in learning the truth. Edited April 17, 2009 by tango Quote My Canada includes rights of Indigenous Peoples. Love it or leave it, eh! Peace.
GostHacked Posted April 17, 2009 Report Posted April 17, 2009 And if pigs had wings they could fly. In God We Trust...all others bring real data/evidence...not wild ass guesses please. Since you have to have faith to beleive and trust in this thing called God .... why should enything be proved to someone like you who beleives in a God with no proof of said god? No god, no trust .. more towers are going to fall. Micheal H. They quietly re-edit 'Loose Change' to remove the inaccuracies, version after version, but they never ever acknowledge that they were wrong. I will agree with you here. I have also stated in a couple other 9/11 threads that Loose Change is the worst piece put together to support the inside job theory. It is terrible, there are better documentaries out there that can show with better proof and show the logic behind the inside job angle. See, that's just not true. (responding to At the time of its destruction, it exclusively housed government agencies and financial institutions. It contained offices of the IRS, Secret Service, and SEC. ) From the exact same site, there's a tenants list that shows financial organizations such as AmEx were tenants. I thought AmEx WAS a financial institution. Or is a credit card company not considered a financial institution? My experience with the sources of these theories (not the folks on these boards) is that they're extremely intellectually dishonest. There are intellectually dishonest people that support the official story as well. Quote
Oleg Bach Posted April 17, 2009 Report Posted April 17, 2009 Buldings like NO. SEVEN - do not just fall to the ground when there is a small fire on one of the upper floors - High rise buildings burn - and NOT one in the world has ever tumbled in such a manner..no one! So what's with this thing? Sure the World Trade Centre was hit by planes...and sure their were fanatics aboard who for the most part might have just as well been manipulated mentally into doing this task - and sure the Saudi Princes financed the deal - and sure OUR oil men administration allowed these fags to kill 3000 people for sport - and sure....an industry based on terror emerged - and sure Bush and Cheney got caught off guard...AND SURE THEY WERE COWARDS AND NEVER FOLLOWED THE BUCK BACH TO SAUDI ARABIA - AND maybe the Saudis had some dirt on these old executives - like man boy sex - who knows what the hell really went down - I say black mail. Quote
M.Dancer Posted April 17, 2009 Report Posted April 17, 2009 It's obvious you are not interested in learning the truth. Yes that's it....just I don't want tr00th handed to me on a tin foil platter but the looney tunes crew.... But for those who readily digest every fruitcake conspiracy theory regardless of how nonsensical it is...bon apetite Quote RIGHT of SOME, LEFT of OTHERS If it is a choice between them and us, I choose us
tango Posted April 17, 2009 Author Report Posted April 17, 2009 Yes that's it....just I don't want tr00th handed to me on a tin foil platter but the looney tunes crew....But for those who readily digest every fruitcake conspiracy theory regardless of how nonsensical it is...bon apetite Have you read the full report? Quote My Canada includes rights of Indigenous Peoples. Love it or leave it, eh! Peace.
bush_cheney2004 Posted April 17, 2009 Report Posted April 17, 2009 Since you have to have faith to beleive and trust in this thing called God .... why should enything be proved to someone like you who beleives in a God with no proof of said god Sure...I believe in "God"....he lives about 93,000,000 miles from my house and fuses hydrogen and helium into heavier elements. No god, no trust .. more towers are going to fall. You have discovered gravity...again? Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
bush_cheney2004 Posted April 17, 2009 Report Posted April 17, 2009 Have you read the full report? ...a proof is a proof..... Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
M.Dancer Posted April 17, 2009 Report Posted April 17, 2009 Have you read the full report? I read enough to dismiss it. Quote RIGHT of SOME, LEFT of OTHERS If it is a choice between them and us, I choose us
DogOnPorch Posted April 17, 2009 Report Posted April 17, 2009 Sure...I believe in "God"....he lives about 93,000,000 miles from my house and fuses hydrogen and helium into heavier elements. Another George Carlin fan. Cheers. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MeSSwKffj9o Quote Nothing cracks a turtle like Leon Uris.
Michael Hardner Posted April 17, 2009 Report Posted April 17, 2009 This is a brand new report, authored by several academics with good credentials, in a respectable peer-reviewed journal.It is analysis of a variety of donated dust samples from the WTC collapse, pretty hard data and can be replicated by independent researchers. It is certainly worth demanding a more complete and unbiased investigation than has been done to date. Our soldiers are still dying in Afghanistan because of this. We owe them the truth. Hi tango, I respect that these are academics, and that this paper is better than most I've read on the topic. The donated dust samples are a problem, though. And, even if it turns out that there was such a chemical - what of it ? We can't go anywhere from there. Quote Click to learn why Climate Change is caused by HUMANS Michael Hardner
tango Posted April 17, 2009 Author Report Posted April 17, 2009 Hi tango,I respect that these are academics, and that this paper is better than most I've read on the topic. The donated dust samples are a problem, though. And, even if it turns out that there was such a chemical - what of it ? We can't go anywhere from there. Yes it is a good report, and these are credible professionals. A full, independent investigation would be a good place to go from there. Quote My Canada includes rights of Indigenous Peoples. Love it or leave it, eh! Peace.
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