Harper Working on Scrapping the Gun Registry!

[madmax]

And why would he campaign on the Gun Registry when the majority of Canadians don't want it scrapped. It might give him creds with the redneck crowd but he never mentions it during major political campaigns because he'd lose more votes than gain. Show me one campaign ad during the last election where he touted getting rid of the Gun Registry, or even since becoming a 'Conservative'.

I take great offence to the term "redneck" crowd.

[Smallc]

I take great offence to the term "redneck" crowd.

As do I. Not only rednecks dislike the registry.

[Argus]

I'm forced to conclude that you could not possibly be so illogical as to believe what you wrote.

You haven't read much of her stuff, have you.

[noahbody]

And why would he campaign on the Gun Registry when the majority of Canadians don't want it scrapped.

The majority does want the current long gun registry scrapped. The majority (67%) doesn't want all gun registries scrapped.

Overall, 54 per cent of Canadians suggested the current program created by the previous government was poorly organized, wasn't working properly and needed to be scrapped, and 56 per cent blamed the Liberals for the mismanagement.

http://www.lufa.ca/news/news_item.asp?NewsID=6073

[waldo]

Do you think we should register knives and baseball bats, too? It would be about as effective.

so... can we say you are in favour of an "effective" gun registry

or

on principal, you are against any/all manner of gun registries, regardless of their "effectiveness"?

[waldo]

I agree...you rattled off a lot of excuses for collossal failure and cost overruns....this just makes for a longer and funnier story in "magazines".

thanks for (finally) acknowledging the impact of non-IT related factors – those factors, those you term “excuses”, highlight shared degrees of accountability across all stakeholders. If by longer you accept “more complete”… yes. Funnier? Is failure funny to you?

credible IT professionals openly accept responsibility for participation in failed initiatives; unfortunately, particularly as evidenced by your narrow focus/limited understanding display, the ‘business community’ oft times is less accepting to shared/prime responsibility and “often” seeks to shift ownership/responsibility. This gun registry project is an example – one example – of many… there’s no shortage of examples out there, many of which never deployed after significant investments – they were abandoned. This gun registry project deployed - Time/Money/Resources… and a committed forceful sponsor, typically, brings forward measured results in spite of all manner of competing factors.

If you can't manage change...it will manage your project.

textbook – and flippant. Within this gun registry example, I offered several examples outside the confines of strict IT systems management…the politics, the governance, the lobby/special interests, etc. It’s one thing to accept/manage expected scope creep within a controlled arena… it’s another to expect to manage (successfully) external influences you have little, if any, control over or involvement with.

why, no, you only reinforced the project management incompetence. But it's never IT's fault (laughing).

well… I guess you haven’t grasped it after all – there is much more to a project than, singularly, IT systems management (that area you’ve solely concentrated on – that area you’ve solely been targeting). I’ve not stated IT is never at fault… but you have stated it’s only IT at fault in this registry example.

[noahbody]

there is much more to a project than, singularly, IT systems management

Agreed. You have to factor in paying people for little or no work.

[waldo]

Agreed. You have to factor in paying people for little or no work.

care to expand... is it your collective generalized summation or more pointedly applied to the gun registry project?

[bush_cheney2004]

thanks for (finally) acknowledging the impact of non-IT related factors – those factors, those you term “excuses”, highlight shared degrees of accountability across all stakeholders. If by longer you accept “more complete”… yes. Funnier? Is failure funny to you?

Yes....but I can think of even funnier ways to blow billions.

credible IT professionals openly accept responsibility for participation in failed initiatives; unfortunately, particularly as evidenced by your narrow focus/limited understanding display, the ‘business community’ oft times is less accepting to shared/prime responsibility and “often” seeks to shift ownership/responsibility.

Why are you squirming so much about a bungled project? I was wrong...it was not just a collossal IT project failure....nope...it was a collossal IT project failure and huge political failure.

textbook – and flippant. Within this gun registry example, I offered several examples outside the confines of strict IT systems management…the politics, the governance, the lobby/special interests, etc. It’s one thing to accept/manage expected scope creep within a controlled arena… it’s another to expect to manage (successfully) external influences you have little, if any, control over or involvement with.

Clue for you....I am often flippant....without your approval. Get over it. The fact remains that the Canadian Gun Registry project is often cited for lessons (not) learned.

well… I guess you haven’t grasped it after all – there is much more to a project than, singularly, IT systems management (that area you’ve solely concentrated on – that area you’ve solely been targeting). I’ve not stated IT is never at fault… but you have stated it’s only IT at fault in this registry example.

Well all I can say is that it was worth it....a very small bit of bait has landed me a very big fish and apologist for the Gun Registry project. May all your future projects be on time, on budget, and out of magazines!

[Oleg Bach]

Should get one of the kids to show me how to cut and paste..then I could be like you - and really eat them piece by piece - on my way out bro - good to see you...and look out for that assassin - the lector 616...toss him about for me if you see him..

[bush_cheney2004]

Should get one of the kids to show me how to cut and paste..then I could be like you - and really eat them piece by piece - on my way out bro - good to see you...and look out for that assassin - the lector 616...toss him about for me if you see him..

Props to you......busy filling sandbags down here.....Winnipeg has that neat river diversion project.....we're so jealous!

[Oleg Bach]

Props to you......busy filling sandbags down here.....Winnipeg has that neat river diversion project.....we're so jealous!

Be sending a drone to drop a sand bag on you. Your a mid continent guy? So how much water do you want? Go ahead make me an offer. Yes yes I am certifiable as far as accepting a certificate of re-numeration ...and I have this great bride for sale...I own it out right...down in New York.

[Oleg Bach]

Be sending a drone to drop a sand bag on you. Your a mid continent guy? So how much water do you want? Go ahead make me an offer. Yes yes I am certifiable as far as accepting a certificate of re-numeration ...and I have this great bride for sale...I own it out right...down in New York.

Meant BRIDGE for sale. Or the bride maybe - and "I'm pimping all over the world" - feel so blingish these days...did I tell you I was black? Well sort of on the inside...Ever see my rap video?

[Argus]

so... can we say you are in favour of an "effective" gun registry

or

on principal, you are against any/all manner of gun registries, regardless of their "effectiveness"?

I am in favour of almost anything which is effective.

But define effective. To me, it means that the system does not use more resources than a more useful system or program, that the information is accurate, and that it serves a useful purpose in terms of crime prevention or aprehending criminals. It has not been demonstrated to me that the long-gun registry passes any of those requirements.

[Molly]

You have to admit that the gun control movement is very much like the anti-smoking movement.

The proponents are not interested in -- don't believe it is possible for there to be-- sensible, sensibly-controlled use, and so eradication is the true goal.

Because of that, no tactic is petty enough, nor rationale unreasonable enough to be set aside. 'Reasonable accommodation' is just not on...

If 'reason' and 'reasonable accommodation' were part of it (and not just harrassment for harrassment's sake) then the long gun registry would have been tossed on the heap years ago.

[waldo]

Why are you squirming so much about a bungled project? I was wrong...it was not just a collossal IT project failure....nope...it was a collossal IT project failure and huge political failure.

I’ve spoken of measured results… and perceived failure(s)… and – failure(s). Ultimately, assorted reference points determine degrees of success – or failure – throughout the life of any major multi-year/phased project. Given the length of the project, the broadened scope, etc., do you measure failure against the original business case, assumptions, risks, etc.? Or do you more realistically look for measured results that suggest degrees of success/failure throughout the lengthy multi-year/phased project that ultimately leads to the resultant deployment of a working operational system? To many business/IT professionals, the only real failure is an abandoned or cancelled project - otherwise, if a sponsor is determined to expand the original boundaries and steps up with additional monies… and stakeholders sign-off… exactly where is the failure?.

you suggest a political failure? How so? Harper seems content to throw the occasional barb here and there… to let a private members bill float through (and die) once in a while. Until Harper steps up and introduces legislation (confidence motion please – thank you very much), or campaigns on the gun registry, where’s the real political advantage coming through – where’s the political failure you speak of?

Clue for you....I am often flippant....without your approval. Get over it. The fact remains that the Canadian Gun Registry project is often cited for lessons (not) learned.

along with the California DMV automation project (abandoned!)… or the Ford Motor Co. Purchasing project (abandoned!)… or the Apple Copland OS project (cancelled)… or the Denver Airport automated baggage handling project (failed – abandoned)… etc., etc., etc. Certainly, there’s no shortage of monumental “failed” projects out there. If it suits your purposes you can certainly continue to claim the gun registry project holds a more prolific status within the industry, or some industry recognized significance for “lessons learned”

Well all I can say is that it was worth it....a very small bit of bait has landed me a very big fish and apologist for the Gun Registry project. May all your future projects be on time, on budget, and out of magazines!

go figure – my net eventually filled with a most unintelligible bottom-feeder, one clearly out of it’s element… I do believe I’ll throw it back for further amusement.

[bush_cheney2004]

...To many business/IT professionals, the only real failure is an abandoned or cancelled project - otherwise, if a sponsor is determined to expand the original boundaries and steps up with additional monies… and stakeholders sign-off… exactly where is the failure?.

And therein lies the problem...IT wonks who not only refuse to recognize failure, but embrace the opportunity to get it right the nth time at any cost. Blue collar workers are often penalized for such "rework".....not so the brilliant architects and developers in the IT world....who "cleverly" start coding before the requirements are baselined.

you suggest a political failure? How so? Harper seems content to throw the occasional barb here and there… to let a private members bill float through (and die) once in a while. Until Harper steps up and introduces legislation (confidence motion please – thank you very much), or campaigns on the gun registry, where’s the real political advantage coming through – where’s the political failure you speak of?

This and many other threads are evidence enough of the political problem that blowing 3 billion CAD can bring.

along with the California DMV automation project (abandoned!)… or the Ford Motor Co. Purchasing project (abandoned!)… or the Apple Copland OS project (cancelled)… or the Denver Airport automated baggage handling project (failed – abandoned)… etc., etc., etc. Certainly, there’s no shortage of monumental “failed” projects out there. If it suits your purposes you can certainly continue to claim the gun registry project holds a more prolific status within the industry, or some industry recognized significance for “lessons learned”

I didn't write the articles...but I did read them. I am of the opinion that the solution was developed in such a half-assed way precisely because of political expediency. Many "IT projects" fail because people forget to obey the rules of cost....quality....and schedule.

go figure – my net eventually filled with a most unintelligible bottom-feeder, one clearly out of it’s element… I do believe I’ll throw it back for further amusement.

Except that you didn't even have a net in the water, let alone one with big IT holes in it.

[normanchateau]

I discounted the pro gun registry years ago due to this little thing called 'critical thinking' which none of you who support it seem to have much familiarity with.

"Critical thinking" can also be used to argue against the continuing criminalization of marijuana which provides billions in profits to armed thugs.

[waldo]

...To many business/IT professionals, the only real failure is an abandoned or cancelled project - otherwise, if a sponsor is determined to expand the original boundaries and steps up with additional monies… and stakeholders sign-off… exactly where is the failure?.

And therein lies the problem...IT wonks who not only refuse to recognize failure, but embrace the opportunity to get it right the nth time at any cost. Blue collar workers are often penalized for such "rework".....not so the brilliant architects and developers in the IT world....who "cleverly" start coding before the requirements are baselined.

you putz – now you’re showing your complete naivety… you really should move beyond those early 90’s magazines of yours (SDLC is just so passe). Baseline requirements? C’mon man – fire up your google and introduce yourself to agile program management & software development / XP programming / Scrums/Sprints… cause you’ll wanna be “baselining” those requirements every 2-3 weeks. Ha! You’re a hoot… no, make that, as you say, a hoot wonk! Just imagine - customer/business representatives signing-off each iteration – what a concept! Certainly defines your caustic “getting it right the nth time” doesn’t it?

you suggest a political failure? How so? Harper seems content to throw the occasional barb here and there… to let a private members bill float through (and die) once in a while. Until Harper steps up and introduces legislation (confidence motion please – thank you very much), or campaigns on the gun registry, where’s the real political advantage coming through – where’s the political failure you speak of?

This and many other threads are evidence enough of the political problem that blowing 3 billion CAD can bring.

make up your mind… you called it a political failure first – now you call it a political problem! As I said, Harper hasn’t the balls to take a real run at the gun registry… hmmm – wonder why. Hence – no political advantage/problem/failure! Then again, it’s a working operational system that many… many… people/groups consider a value add resource… so, again, where's that political failure of yours?

along with the California DMV automation project (abandoned!)… or the Ford Motor Co. Purchasing project (abandoned!)… or the Apple Copland OS project (cancelled)… or the Denver Airport automated baggage handling project (failed – abandoned)… etc., etc., etc. Certainly, there’s no shortage of monumental “failed” projects out there. If it suits your purposes you can certainly continue to claim the gun registry project holds a more prolific status within the industry, or some industry recognized significance for “lessons learned”.

I didn't write the articles...but I did read them. I am of the opinion that the solution was developed in such a half-assed way precisely because of political expediency. Many "IT projects" fail because people forget to obey the rules of cost....quality....and schedule.

who knows, for sure – unless you were a part of the project teams, have access to the phased post-mortems, can read from definitive accounts of the actual details from launch to completion, etc. Quality is always subject to time/money/resources… making the right versus expedient decisions is, obviously, influenced by the project sponsors motivation and willingness/want to continue to shift the boundaries that (can), ultimately, affect quality.

go figure – my net eventually filled with a most unintelligible bottom-feeder, one clearly out of it’s element… I do believe I’ll throw it back for further amusement.

Except that you didn't even have a net in the water, let alone one with big IT holes in it.

oh, after this reply sequence we see even more clearly see where (your) big holes are – but, keep reading those magazines… although you should try to look for more current editions.

[bush_cheney2004]

you putz – ....a hoot… no, make that, as you say, a hoot wonk! Just imagine - customer/business representatives signing-off each iteration – what a concept! Certainly defines your caustic “getting it right the nth time” doesn’t it?

Sorry, but your enlightenment is a day late and many dollars short....gone are the days of IT wankers like you pissing away budgets because you think the business revolves around Information Technology.

make up your mind… you called it a political failure first – now you call it a political problem! As I said, Harper hasn’t the balls to take a real run at the gun registry… hmmm – wonder why. Hence – no political advantage/problem/failure! Then again, it’s a working operational system that many… many… people/groups consider a value add resource… so, again, where's that political failure of yours?

Many don't feel that way...may the best pissing contest win. Either way, it was / is funny as hell.

who knows, for sure – unless you were a part of the project teams, have access to the phased post-mortems, can read from definitive accounts of the actual details from launch to completion, etc. Quality is always subject to time/money/resources… making the right versus expedient decisions is, obviously, influenced by the project sponsors motivation and willingness/want to continue to shift the boundaries that (can), ultimately, affect quality.

Now you're smarting up....it's the business that counts, not your IT arrogance.

oh, after this reply sequence we see even more clearly see where (your) big holes are – but, keep reading those magazines… although you should try to look for more current editions.

Nope...that one is one of my favorites.....how some idiots exploded an estimated $120 million project to $3 billion and still screwed it up. Blows milk right out of a DBA's nose...snort snort!

[benny]

If Harper Scraps the Gun Registry, he will alienate Eastern Canada; support for some form of control reached 71 percent in the eastern, more urban provinces of Ontario and Quebec.

[waldo]

you putz – now you’re showing your complete naivety… you really should move beyond those early 90’s magazines of yours (SDLC is just so passe). Baseline requirements? C’mon man – fire up your google and introduce yourself to agile program management & software development / XP programming / Scrums/Sprints… cause you’ll wanna be “baselining” those requirements every 2-3 weeks. Ha! You’re a hoot… no, make that, as you say, a hoot wonk! Just imagine - customer/business representatives signing-off each iteration – what a concept! Certainly defines your caustic “getting it right the nth time” doesn’t it?

Sorry, but your enlightenment is a day late and many dollars short....gone are the days of IT wankers like you pissing away budgets because you think the business revolves around Information Technology.

here’s a clue for you – the business does revolve around IT… clearly your comfort zone appears to be paper (magazines) but, really… c’mon, we’re decades beyond your paper systems comfort zone.

who knows, for sure – unless you were a part of the project teams, have access to the phased post-mortems, can read from definitive accounts of the actual details from launch to completion, etc. Quality is always subject to time/money/resources… making the right versus expedient decisions is, obviously, influenced by the project sponsors motivation and willingness/want to continue to shift the boundaries that (can), ultimately, affect quality.

Now you're smarting up....it's the business that counts, not your IT arrogance.

apparently you interpret challenge to your cavalier, unsubstantiated and false demeaning pronouncements as… IT arrogance. I don’t believe I’ve once talked directly about the failings of the business side. You shouldn’t feel inadequate when failing in your attempts to posture outside of your immediate comfort zone… remember, IT is your friend.

oh, after this reply sequence we see even more clearly see where (your) big holes are – but, keep reading those magazines… although you should try to look for more current editions.

Nope...that one is one of my favorites.....how some idiots exploded an estimated $120 million project to $3 billion and still screwed it up. Blows milk right out of a DBA's nose...snort snort!

of course… I expect you have a pipeline to quickly identify your “some idiots” in your catch-all labelling – equally clear, in this your latest blustering false bravado, is who you selectively think those “some idiots” are. Haven’t you learned anything yet… do you, on principal, discount any business responsibility or accountability?

crikey… if that’s your nose blowing milk bubbles... if you really are a dBA… care to elaborate on this, your mini cause-celebre to flush out the, as you state, “IT arrogance”?

[bush_cheney2004]

here’s a clue for you – the business does revolve around IT… clearly your comfort zone appears to be paper (magazines) but, really… c’mon, we’re decades beyond your paper systems comfort zone.

More arrogance...it will be the death of you!

apparently you interpret challenge to your cavalier, unsubstantiated and false demeaning pronouncements as… IT arrogance. I don’t believe I’ve once talked directly about the failings of the business side. You shouldn’t feel inadequate when failing in your attempts to posture outside of your immediate comfort zone… remember, IT is your friend.

No...IT is not my friend....IT is a state of mind that is best outsourced so that business can focus on core competencies.

of course… I expect you have a pipeline to quickly identify your “some idiots” in your catch-all labelling – equally clear, in this your latest blustering false bravado, is who you selectively think those “some idiots” are. Haven’t you learned anything yet… do you, on principal, discount any business responsibility or accountability?

Quite to the contrary...you still don't get it....the "business" is totally rsponsible for letting such matters get so far out of hand.

It's not my list or funniest version of the story (given the opening) but it will do on short notice. Note the "Baseline" banner ad...LOL!

http://www.allsafedefense.com/news/Interna...aBoondoggle.htm

Canada's Armed Robbery

Billion Dollar Boondoggle

Dwayne King, the lead developer of the Oracle database, says even with the project's expanded scope, the computerized registry was well within the technical capabilities of the development team. He and others such as Hession attributed ensuing problems to the circus-like atmosphere surrounding the gun registry.

crikey… if that’s your nose blowing milk bubbles... if you really are a dBA… care to elaborate on this, your mini cause-celebre to flush out the, as you state, “IT arrogance”?

I made no claim about being a DBA....see how easily you missed details?

Edited March 26, 2009 by bush_cheney2004

[waldo]

here’s a clue for you – the business does revolve around IT… clearly your comfort zone appears to be paper (magazines) but, really… c’mon, we’re decades beyond your paper systems comfort zone.

More arrogance...it will be the death of you!

no arrogance – just the facts, jack. Obviously, as the understatement of the day… business cannot function without the IT systems of today. No IT arrogance with that statement – just a most basic and accepted fact. So yes, the business does revolve around IT (systems).

apparently you interpret challenge to your cavalier, unsubstantiated and false demeaning pronouncements as… IT arrogance. I don’t believe I’ve once talked directly about the failings of the business side. You shouldn’t feel inadequate when failing in your attempts to posture outside of your immediate comfort zone… remember, IT is your friend.

No...IT is not my friend....IT is a state of mind that is best outsourced so that business can focus on core competencies.

ha! Most major corporations/companies have long since divested themselves of internal IT shops… even when IT existed within major corporations/companies, IT was traditionally viewed as a cost center – never a core competency of the business. Whether internal or outsourced, IT at “its core simplicity” is a medium to support the business.

of course… I expect you have a pipeline to quickly identify your “some idiots” in your catch-all labelling – equally clear, in this your latest blustering false bravado, is who you selectively think those “some idiots” are. Haven’t you learned anything yet… do you, on principal, discount any business responsibility or accountability?

Quite to the contrary...you still don't get it....the "business" is totally rsponsible for letting such matters get so far out of hand.

It's not my list or funniest version of the story (given the opening) but it will do on short notice. Note the "Baseline" banner ad...LOL!

http://www.allsafedefense.com/news/Interna...aBoondoggle.htm

old news and a rather weak article as it offers nothing to correlate back to your original premise – or what was your original premise until we managed to turn it around with your preceding comment that – finally - acknowledges a degree of business responsibility – finally! In any case, the article offers nothing to review the project in terms of decision factors and external influences (our earlier right vs. expedient decision point, for example… or the influence factors that necessitated the need for interfaces to some 50+ external systems, for example). Here’s a better version of the same article… with a purdy graph for ya: same article with a purdy graph for ya

crikey… if that’s your nose blowing milk bubbles... if you really are a dBA… care to elaborate on this, your mini cause-celebre to flush out the, as you state, “IT arrogance”?

I made no claim about being a DBA....see how easily you missed details?

gotcha – unless you'd care to elaborate further, your comment, “Blows milk right out of a DBA's nose...snort snort!” can remain forever clouded in a veil of milk snot.

[tango]

I just don't see what the big deal is about registering your guns, long or short.

You register your car don't you?

You register your new appliances (for the warranty) don't you?

What's the big deal?

Some bull crap about 'the right to bear arms' without the state knowing?

What about the cops' right to know when there's a domestic called in?

Edited March 26, 2009 by tango