Harper Working on Scrapping the Gun Registry!

[Wild Bill]

How does taking a course on gun safety reduce domestic homicide.

Does one really need a course to know that you keep weapons and amunition seperate, and in a place that is not accesible to children? You do not point a weapon at anyone, and you do not keep them loaded. You can not legislate common sense.

Alta4ever, if the citizenry had a higher level of common sense would you need to?

For that matter, if voters had more common sense we'd lose a lot of present day politicians. Nobody would vote for them!

[Alta4ever]

Alta4ever, if the citizenry had a higher level of common sense would you need to?

For that matter, if voters had more common sense we'd lose a lot of present day politicians. Nobody would vote for them!

As I said you can't legislate common sense. And expecting politicians to is stupid.

Edited March 23, 2009 by Alta4ever

[Oleg Bach]

First off-- I challenge that 67%. Easily half of it, however derived, is without doubt, an uninformed, knee-jerk "I know nothing of guns but I don't like them." response.

A LOT more nuance is in order- like ways of having the same, or better, more accurate information available at a small portion of the cost. Like separating this particular law from what it replaced, and actually looking at what was changed. The arguments in favor of it are generally arguments in favor of what went before (unbeknownst to the one doing the arguing), and don't even touch on the actual registry.

Secondly... the notion that gun deaths are more common where guns are present, is hardly news. --Vehicular deaths are more common where there are vehicles present; drug deaths are more common where drugs are present; avalanche deaths are more common where there are avalanches. -- Registration or not, in some places, they will be present.

I sympathize with the death of your aunt-- but consider: would it have been prevented by this legislation?

I, without knowing the exact circumstances, seriously doubt it. If you can show me how it might have, fair enough... but ... well... show me.

You can not legislate good and thoughtful behaviour. You can not legislate stupidity and evil out of existance. Those that kill with a gun will just as likely kill with a rock or club. Maybe we should start to think about how we can change the lives of people so they are more happy and there is real justice in the land? Leaving the population as is and legislating what they hold or do not hold in their hand will go on forever - You must re-train the mind - that controls the hand that holds the gun.

RECENTLY - I befriended this black fellow - It was a mistake - This person that is almost 7 feet tall approached me on the street and asked..."Why do you talk to me like you are better than me?" - I was very kind to this poor disturbed creature - who supposedly had served in Afghanistan - and who returned mentally ill and is now medicated...

He still holds on to values that are totally uncivilized and backward - He has a gangish view of the world and people - What took place is one morning as I was walking - he approached me - I am almost sixty years old and he challenged me to a duel..He said that I did not RESPECT him..I refused and he followed me - I literally had to dash out into the street to break contact with this lunitic.

Her is my point and what I learned about the mind set of some of the black population and some whites..when it comes to gun violence.

They do not understand what respect is. They assume that respect is when a person fears you...it's a very base and primative approach - You can not explain to them - that respect is mutual co-operation and a vacilating transfere of power where all benefit. This brought the old bit of scripture to mind..

"Do not throw your pearls (truth) before swine - they will hate you and turn on you like ravenous dogs and tear you apart" - to para-phrase.

Some people are just limited mentally and can not grasp the higher concepts that generate peace and civil behaviour.

To me evil and stupidity are the same damned thing. You can not legislate intelligence...but you can educate some to understand when it comes to violent people - how to avoid them and not be a wishful thinker and do - gooder...I made a mistake and over estimated this persons ability.

The government over estimates the ability of some segments of society. Legislate all you want and people will be who they are regardless - "The poor (stupid) will always be with us"

Liberals believe they can change the poor into civilized human beings. This is a mistake - understand who and what they are - and practice avoidance ...that's the best you can do - go around it.

Fire arms in the hands of evil (stupid) people who have never learned what respect truely is will continue to do harm..Whether it be the saturday night drunken farmer who kills his wife because she did not "respect" him --- (fear him) OR the gang banger that kills another because - the other guy did not respect him - fear him!

UNTIL THEY LEARN THAT RESPECT IS NOT FEAR . All will continue as is. RESPECT...Is love and kindness - but to some when you are kind and loving assume that you are better than they -----and you are!

[Progressive Tory]

PT, they spent all that money yet never added 1 DAY to any mandatory sentence for USING a gun illegally! How on earth can anybody with half a brain cell be expected to believe that their gun registry was a good idea that would make us more safe? Or that was their goal?

The gun registry was not a Liberal idea. It was a Canadian one. We protested lax gun laws. We wanted a registry. Law Enforcement wants a registry.

If our government can spend 11 billion dollars plus on a war I don't want, they can spend a billion dollars on a vital service that 67% of Canadians want. This 67% represents votes. (I'm sure it's just a co-incidence that Harper's approval rating is now just 33%)

Harper's comments on gun registry spark debate

Gun owners and gun control advocates are speaking out about the prime minister's idea to scrap the long-gun registry.... Long guns, which are typically used by farmers and hunters and not criminals, are not adding to the city's crime problem, said one women attending the Toronto Sportsmen's Show on Sunday....

... However, Harper's suggestion did not go over well with gun control advocates who argued that a registry helps authorities keep an eye on the weapons floating around the country.

"Even in Toronto, a substantial proportion of the guns recovered in crime are rifles and shotguns," said Wendy Cukier, with the Coalition for Gun Control. Even at the Sportsmen show, participants were split on whether the registry is worth maintaining. "I believe the registry is important to keep track of all the firearms in Canada and be used for law enforcement use," said Larry Brownridge, a gun owner who lives in the Greater Toronto Area.

... a Conservative backbencher has introduced a private member's bill on scrapping the registry. During Harper's speech on Saturday, the Prime Minister said he would like to see the matter put before a free vote in the House of Commons. Opposition Leader Michael Ignatieff said Sunday on CTV's Question Period that he wants to see the "fine print" of what the Tories are proposing before making a decision. Nonetheless, he was quick to say that he would not support a bill that proposes getting rid of the registry altogether, saying it does the police a great service. "We've got to keep control of these firearms," he said.

"I'm not going to vote for anything that guts the gun registry, because I think when I look at my own riding in Toronto and I talk to my police superintendent, he uses the gun registry every day," Ignatieff said. "He checks out every address he sends his cops to, to make sure that there are no guns in that house. In other words, the gun registry plays a crucial role in making our police safer." "And I think Canadians don't want to gut any registry that makes our cops safer and makes, I think, on balance, makes our streets safer," he added.

If Stephen Harper wants to once again pull a Nixon and take on 'his' people and our institutions over an issue that has police and citizen support - it's his political funeral.

[Progressive Tory]

For Molly.

For some reason once a new page is started any response from the previous page ends up lost in space.

Two in three Canadians want to keep gun registry, poll finds

[Progressive Tory]

For Wild Bill Again my first response from page one got lost in space.

The gun registry was not a Liberal idea. It was a Canadian one. We protested lax gun laws. We wanted a registry. Law Enforcement wants a registry.

If our government can spend 11 billion dollars plus on a war I don't want, they can spend a billion dollars on a vital service that 67% of Canadians want. This 67% represents votes. (I'm sure it's just a co-incidence that Harper's approval rating is now just 33%)

Harper's comments on gun registry spark debate

... However, Harper's suggestion did not go over well with gun control advocates who argued that a registry helps authorities keep an eye on the weapons floating around the country.

"Even in Toronto, a substantial proportion of the guns recovered in crime are rifles and shotguns," said Wendy Cukier, with the Coalition for Gun Control. Even at the Sportsmen show, participants were split on whether the registry is worth maintaining. "I believe the registry is important to keep track of all the firearms in Canada and be used for law enforcement use," said Larry Brownridge, a gun owner who lives in the Greater Toronto Area.

... a Conservative backbencher has introduced a private member's bill on scrapping the registry. During Harper's speech on Saturday, the Prime Minister said he would like to see the matter put before a free vote in the House of Commons. Opposition Leader Michael Ignatieff said Sunday on CTV's Question Period that he wants to see the "fine print" of what the Tories are proposing before making a decision. Nonetheless, he was quick to say that he would not support a bill that proposes getting rid of the registry altogether, saying it does the police a great service. "We've got to keep control of these firearms," he said.

"I'm not going to vote for anything that guts the gun registry, because I think when I look at my own riding in Toronto and I talk to my police superintendent, he uses the gun registry every day," Ignatieff said. "He checks out every address he sends his cops to, to make sure that there are no guns in that house. In other words, the gun registry plays a crucial role in making our police safer." "And I think Canadians don't want to gut any registry that makes our cops safer and makes, I think, on balance, makes our streets safer," he added.

If Stephen Harper wants to once again pull a Nixon and take on 'his' people and 'our' institutions over an issue that has police and citizen support - it's his political funeral.

[guyser]

The gun registry was not a Liberal idea. It was a Canadian one.

While it is true that Alan Rock is a Canadian, it is also true that Alan Rock was a Liberal and the Justince Minister at the time....and he championed the idea.

It was his office who came up with the machinations of such....and it was my Aunt who did a ton of work on this as his ass't....and if She was into it, means I am against it.

Some things you really shouldnt argue. This is one of them ,unless I missed something.

[madmax]

Damn right!

THere is a sucker born every minute. Harper isn't scrapping anything.

[Progressive Tory]

While it is true that Alan Rock is a Canadian, it is also true that Alan Rock was a Liberal and the Justince Minister at the time....and he championed the idea.

It was his office who came up with the machinations of such....and it was my Aunt who did a ton of work on this as his ass't....and if She was into it, means I am against it.

Some things you really shouldnt argue. This is one of them ,unless I missed something.

By not claiming it as a Liberal initiative, I didn't mean that the Liberals weren't in gov't at the time, but that it came about as a result of our desire to control guns. That's what I was trying to emphasize.

The École Polytechnique Massacre or Montreal Massacre was a wake up call.

Good for your aunt and Alan Rock. They had a huge task before them with so many passionate Canadians insisting on immediate action. I remember the political climate at that time. You should be very proud actually. I'm for keeping it. However, it's not the Liberal Gun Registry, it's the Canadian Gun Registry, and he's taking uson.

Every time the Conservatives don't agree with something, they automatically blame it on the Liberals. They should blame it on Canadians who pressured the (Liberal) government into doing something.

[Progressive Tory]

THere is a sucker born every minute. Harper isn't scrapping anything.

"However, a Conservative backbencher has introduced a private member's bill on scrapping the registry. During Harper's speech on Saturday, the Prime Minister said he would like to see the matter put before a free vote in the House of Commons."

Harper has already cut off funding and the bill, it is a 'comin'.

Harper's comments on gun registry spark debate

[Keepitsimple]

For Wild Bill Again my first response from page one got lost in space.

The gun registry was not a Liberal idea. It was a Canadian one. We protested lax gun laws. We wanted a registry. Law Enforcement wants a registry.

PT........Once again you call it a "gun" registry and as usual, that's a confusing, devious statement. It's a Long Gun Registry. If Canadians actually knew that handguns were already heavily restricted, licensed and registered and that many other guns were prohibited.....they wouldn't be so keen to pick on duckhunters and farmers. We Canadians want the justice system to enforce laws that are on the books and to get tough with repeat offenders. We don't want concurrent sentencing that negates gun sentences.

Edited March 23, 2009 by Keepitsimple

[Argus]

Do you think people can't be killed with rifles, sawed off or otherwise? Do you know how many people are killed or commit suicide with shotguns?

Would it make you feel better if they just took pills?

My aunt was killed by her husband with a rifle.

And if he hadn't had a rifle he'd have used a knife or a baseball bat. So?

[Oleg Bach]

Would it make you feel better if they just took pills?

And if he hadn't had a rifle he'd have used a knife or a baseball bat. So?

The dear aunt should have done what my mother did to my father - His first show of domestic dominance and violence was when he slapped my mother's face, back in 1962 --- She waited a week and came up to him with a big flower pot full of very dense clayish soild and broke it on top of his head....There was never a drop of bad behaviour from either party till natural death did them part. I am sure that this poor aunt who was killed by a rifle...had some tell tale signs of doom prior to the murder..She should have either took care of the bastard the old fashioned way or left.

[madmax]

Harper has already cut off funding and the bill, it is a 'comin'.

In 2004 and 2006 the LPC MP discussed cutting funding to the registery as a way to make the issue go away while discussing the registry in a public forum. So, I am not surprised that other parties are interested in cutting the funding to the registery.

If "Harper" was going to scrap the Gun Registry it wouldn't be a "private members bill". Harper has no intention of scrapping the gun registry as it is a problem that he can milk every election.

The Gun Registry is to the CPC what Child Care is to the LPC. An issue to campaign on year in, year out, and never do anything about it.

As long as the Gun Registry exists, the CPC can bash the LPC.

The CPC could put it through as a confidence measure, and challenge the LPC head on. They have no intention of doing this, and even went out of their way NOT to do with when the Dion Chicken nodder was heading the LPC. Ignatieff and has voted with the CPC on every bill, and will likely do so until the fall. They would do so, even if the registry was put on the table.

Why is that? Because in the last budget, the LPC caved in on defending womens rights. All decisions made by the LPC are about the future viability of the LPC, not the good of the country.

Knowing this, Harper wouldn't dare risk a government supported Bill on the Gun Registry for fear it would pass.

That said, the police unions that back the CPC want to keep the Registry.

The Registry is not the big issue today that it was in 2004. And Harper knows this, so he wants to milk every drop out of those who despise the registery and will vote CPC as long as they keep promising to scrap it.

[Argus]

The École Polytechnique Massacre or Montreal Massacre was a wake up call.

Good for your aunt and Alan Rock. They had a huge task before them with so many passionate Canadians insisting on immediate action.

Indeed. And what they got, instead, was the long gun registry, which cost a couple of billion dollars, and did nothing whatsoever to address the issue of crazy people shooting up schools.

Here, in fact, is the secret recorded transcript of the Liberals coming up with the gun registry! (yes, of course it's authentic!)

Allan Rock: "The people are demanding immediate action!"

Jean Chretien: "Who care what dey want."

Sheila Copps: "Hey, I don't have my golden pension yet, french boy."

Allan Rock: "Well, we don't actually have to do anything. We just have to be seen to be doing something."

Jean Chretien: "Dat my favorite kind of doing ting!"

Paul Martin: "So what should we pretend to do? It won't cost anything will it? I'm saving all the surplus until we need to buy votes."

Allan Rock: "My secretary suggested we register rifles."

Sheila Copps: "What, like cars? What's the point of that?"

Paul Martin: "Sounds like a dumb idea to me. Will it cost anything?"

Allan Rock: "How much could it cost? It's just a registry for rifles and shotguns."

Jean Chretien: "Is stupid idea! I being loving it! We make big huge call centre in Shawinigan and spend lots of money!"

Paul Martin: "Can we convince people this is really of any use?"

Allan Rock: "Have you met any of our voters lately? I could convince those bunch of rubes that water is dry."

Paul Martin: "Well, just so it doesn't cost much."

[Oleg Bach]

Shelia Copps should have been put on the violent crazy lady registry! Does anyone remember how she would leap across table tops to strangle anyone that preturbed her? This transcript is funny, and of course it is theatre ---but no so far off. Back to Ms Copps ---- speaking of male violence and anger management for aggressive males - How come no one took notice of Copps's violent uncontrolalbe temper - As with Chrietian..who liked to ring the necks of abnoxious reporters ----Both Copps and this former prime minster where not fit for office - let alone talk about how to curb violence in society> They were violent barbarians!

[Wild Bill]

For Wild Bill Again my first response from page one got lost in space.

The gun registry was not a Liberal idea. It was a Canadian one. We protested lax gun laws. We wanted a registry. Law Enforcement wants a registry.

If our government can spend 11 billion dollars plus on a war I don't want, they can spend a billion dollars on a vital service that 67% of Canadians want. This 67% represents votes. (I'm sure it's just a co-incidence that Harper's approval rating is now just 33%)

PT, who's arguing about whether or not Canadians want a registry? I'm arguing about what we GOT for a registry!

Do I have to shout? THEY'RE TWO COMPLETELY DIFFERENT THINGS!

It was smoke and mirrors! It cost a fortune and does diddley-squat!

So what if they are spending 11 billion on a war you don't like. That's a totally separate issue. Two wrongs don't make a right. Besides, I happen to approve of that war. What would be fair? Only you get your own way? Or should we split on 5.5 Billion?

We had a licensing system that was good enough and reasonable in cost. What we needed was more police and judges that would make more than "slap on the wrist" sentences for illegal use of a gun. We got NOTHING effective! Just a billion dollar Liberal photo-op!

I never felt safer, neither for myself or my wife and daughters. I just felt ripped off and bamboozled!

It is this sort of BS that means it will be a LONG time before I could vote Liberal! You may approve of them but all I've seen for years is carnival con men catering to the ignorant, like Jimmy Baker and Tammy Fae.

If something doesn't work then it's useless. It's false comfort to cling to it.

Edited March 23, 2009 by Wild Bill

[Alta4ever]

PT, who's arguing about whether or not Canadians want a registry? I'm arguing about what we GOT for a registry!

Do I have to shout? THEY'RE TWO COMPLETELY DIFFERENT THINGS!

It was smoke and mirrors! It cost a fortune and does diddley-squat!

So what if they are spending 11 billion on a war you don't like. That's a totally separate issue. Two wrongs don't make a right. Besides, I happen to approve of that war. What would be fair? Only you get your own way? Or should we split on 5.5 Billion?

We had a licensing system that was good enough and reasonable in cost. What we needed was more police and judges that would make more than "slap on the wrist" sentences for illegal use of a gun. We got NOTHING effective! Just a billion dollar Liberal photo-op!

I never felt safer, neither for myself or my wife and daughters. I just felt ripped off and bamboozled!

It is this sort of BS that means it will be a LONG time before I could vote Liberal! You may approve of them but all I've seen for years is carnival con men catering to the ignorant, like Jimmy Baker and Tammy Fae.

If something doesn't work then it's useless. It's false comfort to cling to it.

HERE HERE!

[85RZ500]

The École Polytechnique Massacre or Montreal Massacre was a wake up call.

A wake up call for what?, that a person can become a nutcase?

I take a whole lot of comfort in your babble, gosh, if the registry would've been in place, that massacre wouldn't have happened.

[eyeball]

If something doesn't work then it's useless. It's false comfort to cling to it.

I have no more use for Liberal's than you do, its just that I have no more use for the Conservatives for the very same reason you despise the Liberals.

I'd say scrap the current gun registry too but the reason I don't is that so many scrap-the-registry types are also staunch WOD hawks. There can be little doubt that the war on drugs is closely and deeply related to the proliferation and fear of guns. Advocates for guns and the WOD are their own worst enemies.

Why are you still clinging to the Conservatives Bill?

Edited March 23, 2009 by eyeball

[noahbody]

they can spend a billion dollars on a vital service that 67% of Canadians want.

The 67% figure is not related to the long gun registry.

"There's a majority, 67 per cent, that's not a small majority, who believe that Stephen Harper shouldn't be doing away with all gun registries."

[waldo]

Actually...the intent of your Gun Registry was to demonstrate collossal mismanagement of an IT project. It is still used to this day to teach project managers around the world, particularly when requirements are defined in a half-assed manner.

Fear not...the Liberals will safe you with yet another Oracle database instance. Hooray!!

bush_cheney2004, clearly your ‘management-by-magazine’ is profound. That you would single out IT, in isolation of all other sponsors, stakeholders and contributors is telling… far be it from you to articulate a more representative accounting of the gun registry project. It’s clear you have no practical working knowledge of project methodologies and the influences at play.

the deficient business case was not ITs responsibility – the politics & the suspect (competing) relationships between the Federal and (some) Provincial governments was not ITs responsibility – defining governance and accountability between Federal government departments was not ITs responsibility – deciding to shelve multi-years past work in favour of outsourcing was not ITs responsibility – that the business stakeholders failed to accept/align with standard gated funding & milestone practices was not ITs responsibility – that the project was dramatically influenced by lobbying and special interest groups was not ITs responsibility, etc., etc., etc.

the overwhelming IT “failure” in the registry project was to not hold the scope and not freeze specifications, particularly in consideration of, ultimately, thousands of change requests. Being able to even attempt to manage scope creep in the face of a highly motivated client is a discussion on its own. Your curt dismissive assessment summarized to “half-assed requirements definition” shows your dismal lack of credibility.

but thanks for the chuckle… I actually know a business flunkie who regularly offers bizarro-world technical solutions (like your Oracle dB instance reference) as the end-all/be-all project life-lines – I expect he reads the same management magazines you do.

[waldo]

merde!

the infringement... the inconvenience... the effort... involved in registering a car!!!

ya ya - all you anti-gun registry types seem to have no qualms in your acceptance of car registrations... apparently, it would seem... yet, seem to come all unglued at the so-called "intrusion" you suffer in registering your guns. So sad.

[Molly]

Cars that don't go on public roads don't require registration.

[guyser]

Cars that don't go on public roads don't require registration.

yes they do.