dub Posted February 19, 2009 Report Share Posted February 19, 2009 See...there you go again. Selective history. Remove the bits that do not fit with your POV. how does the questionable actions by the grand mufti have ANYTHING to do with the illegal israeli settlements that continues to expand? why don't you surprise this board and for once, stop trying to justify everything israel does. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogOnPorch Posted February 19, 2009 Report Share Posted February 19, 2009 how does the questionable actions by the grand mufti have ANYTHING to do with the illegal israeli settlements that continues to expand?why don't you surprise this board and for once, stop trying to justify everything israel does. Had the Grand Mufti not sceamed for Jihad like the Jew-baiting Nazi maniac he was, the Palestinan Arabs would no doubt have their own state. Settlements would not be an issue. I support history. If you'd like to correct me on any part of it, by all means...but provide a good source. --------------------------------------------- Is it live or Memorex? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rue Posted February 20, 2009 Report Share Posted February 20, 2009 (edited) c'mon rue. i like you but you're being very unreasonable with this argument. if i walked into your home and declared it my home, is it right or wrong? who does the home belong to? where are you going to go? Lol. You like me? You are insane. Have you told anyone about this? a peep. I approach the conflict as I would any land conflict or any tribal or any other kind of conflict-with a view to trying to be neutral in terms of moral judgement or legal assumptions and trying to recognize two equals, both with valid and strong and often emotional arguements-you want me to be reasonable-to do that I have to dettach from emotion. My personal distrust of terrorists, extremists on both sides has to be set aside. The bottom line is I have faith. I have faith Palestinian farmers will be able to live and farm in a peaceful world. I have faith Jews will be able to live in Israel without fear of violence and terror from anyone. I have faith the extremists on either side will give way to rational discourse which will require some tough negotiations where both sides are not going to get what they want but may get what presents them both with the best chance of living peacefully side by side. I have faith in rational peace loving Palestinians to negotiate with rational peace loving Israelis and to find their way with the help of rational neutral mediators. Now that is naive but it is no more wacky then you saying you like me. We are both nutzo. Edited February 20, 2009 by Rue Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
myata Posted February 20, 2009 Report Share Posted February 20, 2009 As for the Jewish settlers, they claim no differently then the Palestinians they have an inalienable right to the same land based on the exact same reasons. Really, Rue? Somebody who's lived their entire happy lives somewhere on the other side of the globe suddenly finds out that they have that "inalienable right" to your backyard, Rue, where your family lived for generations? Do I too happen to enjoy the same "right", Rue? Why not, Rue? Aren't we all human, as you said previously? Or, maybe, because we are all humans, we should all have that "right" for your wallet, too? You see, Rue. Me saying "right" means nothing. Nada. Word. It's what I do about it, what matters. And what was and is being done, is out there. Right before our eyes. If I go and grab, its nothing to do with my "right", even when I say it a lot, but more likely with the fact that 1) I want it; 2) I can grab it; and 3) I don't really bother with what the result of my act would mean to the other. Packs of baboons, Rue? I'd second that. Even if some of them would consder themselves to be more civilized, democratic, sophisticated, etc - if baboons is what they are, i.e. walk and quack like. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dub Posted February 20, 2009 Report Share Posted February 20, 2009 Had the Grand Mufti not sceamed for Jihad like the Jew-baiting Nazi maniac he was, the Palestinan Arabs would no doubt have their own state. Settlements would not be an issue.I support history. If you'd like to correct me on any part of it, by all means...but provide a good source. the grand mufti's position still does not explain or justify the illegal settlements. they're illegal and they should be, first, stopped from expanding and second, slowly dismantled and removed from the west bank. i wish you supported international law. the very law that created the state of israel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M.Dancer Posted February 20, 2009 Report Share Posted February 20, 2009 i wish you supported international law. the very law that created the state of israel. You are mistaken if you think international law created the state of Israel. Care to cite the law? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eyeball Posted February 20, 2009 Report Share Posted February 20, 2009 You are mistaken if you think international law created the state of Israel.Care to cite the law? So you're saying Israel was illegally created or created in the absence of any law? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oleg Bach Posted February 20, 2009 Report Share Posted February 20, 2009 So you're saying Israel was illegally created or created in the absence of any law? Of course - if possession is nine tenths of the law - and other semites were already established in the area - and you came and pushed them aside and moved into their house - that sounds pretty lawless to me..There is natural law that animals abide by. One creature over powers and kill the other and takes it's territory - For the Jews to refere to others as goyem - or cattle (animals) and behave as such themselves is the height of hypocracy...There is natural law that is brutal - and their is civil law that is compassionate and fair...If the UN santioned theft of land and property though force - then the UN has debased the planet with their very existance and should be disbanded...what good has the former League Of Nations done in the last sixty years? If a genocide is taking place they have a study untill it's to late to act - some times I wonder if it is done with intent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogOnPorch Posted February 20, 2009 Report Share Posted February 20, 2009 (edited) the grand mufti's position still does not explain or justify the illegal settlements. they're illegal and they should be, first, stopped from expanding and second, slowly dismantled and removed from the west bank.i wish you supported international law. the very law that created the state of israel. Again. Hadn't the Grand Mufti started a war, there would have already been a 'two state solution' where Arab Palestine would no doubt be a hot tourist destination for its history and nice climate. ----------------------------------------------- Just a spoonfull of sugar makes the medicine go down in the most delightful way. ---Mary Poppins Edited February 20, 2009 by DogOnPorch Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dub Posted February 20, 2009 Report Share Posted February 20, 2009 (edited) - double post - Edited February 20, 2009 by dub Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dub Posted February 20, 2009 Report Share Posted February 20, 2009 (edited) Again. Hadn't the Grand Mufti started a war, there would have already been a 'two state solution' where Arab Palestine would no doubt be a hot tourist destination for its history and nice climate.----------------------------------------------- Just a spoonfull of sugar makes the medicine go down in the most delightful way. ---Mary Poppins it's not right to blame all of this on the grand mufti. first of all, who knows how things would have turned out if the grand mufti had accepted a few countries (league of nations) deciding that part of their land belongs to someone else. second, avoiding all the other variables involved in the past, like the jewish terrorist groups and blaming all this on the grand mufti, is not correct. third, the biggest problem with your argument is, whatever the grand mufti did in the past, does not justify israel's illegal settlements which continue to grow and an occupation that has left a group of people without human rights. Edited February 20, 2009 by dub Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogOnPorch Posted February 20, 2009 Report Share Posted February 20, 2009 it's not right to blame all of this on the grand mufti. first of all, who knows how things would have turned out if the grand mufti had accepted a few country deciding that part of their land belongs to someone else.second, whatever the grand mufti did in the past, does not justify israel's illegal settlements which continue to grow and an occupation that has left a group of people without human rights. You're right re: the Grand Mufti. He was just the loudest voice amoungst a few Arab hotheads that wanted a Judenfrei Middle-East. Re: the Grand Mufti's past: my point stands. Had the Grand Mufti not opted for war rather than peace there wouldn't be this trouble today. The Arabs basically went for double-or-nothing and rolled snake-eyes. Blame them for not winning and driving the Jews into the sea as planned. This conversation wouldn't have occured and perhaps you'd be happy...dunno. ---------------------------------------------------------------- Poor is the man whose pleasures depend on the permission of another. ---Madonna Louise Ciccone Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oleg Bach Posted February 20, 2009 Report Share Posted February 20, 2009 Again. Hadn't the Grand Mufti started a war, there would have already been a 'two state solution' where Arab Palestine would no doubt be a hot tourist destination for its history and nice climate.----------------------------------------------- Just a spoonfull of sugar makes the medicine go down in the most delightful way. ---Mary Poppins To bad the the most historic and beautiful area on earth is blighted and made almost a useless entity. The great crime is that in it's present state that what should be a tourist destination boardering on a heavenly experiece has decended into a earthly hell...what a waste. It's an injustice and a denial to millions on the planet of a legacy that belongs to all...not just Jew or Arab or American for that matter.. Could you imagine how prosperious the place would be if Jews, Christians, Muslims and curious atheists - could go to the holy land on mass and enjoy the place - everybody would be rich and happy. Instead the trouble in Israel make a very few people rich and happy at the expense of the world. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dub Posted February 20, 2009 Report Share Posted February 20, 2009 You're right re: the Grand Mufti. He was just the loudest voice amoungst a few Arab hotheads that wanted a Judenfrei Middle-East.Re: the Grand Mufti's past: my point stands. Had the Grand Mufti not opted for war rather than peace there wouldn't be this trouble today. The Arabs basically went for double-or-nothing and rolled snake-eyes. Blame them for not winning and driving the Jews into the sea as planned. This conversation wouldn't have occured and perhaps you'd be happy...dunno. we're going in circles. do you think grand mufti's response half a century ago is green light for israel to violate international law? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogOnPorch Posted February 20, 2009 Report Share Posted February 20, 2009 we're going in circles.do you think grand mufti's response half a century ago is green light for israel to violate international law? It does appear to be a green light for Hamas (et al) to 'violate international law'. ------------------------------------------- Hamas must lay the foundation for a tomorrow without Zionists. ---Hamas leader Mahmoud a-Zahar, Al-Aqsa TV, January 4, 2009 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oleg Bach Posted February 20, 2009 Report Share Posted February 20, 2009 It does appear to be a green light for Hamas (et al) to 'violate international law'.------------------------------------------- Hamas must lay the foundation for a tomorrow without Zionists. ---Hamas leader Mahmoud a-Zahar, Al-Aqsa TV, January 4, 2009 Israel and America created the atmosphere for Hamas to spawn in. If the policy was humane - Hamas would not exist - much like Iraq and Afghaistan. If America dropped a hundred thousand dollars to each family there would be no war - and it would have been cheaper - it's all about money..ideolgy is a sport for acedemics and politicals. Put food on the table and the war stops. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogOnPorch Posted February 20, 2009 Report Share Posted February 20, 2009 Israel and America created the atmosphere for Hamas to spawn in. If the policy was humane - Hamas would not exist - much like Iraq and Afghaistan. If America dropped a hundred thousand dollars to each family there would be no war - and it would have been cheaper - it's all about money..ideolgy is a sport for acedemics and politicals. Put food on the table and the war stops. Screw that. The Muslim Brotherhood is the root of Hamas...that and the Protocols of the Elders of Zion. Today it is Palestine, tomorrow it will be one country or another. The Zionist plan is limitless. After Palestine, the Zionists aspire to expand from the Nile to the Euphrates. When they will have digested the region they overtook, they will aspire to further expansion, and so on. Their plan is embodied in the "Protocols of the Elders of Zion", and their present conduct is the best proof of what we are saying.---Article 32 of the Covenant -------------------------------------- It's a Daisy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oleg Bach Posted February 20, 2009 Report Share Posted February 20, 2009 Screw that. The Muslim Brotherhood is the root of Hamas...that and the Protocols of the Elders of Zion.-------------------------------------- It's a Daisy. Brotherhoods are not as tight as you assume - If my brother who is rich does not assist me in my need - then the brotherhood does not exist. As for the opposing Russian myth..of the Protocols of Zion - sure it could have existed but it may be people like you who keep the dead thing alive. Do you really believe that people are so stubborn that the basic needs of life will not upsurp the need of ideology and human pride...It's all about pride and dominance..This is much like an older man who finds his wife to be unfaithful - he can make a decision--either except and forgive and get on with life and love her - or be proud and die alone...There is a choice here. Be proud and die - or submit to the fact that human beings are stupid and in the end we need each other. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogOnPorch Posted February 20, 2009 Report Share Posted February 20, 2009 Brotherhoods are not as tight as you assume - If my brother who is rich does not assist me in my need - then the brotherhood does not exist. As for the opposing Russian myth..of the Protocols of Zion - sure it could have existed but it may be people like you who keep the dead thing alive. Oleg, they wrote the "Protocols" right into their Charter. I didn't put it there. (see previous post) ------------------------------------------------ One ton of mayo...he has one ton of mayo. One ton of may-ooooo...he has one ton of mayo.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dub Posted February 20, 2009 Report Share Posted February 20, 2009 It does appear to be a green light for Hamas (et al) to 'violate international law'. you didn't answer the question. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogOnPorch Posted February 21, 2009 Report Share Posted February 21, 2009 you didn't answer the question. lol...yes I did. I can be as vague as you, too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dub Posted February 23, 2009 Report Share Posted February 23, 2009 lol...yes I did. I can be as vague as you, too. perhaps you could point out to where i've been vague so i can make things more clear for you. by not answering the question, it proves that you have an agenda that goes beyond sharing facts and talking about history. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oleg Bach Posted February 24, 2009 Report Share Posted February 24, 2009 It does appear to be a green light for Hamas (et al) to 'violate international law'.------------------------------------------- Hamas must lay the foundation for a tomorrow without Zionists. ---Hamas leader Mahmoud a-Zahar, Al-Aqsa TV, January 4, 2009 We and the whole world abide by international law as much as we abide by our own Charter Of Rights - even if we did abide fully with U N ist laws - they have so many bad ones we would suffer moral confusion - and if I hear that word Zionist one more time I will vomit...It's like people who believe in the Satan figure...mankind keeps the devil alive - there is no Satan and there are no Zionists unless you need them to be...and if you have such needs - you are nuts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogOnPorch Posted February 24, 2009 Report Share Posted February 24, 2009 perhaps you could point out to where i've been vague so i can make things more clear for you. You're all about questions...not answers. Tiresome. by not answering the question, it proves that you have an agenda that goes beyond sharing facts and talking about history. It does no such thing. I don't support neo-Nazi religious orginizations such as Hamas. I've been pretty clear about, that I think. Oleg: We and the whole world abide by international law as much as we abide by our own Charter Of Rights - even if we did abide fully with U N ist laws - they have so many bad ones we would suffer moral confusion - and if I hear that word Zionist one more time I will vomit...It's like people who believe in the Satan figure...mankind keeps the devil alive - there is no Satan and there are no Zionists unless you need them to be...and if you have such needs - you are nuts. I grew up in a Canada where the use of the word "Zionist" was unheard of. That came later with immigration, I suppose. ---------------------------------------- The vivid proof of the imperialistic designs of the British is to be found in Moslem Palestine which, although promised by England to Sheriff Hussein has had to submit to the outrageous infiltration of Jews, shameful politics designed to divide Arab-Moslem countries of Asia from those of Africa. ---Grand Mufti Haj Amin al-Husseini: Fatwa--Holy War against Britain, 1941 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GostHacked Posted February 24, 2009 Report Share Posted February 24, 2009 It does no such thing. I don't support neo-Nazi religious orginizations such as Hamas. I've been pretty clear about, that I think. Neo-Nazi .. lol ... and people call other people idiots for using Nazi to describe other things. It has been stated here that the use of the word Nazi kind of discredits every point you are trying to make. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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