DogOnPorch Posted January 30, 2009 Report Share Posted January 30, 2009 (edited) I can't think of a single reason why my hands wouldn't be wringing unless Arabs were holding these lands after having just repelled an invasion by Israel. If this occupation however persisted beyond a reasonable time and degenerated into anything like what has actually happened, then you could count on my hands wringing quite loudly. Hypothetical Israeli invasions aside...you and I would be feeling very lonely at the demonstration. I'll hold the sign. You can grab the coffee. ----------------------------------- Behold the Lord High Executioner A personage of noble rank and title — A dignified and potent officer, Whose functions are particularly vital! Defer, defer, To the Lord High Executioner! ---Gilbert & Sullivan Edited January 30, 2009 by DogOnPorch Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eyeball Posted January 30, 2009 Report Share Posted January 30, 2009 I don't believe in "international law". It isn't placed across the boards to all parties equallly. The only time I hear anyone ranting about international law it is in regards to Israel. Like now. Hmmm, my ears are still ringing from all the ranting I heard about "international law" when it came to invading Afghanistan and Iraq or justifying plans to do the same to Iran. What was that about ranting and equality again? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eyeball Posted January 30, 2009 Report Share Posted January 30, 2009 Hypothetical Israeli invasions aside...you and I would be feeling very lonely at the demonstration. I'll hold the sign. You can grab the coffee.----------------------------------- Behold the Lord High Executioner A personage of noble rank and title — A dignified and potent officer, Whose functions are particularly vital! Defer, defer, To the Lord High Executioner! ---Gilbert & Sullivan We'll have to get a sign that changes like your signature. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogOnPorch Posted January 30, 2009 Report Share Posted January 30, 2009 Hmmm, my ears are still ringing from all the ranting I heard about "international law" when it came to invading Afghanistan and Iraq or justifying plans to do the same to Iran.What was that about ranting and equality again? Pardon. I should have mentioned the Great Satan as well as the Little Satan. My bad... ------------------------------------------- Taken from the county jail By a set of curious chances; Liberated then on bail, On my own recognizances... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogOnPorch Posted January 30, 2009 Report Share Posted January 30, 2009 (edited) We'll have to get a sign that changes like your signature. (hint: my 'signature' often relates to the post...even if it is by 6 degrees of Kevin Bacon.) ------------- Ho-Ho-Ho-Green Giant. Edited January 30, 2009 by DogOnPorch Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dub Posted January 30, 2009 Report Share Posted January 30, 2009 (edited) I don't believe in "international law". It isn't placed across the boards to all parties equally. what do you mean it's not? if an arab country occupies, lets say... greece and starts creating settlements and begins to annex land saying it's arab land, then i'm sure international law will prevail and something would be done. The only time I hear anyone ranting about international law it is in regards to Israel. Like now. while israel continues to break international law, you will continue to hear about it. Edited January 30, 2009 by dub Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogOnPorch Posted January 30, 2009 Report Share Posted January 30, 2009 (edited) QUOTE (DogOnPorch @ Jan 30 2009, 12:57 PM) Blah, blah, blah...and how does various Arab-Israeli Wars affect all this? If the Arabs actually won a war and were holding Israeli lands, would all this hand wringing and fretting be occuring? Doubt it. --------------------------------- who cares if the arabs lost and the israelis the war. international law says that the settlements are illegal. See? ----------------- No matter how big a guy might be, Nicky would take him on. You beat Nicky with fists, he comes back with a bat. You beat him with a knife, he comes back with a gun. And if you beat him with a gun, you better kill him, because he'll keep comin' back and back until one of you is dead. ---Sam 'Ace' Rothstein: Casino Edited January 30, 2009 by DogOnPorch Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dub Posted January 30, 2009 Report Share Posted January 30, 2009 (edited) See? *i edited my post to reply to a previous post by you* regardless... see what? when iran and iraq had a war, iraq lost some land to the iranians. iran didn't start building settlements on the land with crazy religious zealots who see all of iraq as one greater iran. they left the territory, respecting international borders. so you don't care about international law, eh? so you would be okay if jordon started building nuclear weapons, which is against the NPT, right? or do you prefer that they follow international law? i'm confused here. Edited January 30, 2009 by dub Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogOnPorch Posted January 30, 2009 Report Share Posted January 30, 2009 what do you mean it's not? if an arab country occupies, lets say... greece and starts creating settlements and begins to annex land saying it's arab land, then i'm sure international law will prevail and something would be done. Did "Greece" attempt to destroy this hypothetical Arab country recently? ------------------------------------ This here's Miss Bonnie Parker. I'm Clyde Barrow. We rob banks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogOnPorch Posted January 31, 2009 Report Share Posted January 31, 2009 (edited) *i edited my post to reply to a previous post by you* I see. No worries. regardless... see what? You attempted to make the Arab Israeli Wars a non-issue...as predicted. when iran and iraq had a war, iraq lost some land to the iranians. iran didn't start building settlements on the land with crazy religious zealots who see all of iraq as one greater iran. they left the territory, respecting international borders. A totally different war. The Iran-Iraq War was fought much like a WW1 trench battle due to very poor Iranian and Iraqi generals with zero clue about command-control. The borders never changed in spite of the massive amounts of dead and wounded. they left the territory, respecting international borders I could point out that the French have 'colonized' the German bits of the Alsace/Lorraine quite thoroughly. so you don't care about international law, eh? Not so much "don't care" as "don't believe it exists". As is often pointed out to me...Israel and America flaunt "international law" all the time. That says something to me about realities on the ground trumping all these "3rd party" (read: UN) suggestions/laws/what-nots. so you would be okay if jordon started building nuclear weapons, which is against the NPT, right? or do you prefer that they follow international law? i'm confused here. In this day and age, if Jordan really wants the Bomb, Jordan shall have the Bomb...just as Iran shall have the Bomb. We'll fret...we'll wring our hands...but, I doubt we'll be lining up at the recruitment booths. ------------------------------------------------------------- How can anyone govern a nation that has two hundred and forty-six different kinds of cheese? ---President/General Charles De Gaulle Edited January 31, 2009 by DogOnPorch Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JB Globe Posted February 1, 2009 Report Share Posted February 1, 2009 Settlements make a Palestinian state impossible, and thereby makes long-term peace and security with Palestinians impossible. You can't really call yourself a supporter of Israel if you are promoting something which guarantees conflict in the future. The settlers who are out there building illegal settlements and provoking conflict with Palestinians are just as religiously fanatical as their counterparts on the Palestinian side, and I fail to understand why anyone would ally themselves with these people and support their actions. No less an American news icon than 60 minutes recently did an excellent piece looking at how settlement building in the West Bank blocks the peace process, and what life is like for Palestinians living there: PT 1 - http://ca.youtube.com/watch?v=S_UwGgLdmdI PT 2 - http://ca.youtube.com/watch?v=O8KwUSQL9zc&...feature=related The checkpoints, needing a permit (which you are constantly denied for) to visit the town where you were born and worked for most of your life. The hardest thing for anyone however would be the case in which the Israeli army would take over a family's house in the middle of the night and stay there for a day, leave, come back a few days later - do the same thing, put the family under house arrest, then the next time only the men, then the next time only the women . . . And this goes on for months at a time, with no explanation or compensation. I only wish more reports like this made it into American (and Canadian news), there is (thankfully) no shortage of reports on how terrible a suicide blast is to remind us of the reality of the situation. However we almost never hear mainstream news reporting on what life is like under the occupation, and how fanatical many West Bank settlers are. And that is why I think we have so many people who have this sort of blind-faith in Israel, and unconditionally support most of it's policies. They are simply not properly informed as to what happens in the West Bank. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted February 1, 2009 Report Share Posted February 1, 2009 (edited) ....I only wish more reports like this made it into American (and Canadian news), there is (thankfully) no shortage of reports on how terrible a suicide blast is to remind us of the reality of the situation. However we almost never hear mainstream news reporting on what life is like under the occupation, and how fanatical many West Bank settlers are. And that is why I think we have so many people who have this sort of blind-faith in Israel, and unconditionally support most of it's policies. You have just contradicted yourself.....60 Minutes has done such pieces for years. As has PBS, CNN, BBC, and many others. They are simply not properly informed as to what happens in the West Bank. You are making the assumption that it would make any difference. "Properly informed" is your biased view. Edited February 1, 2009 by bush_cheney2004 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogOnPorch Posted February 1, 2009 Report Share Posted February 1, 2009 Settlements make a Palestinian state impossible, and thereby makes long-term peace and security with Palestinians impossible.You can't really call yourself a supporter of Israel if you are promoting something which guarantees conflict in the future. The settlers who are out there building illegal settlements and provoking conflict with Palestinians are just as religiously fanatical as their counterparts on the Palestinian side, and I fail to understand why anyone would ally themselves with these people and support their actions. No less an American news icon than 60 minutes recently did an excellent piece looking at how settlement building in the West Bank blocks the peace process, and what life is like for Palestinians living there: PT 1 - http://ca.youtube.com/watch?v=S_UwGgLdmdI PT 2 - http://ca.youtube.com/watch?v=O8KwUSQL9zc&...feature=related The checkpoints, needing a permit (which you are constantly denied for) to visit the town where you were born and worked for most of your life. The hardest thing for anyone however would be the case in which the Israeli army would take over a family's house in the middle of the night and stay there for a day, leave, come back a few days later - do the same thing, put the family under house arrest, then the next time only the men, then the next time only the women . . . And this goes on for months at a time, with no explanation or compensation. I only wish more reports like this made it into American (and Canadian news), there is (thankfully) no shortage of reports on how terrible a suicide blast is to remind us of the reality of the situation. However we almost never hear mainstream news reporting on what life is like under the occupation, and how fanatical many West Bank settlers are. And that is why I think we have so many people who have this sort of blind-faith in Israel, and unconditionally support most of it's policies. They are simply not properly informed as to what happens in the West Bank. Yeah, I want to be properly informed like those folks on the streets going "Free, free Palestine!" and talking about 1967 borders yet unable to describe what happened in the Six Day War...or who owned Gaza back then. ---------------------------------------------------- Lisa: Lenny...Carl....are you guys Buddhists? Carl: Oh, yeah! If I didn't have inner peace, I'd go completely psyco on all you guys all the time. ---The Simpsons Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WIP Posted February 2, 2009 Report Share Posted February 2, 2009 the settlements. the big nasty bear in the room that israeli apologists refuse to acknowledge as one of the major problems in this conflict. Could you explain to me why the rocket attacks and tunnel-digging is being done from Gaza? I thought the removal of Israeli settlements was supposed to bring peace. If it doesn't bring peace to Gaza, why should it bring peace to the West Bank? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sharkman Posted February 2, 2009 Report Share Posted February 2, 2009 How nice for the UN to have come up with a study, but I think we all know whose side the UN is on, no surprise they manage to find Israel at fault for something. No word yet on what they're going to do about the illegal rocket attacks. They'll probably come up with a study saying Israel should give more land back from which hamas can then launch more attacks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JB Globe Posted February 2, 2009 Report Share Posted February 2, 2009 You have just contradicted yourself.....60 Minutes has done such pieces for years. As has PBS, CNN, BBC, and many others. I'm not saying such reports don't exist, I'm saying that they're rare in comparison to the amount of reporting that goes on detailing suicide bombings and profiling groups like Hamas. This is especially the case when you look at the 24-hour networks. You are making the assumption that it would make any difference. Generally, as one learns more about a subject their opinion on it either changes or evolves to become more precise and less vague - I think that applies here. "Properly informed" is your biased view. No, not really. Most people in general don't know much about Israel or Palestine other than reports of terror attacks and Israeli bombings. Case-in-point: most folks are shocked to find out that the majority of Israelis aren't religious, and that the IDF offers it's officers that are assigned to liason positions in the US a class on "what to do in a synagogue" because many of them have never set foot in one in Israel, and will most likely be invited to one while in the US. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JB Globe Posted February 2, 2009 Report Share Posted February 2, 2009 Yeah, I want to be properly informed like those folks on the streets going "Free, free Palestine!" and talking about 1967 borders yet unable to describe what happened in the Six Day War...or who owned Gaza back then. Question: do you support the Israeli occupation of Palestine? In what capacity? Also - if you do support it, why don't you want to know what the full reality of the policy you support is? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogOnPorch Posted February 2, 2009 Report Share Posted February 2, 2009 Question: do you support the Israeli occupation of Palestine? In what capacity? I support the destruction of Hamas. In my view, they are just Nazi vermin. How this is achieved isn't up to me. Also - if you do support it, why don't you want to know what the full reality of the policy you support is? The supporters of fascist terrorist groups like Hamas leaves a bad taste in my mouth. But it's a free country. Support who you wish...right? ----------------------------------------------------------- Europa kann nicht eher zur Ruhe kommen, bevor die judische Frage ausgeraumt ist. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
myata Posted February 3, 2009 Report Share Posted February 3, 2009 C'mon people, don't be naive now! All this high level rattle about some "law" is only for the weak of mind (Jabba). Aka somebody wants something from you and they're telling you why they're right and you're wrong. Doesn't (necessarily.. or ever?) work the other way around. And yes, if in doubt they'll get stronger (highly explosive) arguments. When was the last time that "law" stopped us from doing something we wanted (really bad)? WMD anybody? Ballistic missiles? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JB Globe Posted February 5, 2009 Report Share Posted February 5, 2009 I support the destruction of Hamas. In my view, they are just Nazi vermin. How this is achieved isn't up to me. That isn't what I asked you, I asked you if you support the Occupation of Palestine. Am I to assume that you believe the occupation contributes to the destruction of Hamas? If yes, how so? The supporters of fascist terrorist groups like Hamas leaves a bad taste in my mouth. But it's a free country. Support who you wish...right? Again, that's not what I asked you, why are you dodging these questions? I asked you don't you want to know the full reality of policies you support? If you support the occupation for example - don't you want to know what the reality of occupation is for everyone involved? Including both Israelis and Palestinians? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogOnPorch Posted February 5, 2009 Report Share Posted February 5, 2009 That isn't what I asked you, I asked you if you support the Occupation of Palestine. Am I to assume that you believe the occupation contributes to the destruction of Hamas? If yes, how so? Again...how the destruction of Hamas is conducted is not up to me. But, I fully support their destruction. Again, that's not what I asked you, why are you dodging these questions?I asked you don't you want to know the full reality of policies you support? If you support the occupation for example - don't you want to know what the reality of occupation is for everyone involved? Including both Israelis and Palestinians? I'm not obligated to answer you by any means. That being said, my opinion on the "realities of occupation" no doubt are different from your "realities of occupation". --------------------------------------------------- A man is a success if he gets up in the morning and gets to bed at night, and in between he does what he wants to do. ---Bob Dylan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GostHacked Posted February 5, 2009 Report Share Posted February 5, 2009 DogonPorch From your wiki Israelis supportive of settlement respond that they are religiously justified in owning the land. Furthermore, the Israel Foreign Ministry asserts that some settlements are legitimate, as they took shape when there was no operative diplomatic arrangement, and thus they did not violate any agreement.[26][27][28] Based on this, they assert the following specific reasons for accepting settlements as legitimate: Religiously justified?? When you come from this angle you have nothing to present or reporesent. Religiously justified while at the same time saying that asserting only some of the 'legitimate' settlements. This does not sound right in my brian... wonder how it sounds in yours. That being said, my opinion on the "realities of occupation" no doubt are different from your "realities of occupation". And people say I do to many drugs.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogOnPorch Posted February 5, 2009 Report Share Posted February 5, 2009 DogonPorchFrom your wiki Religiously justified?? When you come from this angle you have nothing to present or reporesent. Religiously justified while at the same time saying that asserting only some of the 'legitimate' settlements. This does not sound right in my brian... wonder how it sounds in yours. And people say I do to many drugs.. 1. It's not 'my wiki'. 2. Some settlements were created while a state of war existed between Israel and Jordan. These are the ones I'm refering too. 3. Re: Drugs. I don't attack you personally yet you attack me. Why? ----------------------------------------- It's a Daisy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GostHacked Posted February 5, 2009 Report Share Posted February 5, 2009 1. It's not 'my wiki'.2. Some settlements were created while a state of war existed between Israel and Jordan. These are the ones I'm refering too. 3. Re: Drugs. I don't attack you personally yet you attack me. Why? ----------------------------------------- It's a Daisy. Maybe this is the problem where people think they are constantly being attacked and always has to go on the offensive to be defensive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted February 6, 2009 Report Share Posted February 6, 2009 Maybe this is the problem where people think they are constantly being attacked and always has to go on the offensive to be defensive. No...you made the drug reference without any provocation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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